Trains.com

Shortage of Truck Drivers - No Mention of Railroads

5716 views
82 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:22 PM

Backshop

 

 
zugmann

 

 
Backshop
They don't understand the old saying "you can either work hard when you're young or work hard when you're old".

 

Yeah, but we've all seen the guys that work hard their whole lives and drop over dead before retirement.

 

 

 

You're missing the meaning of the saying.  What it means is that you set yourself up for a career and work hard so that one day, you can retire.  I know plenty of people who seem proud of saying "I'm going to work until the day I die".  They will, too, because they never made plans for retirement.  It's always about today for them.

 

 

I think you missed Zugmann's point.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:33 PM

 

Firelock76

 zugmann:

BaltACD

"...Some say never turn your passion into a career..." Yeah Thumbs Up

"...I think true happiness lies somewhere in between..."

Firelock76 piosted: Winston Churchill said it best.  The advice he gave his kids on career choices went as follows...

"Do what you like, but LIKE what you do!"Thumbs UpThumbs UpWhistling

And all this talk about "young people nowadays..." reminds me of an article I read in a trade magazine not long ago.  The writer was a business owner who said something very interesting.  He said the young people he hires want to work, but they don't know how to work, so he has to train them in the "basics" before he can even start training them for the job.  Isn't that interesting?

Seems like someone's asleep at the switch out there.Whistling

                   To add some of my context to the Thread:  Went back to College after a 'short sabbatical' between Freshman and Sophmore years...[32 yrs as a commercial OTR tourist, etc.]   Graduated, and went looking for a job..Had about a year of 'excuses', why I could not do the jobs, I was interviewing for... So the wife and I started 'flipping houses', and I officially retired.    Now we are able to travel, and our schedules are our own.   I go to our local VA a couple of days a week as an unpaid employee.  I,too, feel for the current crop of millenials. Hopefully some day, they they will get it all together, and 'not have to work til they drop' .    Both BaltACD and Zugmann  have stated the wisdoms of their truths.  Many railroaders I have known, like others practicing their chosen work, work hard all their lives, and retire to sedentary lifestyles...and are unable to enjoy for long, the 'fruits' of their life labors.  Having hobbies, and other outside interests, is an imperative to being able to enjoy a long life, and retirement.Whistling

 

 


 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:07 PM

greyhounds

Well, there's this from the Chicago Tribune.  It's all about railroads.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-union-pacific-railroad-jobs-hiring-incentives-xxxx-20180619-story.html

 

 

The ones that have been hired and are training now were told in their classroom portion that they would be furloughed by the third quarter.  The bonus is paid in three increments.  The last being so many job starts after being set up.  To me, it's almost more of an incentive to come back after being furloghed.  If they don't fulfill the entire requirements, they have to pay back what they have been paid up to that point.  So after being cut-off for a year or more and the railroad recalls you (probably for a few weeks, just about the time you finish the refresher class) what do you do?  Do you leave the decent, stable job you found?  Or do you say no to the recall and now owe 6 or 7 grand to the UP?

We won't even go into management/employee relations at the field level.  Which, because you know what rolls down hill, is a reflection of their supervisor's attitude.  Many of those at both levels came out of the ranks.

Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad.  I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed.  Such as truck driving.

It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is.   And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either.

Jeff

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:40 PM

And it doesn't get any better after 30... 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:53 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich
About liking/loving one's work.. its a matter of personal choice: it ain't about the work itself.. it's all about one's attitude towards it..i.e. if you're a professor or a locomotive engineer or whatever,  you have the power within you to decide to love it or not.. it's all about your approach to it. 

 

Oh yeah,  try telling that gem to almost anyone under 30 or folks in many jobs with horrible conditions.  You'll get a mixture of derisive laughs and boos.

 

 

Better act fast then, after 30 you pretty much have what you have careerwise..so you may as well learn to like it. You're going to be doing this or something very much like it for another 35 years. Wink 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:02 PM

jeffhergert

 

 e 6 or 7 grand to the UP?

Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad.  I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed.  Such as truck driving.

It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is.   And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either.

Jeff

 

 

Most current employees won't recommend any employer.. they're all bad (at least in their estimation). From class 1 railroads to village libraries.. many employees are unhappy with their chosen lot.. 

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:18 PM

zugmann
BaltACD
Mostly because their ideal job has them doing nothing and getting paid hansomely to do it.

I'd be perfectly happy with that. 

Most of my job is sitting around doing nothing.  Wait for the taxi, wait for paperwork, wait for the Dispatcher to answer, wait for the signal...

And every so often I get to drive a train!  Life could be worse.

 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:23 PM

Ulrich
jeffhergert
 e 6 or 7 grand to the UP?

Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad.  I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed.  Such as truck driving.

It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is.   And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either.

Jeff

Most current employees won't recommend any employer.. they're all bad (at least in their estimation). From class 1 railroads to village libraries.. many employees are unhappy with their chosen lot.. 

Everyone likes to complain.  But the Class I railroads ARE a cut above when it comes to employee harassment and treating people as though they are disposable.

The word gets around, and it is tough to keep stuff under wraps in our modern age.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:32 PM

jeffhergert
Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad. I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed. Such as truck driving.

They pay you enough so you won't quit - but not enough so that you're happy. 

Is what it is.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 30, 2018 9:38 PM

Backshop
You're missing the meaning of the saying. What it means is that you set yourself up for a career and work hard so that one day, you can retire. I know plenty of people who seem proud of saying "I'm going to work until the day I die". They will, too, because they never made plans for retirement. It's always about today for them.

And once again, a lot of people pass away before they can retire (when they aren't even 60 years old yet).  Never know when your number is up - so find a happy medium.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 10:19 PM

Ulrich

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich
About liking/loving one's work.. its a matter of personal choice: it ain't about the work itself.. it's all about one's attitude towards it..i.e. if you're a professor or a locomotive engineer or whatever,  you have the power within you to decide to love it or not.. it's all about your approach to it. 

 

Oh yeah,  try telling that gem to almost anyone under 30 or folks in many jobs with horrible conditions.  You'll get a mixture of derisive laughs and boos.

 

 

 

 

Better act fast then, after 30 you pretty much have what you have careerwise..so you may as well learn to like it. You're going to be doing this or something very much like it for another 35 years. Wink 

 

 

Maybe in Canada.  Career change after 30 started becoming quite common 20 or more years ago.

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: KS
  • 999 posts
Posted by SFbrkmn on Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:18 AM
It is correct in that the carriers are having problems finding help to fill newly created positions. With the job market strong, folks are looking elsewhere for employment. As a selling point, some carriers have created bonus payments for taking on rr employment. This is up to around 15 grand. This is spmewhat of a catch: one has to agree to stay at their point of hire for the first five yrs and if one quits within that time, the money is required to be paid back. The rrs will never gain the jobs that are really needed out there. Just a sign of the times
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:28 AM

Apart from all the other minuses, there is the lifestyle requirements.  You will be expected to work on-call, working variable start times, every day of the week including weekends with no set days off for most assignments.  You will be drug and alcohol free when reporting for work and subject to random testing. 

Our culture seems to value work, especially work where you might get your hands dirty and break a sweat, less than in generations past.  In this day and age it's a wonder they get anyone at all.

Jeff

 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:41 AM

jeffhergert

Apart from all the other minuses, there is the lifestyle requirements.  You will be expected to work on-call, working variable start times, every day of the week including weekends with no set days off for most assignments.  You will be drug and alcohol free when reporting for work and subject to random testing. 

 

Jeff 

That's still better than being a long haul truck driver and being out on the road for 2+ weeks at a time.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:48 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich
About liking/loving one's work.. its a matter of personal choice: it ain't about the work itself.. it's all about one's attitude towards it..i.e. if you're a professor or a locomotive engineer or whatever,  you have the power within you to decide to love it or not.. it's all about your approach to it. 

 

Oh yeah,  try telling that gem to almost anyone under 30 or folks in many jobs with horrible conditions.  You'll get a mixture of derisive laughs and boos.

 

 

 

 

Better act fast then, after 30 you pretty much have what you have careerwise..so you may as well learn to like it. You're going to be doing this or something very much like it for another 35 years. Wink 

 

 

 

 

Maybe in Canada.  Career change after 30 started becoming quite common 20 or more years ago.

 

 

And much of the career change in the early years, and even today, was/is forced on people.  Now the mantra is that a person will change jobs and/or career paths multiple times over their working lifetime.  Condition people to accept being a disposable asset.  It's great for employers, but maybe not so great for those who are employees.

Jeff  

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:58 AM

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Sunday, July 1, 2018 11:10 AM

jeffhergert

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
Ulrich
About liking/loving one's work.. its a matter of personal choice: it ain't about the work itself.. it's all about one's attitude towards it..i.e. if you're a professor or a locomotive engineer or whatever,  you have the power within you to decide to love it or not.. it's all about your approach to it. 

 

Oh yeah,  try telling that gem to almost anyone under 30 or folks in many jobs with horrible conditions.  You'll get a mixture of derisive laughs and boos.

 

 

 

 

Better act fast then, after 30 you pretty much have what you have careerwise..so you may as well learn to like it. You're going to be doing this or something very much like it for another 35 years. Wink 

 

 

 

 

Maybe in Canada.  Career change after 30 started becoming quite common 20 or more years ago.

 

 

 

 

And much of the career change in the early years, and even today, was/is forced on people.  Now the mantra is that a person will change jobs and/or career paths multiple times over their working lifetime.  Condition people to accept being a disposable asset.  It's great for employers, but maybe not so great for those who are employees.

Jeff  

 

 

 

And the career change is almost always "lateral" or downward.. rarely upward unless you're in the management groove where advancement is required. Think about it a for a minute: when you're 40 or 50 and starting on a new career path you're competing with others your age who are vastly more experienced.  Let's say I hired out as a novice conductor today.. lots of people my age would have 20  or 30 years on the job while I'm just learning the ropes. I don't know how much difference that would make on the railroad, but I'm guessing it matters.. And likewise with many careers.. not that hard to switch horses midrace.. but.. you'll likely be swapping your stalion for a mule. Rarely happens the other way 'round..

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 1, 2018 11:22 AM

Ulrich
And the career change is almost always "lateral" or downward.. rarely upward unless you're in the management groove where advancement is required. Think about it a for a minute: when you're 40 or 50 and starting on a new career path you're competing with others your age who are vastly more experienced.  Let's say I hired out as a novice conductor today.. lots of people my age would have 20  or 30 years on the job while I'm just learning the ropes. I don't know how much difference that would make on the railroad, but I'm guessing it matters.. And likewise with many careers.. not that hard to switch horses midrace.. but.. you'll likely be swapping your stalion for a mule. Rarely happens the other way 'round..

Likewise employers are not willing to hand out higher compensation levels for 'newbies' coming into a work classification than those already there - more likely the 'newbie' will be paid much less account the 'newbie' status without regard to age.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:13 PM

Phoebe Vet

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

 

It is in the best interest of those currently in power that the citizens stay distracted from what is really happening in "our" government, by getting people focused on imaginary (or at best, contrived) problems and by keeping people afraid of "others".

Sure would be nice if we could accept our differences and focus on our similarities. We're all humans on this third rock from the sun, and the only way we will survive is by working together.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:46 PM

Phoebe Vet

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

 

I keep looking and asking online but can't get an answer on how much it costs to become an American citizen these days.  I bet it's more than working class people have in disposable income.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:13 PM

Phoebe Vet

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

I would opine that's because some of them are invaders, not hard workers here to earn an honest dollar.

The problem comes in separating the wheat from the chaff.  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:59 PM

The driver shortage is driving up the cost of motor freight. At what % difference in cost will shipping by rail become attractive for non ultra time sensitive freight?

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, July 1, 2018 8:53 PM

BaltACD
Likewise employers are not willing to hand out higher compensation levels for 'newbies' coming into a work classification than those already there - more likely the 'newbie' will be paid much less account the 'newbie' status without regard to age.

Balt, You earlier answered my question about the CSX's dispatcher relocation policies. Now my question is about where do RR's obtain dispatcher candiates. My recolection was that some came from the tower operators and some came from engineers or similar people who had some operating experience. Today when conductors are an almost entry level job, what are the "prerequisites" to become a disptcher?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:02 PM

This may be an aside. In the early sixties, I knew an IC agent operator in South Mississippi who, after I moved to another place, was promoted to dispatcher, and had to move to Chicago. I do not know how long he lasted there, but he was not happy and, I believe, went back to being a dispatcher. 

Johnny

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:08 PM

zardoz

 

 
Phoebe Vet

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

 

 

 

It is in the best interest of those currently in power that the citizens stay distracted from what is really happening in "our" government, by getting people focused on imaginary (or at best, contrived) problems and by keeping people afraid of "others".

 

Sure would be nice if we could accept our differences and focus on our similarities. We're all humans on this third rock from the sun, and the only way we will survive is by working together.

 

You both have that right.  It's a huge distraction from what is really happening.  As they say, "Follow the money."

With all the focus on "illegal aliens" what about the many employers who break the laws about employing them?  Very few arrests there, much less sending them to detention centers.

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:14 PM

jeffhergert
And much of the career change in the early years, and even today, was/is forced on people.  Now the mantra is that a person will change jobs and/or career paths multiple times over their working lifetime.  Condition people to accept being a disposable asset.  It's great for employers, but maybe not so great for those who are employees. Jeff  

Jeff, I have a question that I hope you can enlighten me on. The articles like the Tribune where they quote wages for engineers and conductors as being $60,000.00/yr or what ever make me curious. Whien I worked for the PRR in college in the '50s engineers and operating employees had a milage based "day" and they were paid by the run. When they were furloughed, they got nothing. And today, with the railroads short help, some crews have runs almost as soon as their sleep time is up but during traffic slowdowns, a crew might wait a day or more between runs. So my question is: How variable is a crewpersons pay with traffic? Is there a floor to the contract that kicks in if traffic is low? Or are they "day labor"? Here in Chicago, I talk to BNSF conductors that are working Metra runs which it seems they like because they get home every night. But they have talked about working freight to Savana, and waiting for a run back to Chicago with an indeterminate wait while the higher seniority crews man run-through trains. I am courious as to what effect that has on the amount of earnings they make?

Thanks.

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:16 PM

Deggesty

This may be an aside. In the early sixties, I knew an IC agent operator in South Mississippi who, after I moved to another place, was promoted to dispatcher, and had to move to Chicago. I do not know how long he lasted there, but he was not happy and, I believe, went back to being a dispatcher. 

 

Do you mean ...went back to being an operator?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:29 PM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
Deggesty

This may be an aside. In the early sixties, I knew an IC agent operator in South Mississippi who, after I moved to another place, was promoted to dispatcher, and had to move to Chicago. I do not know how long he lasted there, but he was not happy and, I believe, went back to being a dispatcher. 

 

 

 

Do you mean ...went back to being an operator?

 

Whoops!! Yes.

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 1, 2018 10:12 PM

Deggesty
 
Electroliner 1935
 
Deggesty

This may be an aside. In the early sixties, I knew an IC agent operator in South Mississippi who, after I moved to another place, was promoted to dispatcher, and had to move to Chicago. I do not know how long he lasted there, but he was not happy and, I believe, went back to being a dispatcher.  

Do you mean ...went back to being an operator? 

Whoops!! Yes.

Being a Train Dispatcher is not for everybody.  I have seen many that go through the training and OJT and become qualified on the number of jobs required and then either quit the company entirely or go back on the seniority on the craft they previously worked.  Location of the office may or may not play a part in these decisions as some were required to move to become a Dispatcher and some weren't.  

Dispatching is a stressful form of employment as you are trying to accomplish many successful outcomes, perform you job functions within the Rule Book and the CADS computer system.  Deal with the conflicting time requests of MofW, Signals and Train Operations in managing 'your' territory.  Coordinating the operation of 'your' territory with fellow Dispatchers of adjoining territories.  One minute your territory is running like a Swiss watch - the next second the main spring has broken out of the movement and you have to scramble to formulate additional plans to account for the problem and keep the territory moving.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • From: Northern Florida
  • 1,429 posts
Posted by SALfan on Sunday, July 1, 2018 11:23 PM

Backshop

 

 
Phoebe Vet

There are thousands of people who are willing to work hard, but we keep rounding them up and throwing them out of OUR country.  They are people who would be working and paying into Medicare and Social Security but for some reason we call them invaders.

 

 

 

I keep looking and asking online but can't get an answer on how much it costs to become an American citizen these days.  I bet it's more than working class people have in disposable income.

 

 

The citizenship process is long and involved and expensive (I don't know how expensive).  My wife used to work for a law firm that did pro bono work helping people go thru the process, and from her description the process cries out for simplification and streamlining.  Without getting into politics, it should be as quick and painless as it can be to become a citizen while still doing the necessary checks to weed out the bad apples.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy