I'll let one of our engineers answer in more detail, but all locomotives use the same 27-pin jumper cable for m.u.ing. It doesn't matter who built them, they will work together, to some degree.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRRI'll let one of our engineers answer in more detail, but all locomotives use the same 27-pin jumper cable for m.u.ing. It doesn't matter who built them, they will work together, to some degree.
All of our locomotives (all vintage) will run together, although I'm not sure what the arrangement is for the RS-3 with manual transition. We've got EMD's and ALCOs.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
You're lucky you don't have any vintage Baldwins with air throttles and related MU system. They won't MU with anything except their own kind.
CSSHEGEWISCHYou're lucky you don't have any vintage Baldwins with air throttles and related MU system. They won't MU with anything except their own kind.
Their own kind are communing with the dinosaurs.
I think I recall one carrier that revised the Baldwin control system so that their Baldwin's could be MU'd with the carriers other power - I may be mistaken.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDI think I recall one carrier that revised the Baldwin control system so that their Baldwin's could be MU'd with the carriers other power - I may be mistaken.
You'd be correct. I believe Baldwin would also build you a locomotive compatible with eight-notch electric MU if you wanted.
Overmod BaltACD I think I recall one carrier that revised the Baldwin control system so that their Baldwin's could be MU'd with the carriers other power - I may be mistaken. You'd be correct. I believe Baldwin would also build you a locomotive compatible with eight-notch electric MU if you wanted.
BaltACD I think I recall one carrier that revised the Baldwin control system so that their Baldwin's could be MU'd with the carriers other power - I may be mistaken.
Quite true. There's photos of Erie Baldwins MU'd with ALCOs and EMD's.
And if I remember correctly, Baldwin sold a MU adaptor kit as well, just in case you found out you needed one after all.
steve-in-kville if two locomotives are at the head of a train, one is an EMD and the other a GE, must they be "calibrated" to work together? Due to the different make/model, won't one pull harder? Are the throttle notches universal?
There is more to this: different locomotives do pull differently, and in some cases, for example if they have very different traction-motor gearing, they develop very different TE at a particular speed. This is only "important" when running them together in that both the low-speed instantaneous and hourly equivalents and the permissible 'top speed' will be limited to what the 'least capable' of any unit in the consist can exert. It may seem unusual that, say, a switcher and a large road unit can be MUed together, but each will be exerting its proportional TE at a given commanded notch. The train will accelerate to a 'balancing' speed determined by available power against train resistance, and the speed will then vary up and down with 'terrain' and environment if the engineer doesn't adjust it by going to a different notch or using the brake. Notches control output power, not road speed directly.
A more significant distinction is difference in loading speed -- the locomotive equivalent of acceleration. Some GEs in particular are painfully slow to speed up the diesel engine and apply electrical load to it, and what you then see is a relative pulling or bumping of units in the consist (Trains has commented at least once on the phenomenon) as the fast-loading units develop more TE than the slower.
While we are on the subject of GEs, some of them went to a 15-notch throttle (giving finer gradation when running, closer to what a Baldwin could do with its stepless proportional air throttle). When running in MU, only the nearest 8-notch equivalent would be sent, and if running in trail only the 'corresponding' eight notches would be recognized.
OvermodA more significant distinction is difference in loading speed -- the locomotive equivalent of acceleration. Some GEs in particular are painfully slow to speed up the diesel engine and apply electrical load to it, and what you then see is a relative pulling or bumping of units in the consist
Even the brand of governor can make a difference. Our two RS18u's have different governors - one GE, one Woodward. I can never remember which unit has which brand, but I do know that when I notch up one, it's a nice, smooth increase in RPMs. The other, however, responds to an increase in the throttle with a "snort" and it's off to the races...
steve-in-kvilleI'm trying to wrap my head around the term "stringlining." Is when the train isn't kept tight and the car's couplers start rattle? I've heard the term "jack knifing" as well. Please explain.
It's when a train is underway on a curve, and some of the train tries to take the "direct route." That is, it tries to cut off part of the curve. It takes what sailors would call the rhumb line, the shortest distance between two points.
Imagine if you picked a spot on the track and attached one end of a string to that point. Then further along the curve, you pulled the string tight, then attached the other end. The string will not follow the track; it will cut staight across the ground on the inside of the curve.
Now imagine if a part of train tries to go this route. This can happen if there is a group of light cars located between two sets of heavy cars. Those light cars try to take the "string line." And of course they derail.
Lithonia OperatorImagine if you picked a spot on the track and attached one end of a string to that point. Then further along the curve, you pulled the string tight, then attached the other end. The string will not follow the track; it will cut staight across the ground on the inside of the curve.
Just lay a length of string out on a table in an arc, then pull on the ends.
If you're a model railroader, put a train on a curve and pull on two end cars.
Regards - Steve
Usually a signpost with a "W" on it. There are variations. Google "whistle post" for plenty of examples.
For some reason, they pulled all the whistle boards on our line - so we simply have to know the line and the crossings.
The whistle posts will be spaced out from the crossings based on the normal max speed for that line, up to a quarter mile away.
tree68 For some reason, they pulled all the whistle boards on our line - so we simply have to know the line and the crossings.
What is your line? I suspect that you have told us somewhere along the way, but I missed it?
or an "X" (MoP) or the whistle Morse symbol (Sou) - - . - vertically
Tree: sure that W (as in Wham!) wasn't a victim of snowmobilers?
JPS1What is your line?
One section of the Adirondack Scenic, no?
And yes, I'd think a significant part of the reason, perhaps "the" reason, to remove whistle posts would be for the snowmobilers who use part of the line exclusively in the wintertime.
Overmod JPS1 What is your line? One section of the Adirondack Scenic, no? And yes, I'd think a significant part of the reason, perhaps "the" reason, to remove whistle posts would be for the snowmobilers who use part of the line exclusively in the wintertime.
JPS1 What is your line?
Can't have those snowmobilers smacking into whistle posts, can we?
Although, how can you NOT see a whistle post? Distracted snowmobiling? Texting while snomobliling? DWI snowmobiling? I guess anything's possible.
Even one reason a snowmobiler smacks into a lineside obstacle is a bad one. Momentary loss of control from something 'hidden' on the ROW is a logical one ... as is leaving the ROW in the 'cloud' from a sled immediately preceding.
Considering the absence of real need to keep whistle posts on this line, I'd say it made sense to remove them. The alternative would be to provide some kind of removable base or bracket, take them down at the beginning of sled season, and replace them as you check the track in spring ... but I'd think that would have been done if desirable. In my opinion making them 'breakaway' or putting them on springs like some of those temporary highway signs is not a particularly 'good answer'.
mudchicken or an "X" (MoP) or the whistle Morse symbol (Sou) - - . - vertically Tree: sure that W (as in Wham!) wasn't a victim of snowmobilers?
Back in the forties, I noticed a really old Southern sign in my home town--it had a long, a long, and two shorts on it. I was never around as a train approached, but I do not doubt that the engineer blew the then required two longs, a short and a long.
The last blast being a short used to be the standard, but apparently it was realized that prolonging the last blast until the engine reached the crossing was a good idea. Of course, when you are running fast through a town with two or more crossings close together, there is not enough time to give a proper signal for each crossing. I noticed this when I rode the engine of IC #1 from Memphis to Grenada 54 years ago--I simply used the last blast for one crossing as the first blast for the next crossing, and the engineer did not correct me.
The first signs with a "W" on them I remember seeing were on the T&P in Louisiana, in 1951. Since, I have seen far more simple signs than those which indicated what is to be blown--the only ones that indicated the signal that I remember were the Soo signs going into Chicago from Antioch and, I think, on the ACL's main line in North Carolina. Neither one was as big and bold as the Southern's.
Also on the Southern, the nice cast metal mileposts are being replaced with sheet metal signs. Why replace perfectly good posts?
Johnny
DeggestyAlso on the Southern, the nice cast metal mileposts are being replaced with sheet metal signs. Why replace perfectly good posts?
I can think of a couple of possibilities:
(1) easier to replace or maintain, using standard sign standards and hardware, especially considering the size and weight of a 'replacement' cast post and the need for a foundation for it.
(2) aren't the new ones reflective?
Johnny, those Southern whistle posts (long-long-short-short) must have been ancient! To my knowledge the standard grade crossing warning used now (long-long-short-long) has been in use for at least 100 years.
Wayne
Flintlock76To my knowledge the standard grade crossing warning used now (long-long-short-long) has been in use for at least 100 years.
Just about exactly. Apparently rule 14L began to be revised sometime in the 'teens by what I suspect was the American Railway Association. An old post on Trainorders contained this:
> It's the letter "Q" in Morse Code... It hasn't always been that way.My 1913 Omaha rulebook specifies Rule 13(L) (Yes 13(L)) as _ _.. "Approaching public crossings at grade. To be prolonged or repeated until crossing is reached."My 1917 Chicago, Milwaukee and St Paul book also says _ _ .. Note, this is 14(L) in this rulebook.My 1922 American Railroad Association recommendations also specifies 14(L) as _ _ ..I have a gap in my texts until 1939 when the Consolidated Code specified _ _ . _ for 14(L).Sometime, between 1922 and 1939, it changed from _ _ .. to _ _ . _I'm not sure exactly when it was changed, but I suspect it was because engineers were prolonging the last blast 'till they reached the crossing and the rule might have been changed to make reality legal.
It hasn't always been that way.My 1913 Omaha rulebook specifies Rule 13(L) (Yes 13(L)) as _ _.. "Approaching public crossings at grade. To be prolonged or repeated until crossing is reached."My 1917 Chicago, Milwaukee and St Paul book also says _ _ .. Note, this is 14(L) in this rulebook.My 1922 American Railroad Association recommendations also specifies 14(L) as _ _ ..I have a gap in my texts until 1939 when the Consolidated Code specified _ _ . _ for 14(L).Sometime, between 1922 and 1939, it changed from _ _ .. to _ _ . _I'm not sure exactly when it was changed, but I suspect it was because engineers were prolonging the last blast 'till they reached the crossing and the rule might have been changed to make reality legal.
Overmod Deggesty Also on the Southern, the nice cast metal mileposts are being replaced with sheet metal signs. Why replace perfectly good posts? I can think of a couple of possibilities: (1) easier to replace or maintain, using standard sign standards and hardware, especially considering the size and weight of a 'replacement' cast post and the need for a foundation for it. (2) aren't the new ones reflective?
Deggesty Also on the Southern, the nice cast metal mileposts are being replaced with sheet metal signs. Why replace perfectly good posts?
Third reason - Computer aided Dispatching as well as PTC require uniquely defined milepost designations - UNIQUE - such that the same milepost designation CANNOT exist on another railroad. This requirement has been implemented by having each 'line' have a 3 character prefix in addition to whatever numerical mile designation the line may actually have. On CSX the former ACL line to Jacksonville has the 'A' designation; with Richmond being MP 'A 0' and Jacksonville being 'A 640'. Each separated subdivision will have its own prefix which may be alpha, alpha numerical or numerical.
In some cases, subdivisions that may have been 'stand alone' entities, may be tied into other subdivisions for whatever purpose the owning carrier sees fit, thus changing its basis for numbering the miles and requiring changed mile posts.
In the CSX scheme, Fallen Flag ownership sets the pattern for the prefix - A = Atlantica Coast Line, B = B&O, C = C&O, 000 = L&N, S = Seaboard Airline; with many others for each of the prior fallen flag carriers that have been incorporated into CSX. Other Carriers have their own systems for identifying their mileposts.
Wow - busy thread!
It is the Adirondack, which becomes a snowmobile trail on December 1 each year, snow or no.
I don't know if the sleds were behind the decision (above my pay grade), but the old "historical" whistle posts, which are concrete, are still there, as are the mileposts, which range from fencepost with a sign, through wood plank (sometimes supported by old rail), to concrete.
The sledders value the corridor because of the relatively gentle curves and minimal (for snowmobilers) grades. Unfortunately, alcohol does enter the picture. One sledder managed to launch his machine into a tree, well above ground level. It wasn't along the tracks, but... He died.
As a side note - where they exist, the old concrete whistleposts are spaced for the 50 MPH the Central once ran on the line.
Milepost prefixes: The CSX St Lawrence Division is "QM", and the Water Level (Chicago) line is "QC." The shortline out of Utica still uses the "U" from ages ago, and on the Adirondack Division the milepost prefix is "H", for Herkimer, which is where the line originally began.
tree68I don't know if the sleds were behind the decision (above my pay grade), but the old "historical" whistle posts, which are concrete, are still there, as are the mileposts
Shoots down my theory, pretty much.
At times, there is confusion between the Morse code as was used in landline communication and the International Morse code, which is much better known now. The letter "Q" used in railroad communication was di di dah dit--not dah dah di dah. Thus, there is no connection between the original code and the whistle signal for a crossing.
And, as Overmod pointed out, the standard crosssing warning until about 100 years ago ended in two shorts--with perhaps the last short extended until the engine reached the crossing.
Also, coming into Washington by way of Cincinnati last spring, I noticed that the mileposts (until we reached Orange) were still the squared off concrete posts. Balt, is your former employer behind the times?
DeggestyAt times, there is confusion between the Morse code as was used in landline communication and the International Morse code, which is much better known now. The letter "Q" used in railroad communication was di di dah dit--not dah dah di dah. Thus, there is no connection between the original code and the whistle signal for a crossing. And, as Overmod pointed out, the standard crosssing warning until about 100 years ago ended in two shorts--with perhaps the last short extended until the engine reached the crossing. Also, coming into Washington by way of Cincinnati last spring, I noticed that the mileposts (until we reached Orange) were still the squared off concrete posts. Balt, is your former employer behind the times?
Since I have been retired for approaching 3 years I have no real understanding of how EHH and his disciples are dealing with the details of the operation. Remember in the days of PSR, expenditures to change the form of mileposts are not a high priority.
tree68 Overmod A more significant distinction is difference in loading speed -- the locomotive equivalent of acceleration. Some GEs in particular are painfully slow to speed up the diesel engine and apply electrical load to it, and what you then see is a relative pulling or bumping of units in the consist Even the brand of governor can make a difference. Our two RS18u's have different governors - one GE, one Woodward. I can never remember which unit has which brand, but I do know that when I notch up one, it's a nice, smooth increase in RPMs. The other, however, responds to an increase in the throttle with a "snort" and it's off to the races...
Overmod A more significant distinction is difference in loading speed -- the locomotive equivalent of acceleration. Some GEs in particular are painfully slow to speed up the diesel engine and apply electrical load to it, and what you then see is a relative pulling or bumping of units in the consist
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