JPS1 Shadow the Cats owner The Altoona based crew said the second we enter the curve it will derail all over the place ...were told to run it as is. Who in Altoona would have ignored the crew's warnings and told them to go as is? I was at the Curve last weekend.
Shadow the Cats owner The Altoona based crew said the second we enter the curve it will derail all over the place ...were told to run it as is.
Who in Altoona would have ignored the crew's warnings and told them to go as is?
I was at the Curve last weekend.
Why would the crew not have taken the safest course and refused to handle the train? Clearly, they knew the train would derail. "When in doubt, always take the safest course."
JPS1 What is a footboard yard master?
What is a footboard yard master?
Quoting Jeff: "Flatlanders have to worry about placement, too. Because the land isn't has flat as some think."
Well said, Jeff.
Johnny
When the yardmaster (or at many yards the footboard yardmaster) train sets a train or pick up in the computer, the computer is supposed to flag placement errors. I will agree that there are some car combinations that may meet requirements, but aren't are good idea.
Case in point was a manifest coming south out of Mason City. The outbound complained about the train make up. (I don't remember if there was a warning on it or not.) They were told to take it as is. They derailed about 10 or 15 miles south of Mason City.
Flatlanders have to worry about placement, too. Because the land isn't has flat as some think.
Jeff
zugmann BaltACD Or he may have been a 'old head' that new the right way to make up the train but had his authority overruled by Terminal Supervision that was following some dictum of NS's version of the PSR operating plan. I don't know if it had any bearing, but pre-blocking is all the rage with PSR operating plans. And those decisions go way above the yardmasters' pay grade. They even go above local terminal supervision.
BaltACD Or he may have been a 'old head' that new the right way to make up the train but had his authority overruled by Terminal Supervision that was following some dictum of NS's version of the PSR operating plan.
I don't know if it had any bearing, but pre-blocking is all the rage with PSR operating plans. And those decisions go way above the yardmasters' pay grade. They even go above local terminal supervision.
All of which goes back to my post about the difficulties a Yardmaster faces in 'trying' to put together a multi-block train while adhereing to all the other train handling/car placement restrictions that apply when operating through a geographically challenging territory.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Our yardmasters come from the T&E ranks as well, but many become yardmasters very early on (after a short period of time as a switchman or yard foreman, these folks like a regular shift for some reason...) and have little to no experience of how the trains they build will behave out on the road.
A great yardmaster is worth many times his/her weight in gold, but a bad one can bring the railroad to a standstill in minutes and never understand what they did (some also seem to forget that they too are union members and go on a power trip when "conversing" with crews).
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BaltACD cx500 But, but, but.... The yardmaster may have had a university degree so he "obviously" should be able to manage anything and was more qualified for the position than anyone who knew railroading realities! Or he may have been a 'old head' that new the right way to make up the train but had his authority overruled by Terminal Supervision that was following some dictum of NS's version of the PSR operating plan.
cx500 But, but, but.... The yardmaster may have had a university degree so he "obviously" should be able to manage anything and was more qualified for the position than anyone who knew railroading realities!
Or he may have been a 'old head' that new the right way to make up the train but had his authority overruled by Terminal Supervision that was following some dictum of NS's version of the PSR operating plan.
BaltACDOr he may have been a 'old head' that new the right way to make up the train but had his authority overruled by Terminal Supervision that was following some dictum of NS's version of the PSR operating plan.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
cx500But, but, but.... The yardmaster may have had a university degree so he "obviously" should be able to manage anything and was more qualified for the position than anyone who knew railroading realities!
Yardmasters in that area are from the T&E ranks.
Although lots of RRers have university degrees. Me being one of them. So, yeah...
But, but, but.... The yardmaster may have had a university degree so he "obviously" should be able to manage anything and was more qualified for the position than anyone who knew railroading realities!
Shadow the Cats ownerWell the NS yardmaster in Allentown sure as heck forgot that you can't put empty centerbeams in front of the loads of a train going around Horseshoe curve. That moron complying with PSR mandates put 5 empty centerbeams right behind the power of a westbound manifest train headed over Horseshoe curve. The Altoona based crew said the second we enter the curve it will derail all over the place to were told to run it as is. They stringlined the thing all over the curve took out 2 of the 3 tracks when the train derailed all over the freaking place. Trying to climb a hill with over 8K tons trailing empties with sharp curves the joys of PSR for the crews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdxlqAT2uE&feature=share
A situation 'flatlanders' never think of.
Well the NS yardmaster in Allentown sure as heck forgot that you can't put empty centerbeams in front of the loads of a train going around Horseshoe curve. That moron complying with PSR mandates put 5 empty centerbeams right behind the power of a westbound manifest train headed over Horseshoe curve. The Altoona based crew said the second we enter the curve it will derail all over the place to were told to run it as is. They stringlined the thing all over the curve took out 2 of the 3 tracks when the train derailed all over the freaking place. Trying to climb a hill with over 8K tons trailing empties with sharp curves the joys of PSR for the crews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdxlqAT2uE&feature=share
With all the restrictions that a Yardmaster faces in building a train, especially a multi block train it can be a maddening mental exercise.
Among the restrictions to be considered on a daily basis -
HAZMAT placementLong Car-Short Car placementTrailing tonnage behind long empty carsLocation of 30 or less consecutive empties and the number of loads that trail themHAZMAT placement in relation to a DPUPlacment of Clearance implacated carsPlacement of blocks of loaded cars within the train
and probably a dozen more restrictions I have forgotten since I retired.
A few years ago, a now retired conductor was telling me of a trip he made on a 135 car coal train. They were sent the short way over the Blair subdivision, something they didn't do too much with a train that size. They had a technician riding along collecting data on the operation. He had a laptop computer and was plugging in numbers, etc. Checking how actual operation compared to what was predicted to happen.
The conductor asked him how fast they would top Arlington hill. The tech did some checking and said they should top out at about 12 mph. They did top out around 12 mph. This was with the train configured with 2 engine up front and one in DP at the end. The conductor asked him if they would've had all 3 up front, how fast would they've topped the hill. The tech did some calculations. He said they would've topped the hill at about 3 mph, but would've broken a knuckle doing it.
Depending on traffic, we do from time to time take 2x1 coal trains like that the short way. Even with the DP, you still have to be careful going over the top. You can still break a knuckle if you aren't careful.
The article in the July 2019 issue of Trains has much discussion regarding the location of loads/empties combined with consideration of cushioned/friction drawbars. What was not mentioned was the effect of having large numbers of locomotives on the head end (as shown in the photo on page 36), regardless of any middle or end of train power.
I have run trains with large number of locomotives, and for me, the trains were quite difficult to run. With 1600+ tons (8 units) concentrated in only 600 feet, there is a strong tendency for all that weight to almost take on a life of their own regarding train handling.
A similar problem existed back when the CNW was sending 25-car blocks of ore jennies on the head end of manifest trains (usually ITPRA). The braking characteristics of the ore cars was vastly different from 'regular' freight cars--they took longer to set and longer to release; each condition made train handling with those cars quite the challenge. Even the best Engineers had problems, mostly getting knuckles right behind the ore block.
What made train handling more challenging on the above-mentioned train, was that the railroad frequently put blocks of loaded center-beam lumber cars on the rear end. And of course we didn't have dynamic brakes on our power until the SD40-2's came on line, and even then it was quite rare to have two units with dynamics (two was the minimum required in my territory to be considered sufficient for up to 10K tons considering the track profile).
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