Regards - Steve
steve-in-kvilleAnother train I've seen twice now.... small containers, two to a flatbed. Beaten, dented, rusty and some even had ducktaped patches on them. Please tell me their going to be scrapped and they are not in use. Always headed east.
Color of containers, container numbers, carrier on whose line the containers were seen?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Like these?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-05/train-hauling-10-million-pounds-new-york-excrement-stranded-alabama
or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yWQrWRW4dQ
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Short grey beat-up containers?
I've seen 'em come through here from time to time.
Sure sounds like a "poo-poo choo-choo" to me!
tree68 steve-in-kville There is always a hopper car at the beginning and the end. I'm guessing this is for safety/protection? Are they loaded with anything? Yes and yes. Hazmat regs require at least five non-hazmat cars between the hazmat and the locomotives on manifest consists. For unit trains, just one car is acceptable. They are usually loaded with sand or gravel - something to give them weight.
steve-in-kville There is always a hopper car at the beginning and the end. I'm guessing this is for safety/protection? Are they loaded with anything?
Yes and yes.
Hazmat regs require at least five non-hazmat cars between the hazmat and the locomotives on manifest consists. For unit trains, just one car is acceptable.
They are usually loaded with sand or gravel - something to give them weight.
The type of train is immaterial. It's the train's car consist that governs. For restricted loaded hazmat tank cars (there is some hazmat that has no restrictions, can go anywhere in the train) it's 5 buffer cars - train length permitting. If train length doesn't permit, use all available with a minimum of 1 car.
Train length as used can be somewhat misleading in that it doesn't reference footage or just the number of cars in a train. It means the entire car consist of a train. It could be 10 cars or 110 cars.
I'll grant you that a manifest, in most cases, will have more cars available to be used as buffer cars. However, if a manifest was made up of 4 non hazardous cars and 96 cars of hazardous, all hazardous of the same class and OK to be next to each other, it would be good to go with the 4 buffer cars.
On the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required.
Jeff
jeffhergertOn the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required. Jeff
When operating across CSX where manned helpers were being used - there would be a buffer car on each end. If a train from the West came with only a head end buffer car, then the helper crew would have to 'dig out' a car from the location where they would attach to the train to be the rear end buffer car. Many times trains requiring buffer cars would require them in both directions over the mountains, both loaded and empty trains needed manned helpers.
BaltACD jeffhergert On the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required. Jeff When operating across CSX where manned helpers were being used - there would be a buffer car on each end. If a train from the West came with only a head end buffer car, then the helper crew would have to 'dig out' a car from the location where they would attach to the train to be the rear end buffer car. Many times trains requiring buffer cars would require them in both directions over the mountains, both loaded and empty trains needed manned helpers.
jeffhergert On the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required. Jeff
Did/do they have a waiver to do that? I've heard before of that being done, but it isn't the way the CFR reads.
jeffhergertIf train length doesn't permit, use all available with a minimum of 1 car.
Our rules say if length doesn't permit 5 buffer cars between engines and placarded cars, then the dangerous cars must be "near the middle". That's why our unit oil/ethanol/whatever trains are allowed to have one buffer fore and aft.
I'm sure there's a yard where we interchange our stuff to you that has 45,000* extra buffer cars sitting in it.
*- my approximation
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann I'm sure there's a yard where we interchange our stuff to you that has 45,000* extra buffer cars sitting in it. *- my approximation
zugmann jeffhergert If train length doesn't permit, use all available with a minimum of 1 car. Our rules say if length doesn't permit 5 buffer cars between engines and placarded cars, then the dangerous cars must be "near the middle". That's why our unit oil/ethanol/whatever trains are allowed to have one buffer fore and aft. I'm sure there's a yard where we interchange our stuff to you that has 45,000* extra buffer cars sitting in it. *- my approximation
jeffhergert If train length doesn't permit, use all available with a minimum of 1 car.
Our rules use the same language, but that's assuming an occupied caboose in the entire verbiage. A buffer on the rear with less than 5 on the head end of a conventional loaded unit train triggers a placement error.
I can agree many times there are cars that could be used as buffer cars sitting around. It's just the law doesn't require them to go out of their way to add them to a train.
jeffhergert A buffer on the rear with less than 5 on the head end of a conventional loaded unit train triggers a placement error.
Then, again, I've seen some that have a single buffer at the front and none at the rear.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
jeffhergert BaltACD jeffhergert On the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required. Jeff When operating across CSX where manned helpers were being used - there would be a buffer car on each end. If a train from the West came with only a head end buffer car, then the helper crew would have to 'dig out' a car from the location where they would attach to the train to be the rear end buffer car. Many times trains requiring buffer cars would require them in both directions over the mountains, both loaded and empty trains needed manned helpers. Did/do they have a waiver to do that? I've heard before of that being done, but it isn't the way the CFR reads. Jeff
Have no idea about who has talked to who for waivers or anything else. Just know what I have seen on train consists when I was working and what I have seen on the Rochelle Web Cam going by on the BNSF 'tank' trains, be they oil or eathanol.
steve-in-kvilleHere's one I witnessed a few days ago: the dispatcher ordered speed restrictions as a train a few blocks ahead was behind switching out some cars. This is a level grade stretch of track. Is it easier to reduce throttle and allow the train to slow down gradually? Or start the braking process? The train had a good 9 miles, I think.
I though I saw Balt provide an answer to this question. Then I responded to something else on this thread. Where did those two posts go?
To answer this, it depends on where the slow is, what the speed is, the 'lay of the land' approaching it, and the type of train. Without using air brakes, you might be able to get close and then use some dynamics, you might even be able to just use throttle modulation. Or you might need to start slowing earlier.
For known restrictions, throttle modulation and using the grade is the preferred method, using dynamics is second, then using dynamics with some air brakes is third. Just using air brakes alone is frowned upon, but it seems not nearly as much as it once was. The reason is fuel effeciency.
There are some places that with some trains, you're better off to stretch/power brake (applying air brakes while the locomotives are still in power, pulling the train) through a restriction. I think those in charge finally realize this, as they have liberalized their definition (mainly what throttle notch you're in) of what constitutes power braking.
BaltACD jeffhergert BaltACD jeffhergert On the other hand, a loaded unit train (ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.) with engines all up front and two available buffer cars would have to have both up front. Empty cars and trains are different. For an empty hazmat tank car, only one buffer is required. Jeff When operating across CSX where manned helpers were being used - there would be a buffer car on each end. If a train from the West came with only a head end buffer car, then the helper crew would have to 'dig out' a car from the location where they would attach to the train to be the rear end buffer car. Many times trains requiring buffer cars would require them in both directions over the mountains, both loaded and empty trains needed manned helpers. Did/do they have a waiver to do that? I've heard before of that being done, but it isn't the way the CFR reads. Jeff Have no idea about who has talked to who for waivers or anything else. Just know what I have seen on train consists when I was working and what I have seen on the Rochelle Web Cam going by on the BNSF 'tank' trains, be they oil or eathanol.
After reading how Zug's carrier has them interpret the rule (placing HM near the middle/center of the train when there aren't the full requirement of buffer cars), one could argue that meets the law as written. The interpretation we are given is that center/middle only applies when there are helpers (manned or DP) or an occupied caboose at the rear.
I guess is that why we have lawyers. One set to write the rules, another to interpret what was written and how to apply it.
jeffhergertI guess is that why we have lawyers. One set to write the rules, another to interpret what was written and how to apply it.
Although sometimes you wonder if both are talking about the same thing...
jeffhergertI guess is that why we have lawyers. One set to write the rules, another to interpret what was written and how to apply it. Jeff
And both sets work to squeeze the operating employees in between.
Welcome to the world of railfanning and you have come to the right place to get info. I know the basics from being a lifelong fan growing up in a railroad family. But many on here can give you detailed info to questions.
Some random questions about the Horseshoe Curve live stream:
1- Two days in a row I've seen two tethered locomotives without a train head westbound. Where is their train?
2- Is the camera controlled by someone, or just follows motion?
3- How long have the derailed cars been laying aside the track? Are there plans to recover them?
Answer to the first question is that the locomotives may be a helper set deadheading to meet their next train.
At Horseshoe curve, wouldn't deadheading helper units be moving eastward?
Lithonia Operator At Horseshoe curve, wouldn't deadheading helper units be moving eastward?
Definately west. Saw the same thing yesterday when I was watching.
steve-in-kville Lithonia Operator At Horseshoe curve, wouldn't deadheading helper units be moving eastward? Definately west. Saw the same thing yesterday when I was watching.
One thing many people overlook about helpers. They don't only help trains upgrade. In many cases they are also needed for their additional braking power to get trains downgrade.
steve-in-kville Some random questions about the Horseshoe Curve live stream: 1- Two days in a row I've seen two tethered locomotives without a train head westbound. Where is their train?
steve-in-kville2- Is the camera controlled by someone, or just follows motion?
steve-in-kville3- How long have the derailed cars been laying aside the track? Are there plans to recover them?
Had several train watching sessions at my favorite hunting spot this past weekend. A few more questions:
1) Do the same horn regulations apply if the train is at a reduced speed? (i.e at crossings)
2) I heard the dispatcher say they had a train that couldn't be stopped or slowed and was warning a train a few blocks ahead that they "had 10 minutes to finish at a siding." Do certain trains have priority over others?
3) This one is petty, but I have all of NS's frequencies in my radio. The channel I hear everything on is labeled "track 3" even though we only have track 1 and 2. Why?
steve-in-kville Had several train watching sessions at my favorite hunting spot this past weekend. A few more questions: 1) Do the same horn regulations apply if the train is at a reduced speed? (i.e at crossings)
Yes - the rules are written both for speed and distance. The key one at lower speeds is that the warning must begin to be sounded 15-20 seconds before reaching the crossing. The exception is the distance portion - the warning is not to be started more that 1/4 mile away. A train will be clipping along pretty well to have to deal with that limitation.
steve-in-kville2) I heard the dispatcher say they had a train that couldn't be stopped or slowed and was warning a train a few blocks ahead that they "had 10 minutes to finish at a siding." Do certain trains have priority over others?
Yes - Railroads will sign contracts guaranteeing certain performance parameters for that customer. There are likely penalties if the promised times aren't met.
steve-in-kville3) This one is petty, but I have all of NS's frequencies in my radio. The channel I hear everything on is labeled "track 3" even though we only have track 1 and 2. Why?
Without seeing your reference for the frequencies, I would suspect that "track 3" is a label rather than a reference to specific tracks. Labels such as "Road 1," "Road 2," "Yard," "MOW," etc, are common. If you were to travel to another NS line you might well hear traffic on one of the other channels, or if there is the possibility of radio traffic on one channel interfering with radio traffic on another you'll hear the same thing.
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