DeggestyThis may be an aside. In the early sixties, I knew an IC agent operator in South Mississippi who, after I moved to another place, was promoted to dispatcher, and had to move to Chicago. I do not know how long he lasted there, but he was not happy and, I believe, went back to being a dispatcher.
True story about an IC(G) dispatcher moved in to Chicago from out of town.
This guy was from southern Illinois and by rights he should have been a Cardinals fan. But he wasn't. He was Cubs fanatic.
So it's the 4th of July and we marketing types had the day off. The Cubs were playing a home double header, but this particular DS had to work as the railroad didn't shut down. Everything was going smooth so he ditched work and went up to Wrigley Field.
About a half hour after he left a grain train went sideways across the Main Line of Mid America. But he was at a baseball game.
He was really upset that the Cubs got blown out in the first game. And he was ragging on the umpires to no end from a seat where they could hear him. Eventually, the home plate umpire had had enough. He ordered the dispatcher removed from the stadium.
Talk about a bad day for a dispatcher! He did not loose his job for going to the game. But I'm sure he heard about it.
True story!
SALfanThe citizenship process is long and involved and expensive (I don't know how expensive). My wife used to work for a law firm that did pro bono work helping people go thru the process, and from her description the process cries out for simplification and streamlining. Without getting into politics, it should be as quick and painless as it can be to become a citizen while still doing the necessary checks to weed out the bad apples.
Daniel Saurez working (and paying) to get Green Card
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/07/01/daniel-suarez-details-long-expensive-process-to-obtain-u-s-residency/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
When I lived in Mississippi, the Louisiana Division dispatcher was in Vicksburg. Sometime after I moved to Alabam, in 1965, the dispatchers were moved to Chicago.
From time to time, when visiting my friend at the station, I would listen in on the dispatcher's wire--and the day dispatcher sounded tired. The operators always addressed him as "Mr. Reilly."
Johnny
BaltACD SALfan The citizenship process is long and involved and expensive (I don't know how expensive). My wife used to work for a law firm that did pro bono work helping people go thru the process, and from her description the process cries out for simplification and streamlining. Without getting into politics, it should be as quick and painless as it can be to become a citizen while still doing the necessary checks to weed out the bad apples. Daniel Saurez working (and paying) to get Green Card https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/07/01/daniel-suarez-details-long-expensive-process-to-obtain-u-s-residency/
SALfan The citizenship process is long and involved and expensive (I don't know how expensive). My wife used to work for a law firm that did pro bono work helping people go thru the process, and from her description the process cries out for simplification and streamlining. Without getting into politics, it should be as quick and painless as it can be to become a citizen while still doing the necessary checks to weed out the bad apples.
I found this site: https://www.gjenvick.com/Immigration/ImmigrantTickets/index.html
In 1880, for one adult, Cardiff, Wales to Scranton, PA (coal miner?) in steerage on the White Star Line (later operated the Titantic), ticket was $32.00 ($752.00 in 2013 money using the CPI).
In 1883, for a family of five (2 adults 3 kids), Bremen to NY in steerage on North German Lloyd, the ticket was $72.00, (about $1730 in 2013 money) . Not a trivial expense, but pretty cheap.
Here's the official skinny:
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/educators/naturalization-information
To start the process, you must have a green card:
https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/green-card-processes-procedures
It's not free. A search on the cost of a green card yielded this:
This fee is currently (in 2018) $85. For the latest adjustment of status application and biometrics fees, go to the USCIS Web page about Form I-485. You'll see a chart explaining what fees to pay, depending on your age and reason for applying. The total is usually over $1,000.
A search on the cost of naturalization yielded this:
The current filing fee (cost) for Form N-400, the Application for Naturalization costs $725 (updated-2018). This includes the $640 citizenship application fees and the $85 background check cost, also known as the biometric fee.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Can you imagine what it would be like to live here if states didn't honor each others driver's license and if you had to have a passport and go through a police checkpoint to move from state to state?
If you are worried about MS13, which incidentally was formed in the USA and contains many US citizens, when you arrest them treat the the same way you would treat ANY criminal. ...problem solved.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Electroliner 1935 jeffhergert And much of the career change in the early years, and even today, was/is forced on people. Now the mantra is that a person will change jobs and/or career paths multiple times over their working lifetime. Condition people to accept being a disposable asset. It's great for employers, but maybe not so great for those who are employees. Jeff Jeff, I have a question that I hope you can enlighten me on. The articles like the Tribune where they quote wages for engineers and conductors as being $60,000.00/yr or what ever make me curious. Whien I worked for the PRR in college in the '50s engineers and operating employees had a milage based "day" and they were paid by the run. When they were furloughed, they got nothing. And today, with the railroads short help, some crews have runs almost as soon as their sleep time is up but during traffic slowdowns, a crew might wait a day or more between runs. So my question is: How variable is a crewpersons pay with traffic? Is there a floor to the contract that kicks in if traffic is low? Or are they "day labor"? Here in Chicago, I talk to BNSF conductors that are working Metra runs which it seems they like because they get home every night. But they have talked about working freight to Savana, and waiting for a run back to Chicago with an indeterminate wait while the higher seniority crews man run-through trains. I am courious as to what effect that has on the amount of earnings they make? Thanks.
jeffhergert And much of the career change in the early years, and even today, was/is forced on people. Now the mantra is that a person will change jobs and/or career paths multiple times over their working lifetime. Condition people to accept being a disposable asset. It's great for employers, but maybe not so great for those who are employees. Jeff
Jeff, I have a question that I hope you can enlighten me on. The articles like the Tribune where they quote wages for engineers and conductors as being $60,000.00/yr or what ever make me curious. Whien I worked for the PRR in college in the '50s engineers and operating employees had a milage based "day" and they were paid by the run. When they were furloughed, they got nothing. And today, with the railroads short help, some crews have runs almost as soon as their sleep time is up but during traffic slowdowns, a crew might wait a day or more between runs. So my question is: How variable is a crewpersons pay with traffic? Is there a floor to the contract that kicks in if traffic is low? Or are they "day labor"? Here in Chicago, I talk to BNSF conductors that are working Metra runs which it seems they like because they get home every night. But they have talked about working freight to Savana, and waiting for a run back to Chicago with an indeterminate wait while the higher seniority crews man run-through trains. I am courious as to what effect that has on the amount of earnings they make?
Thanks.
Speaking of how things are in my corner of the world only. Other class ones, and even parts of my employer may be different. Provisions of contracts can out last the railroad that signed it. Parts of C&NW, CGW and M&StL contracts are still in force on UP. Non-union railroads will usually be way different.
Trainmen (conductors/switchmen/brakemen-where they still have them) have guarantees on just about every job and board I can think of. The rate of pay varies, with the switchmen's extra board usually being the lowest. (If required to be footboard qualified to hold it, it might be one of the higher guaranteed boards.)
Engineer's on some jobs (assigned local and yard) and extra boards have guarantees. Through freight pool boards do not. (Working the pool, I gauge my earnings against the extra board guarantee. I like to be close or over. There have been slow times when I'm under.) On the pool, I've worked on my rest or just a few hours over. Other times I've worked when we had 48 to 50 hours off.
Crews that are tied up at the away from home terminal go on what's called Held Away pay after 16 hours. Some places you go on held away for 8 hours, then back off pay for another 16 hours, then back on held away. Other places have continuous held away. (My highest paying single day on the railroad was having 17 hours of continuous held away and 12 hours of overtime. 8 hours of which was after being dead waiting for a ride. Plus pay for the trip.) Held away is an incentive to get crews home, either by working a train or deadheading.
Our pay is still based on miles, but we now have a set trip rate for most runs. It was supposed to wrap a bunch of other payments, some of which weren't available to post 1985 hires, into the trip rate. My assignment has two routes available to the away from home terminal. Straight out the "short way" is 161 miles. Taking the "long way" is 186 miles. The trip rate was supposed to average out the mileage, but the registered miles for either trip is now 161 miles. Usually we go out the short way and come home the long way. I lose 25 credited miles on a round trip like that. Those miles add up and are used for other purposes besides pay, like qualifying for vacation. I recently worked with a conductor who had spent time furloughed and missed qualifying for vacation by 140 miles.
Needless to say, when things are turning, guarantee or not, those that stay marked up can make money. Unless they run afoul of the time off requirement (48/72 hours) known has "FR" to us of the RSIA law of a few years ago.
Jeff
So do you think all these new hires will be furloughed when the recession caused by the Tariff trade war comes to pass? Or are there enough old timers wanting to retire to provide slots for them?
Electroliner 1935So do you think all these new hires will be furloughed when the recession caused by the Tariff trade war comes to pass? Or are there enough old timers wanting to retire to provide slots for them?
Can't speak for any other Seniority Roster other than the one I was a member of when I retired. #2 on the list had 10 years to be 60 (I don't think she will have 30 years service since she hired off the street in 2002). She would be able to retire when attaining 30 years service as she will be in excess of 60. Most of those under her on the roster were mostly people in the 20's and early 30's with plenty of time to work until retirement.
When you look at railroad seniority rosters you will find clumps and voids among the dates.
Our trainman's seniority roster has about a 13 or 14 year gap in it. When I hired out in 1998, it was about a 10 year gap. The last dates before the gap were from 1980 and were mostly former railroaders from the RI and MILW. There may have been some more hired in the early 1980s, but the economic slump back then, the move to eliminate one and then the second brakeman, took a toll on the numbers. There was a buyout, Carl and Zardoz may remember when and the details of it. The seniority roster starts again in the early 1990s and were mainly, at first, craft transfers into train service. (Some of those transfers and former RI/MILW men were finishing out their careers, widening the present gap.) Within a few years they were hiring more off the street than current employees transfering in. I was told that the reason they were hiring inexperienced people was that they wouldn't hire anyone that had previously worked for them and had taken a buyout.
As to the furloughs, I don't think it has anything to do with anticipated traffic levels. The fourth quarter is one where they seem to watch costs religiously. It's the last chance to fix any holes in a budget. It's more of a numbers game then the reality of what's required.
Good morning, friends. Please keep your comments on the topic of railroading. I'd be most grateful. Thank you and enjoy your weekends.
Ang
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
Angie - please keep your comments on the topic in question. Seniority rosters and shortage of acceptable employees are affecting most all industries, railroads included. I suspect Trains is also having issues finding properly qualified employees.
BaltACD Angie - please keep your comments on the topic in question. Seniority rosters and shortage of acceptable employees are affecting most all industries, railroads included. I suspect Trains is also having issues finding properly qualified employees.
Mr. BaltACD, I understand that. However, there are other comments that have gotten too political and I'm responding to those. The connection between railroads, trucking, and other industries is not lost on me.
My local truck/stop diner has more Russian/Ukranian truck drivers then before. They are nice people and happy to work here in the USA.
charlie hebdo I found this site: https://www.gjenvick.com/Immigration/ImmigrantTickets/index.html In 1880, for one adult, Cardiff, Wales to Scranton, PA (coal miner?) in steerage on the White Star Line (later operated the Titantic), ticket was $32.00 ($752.00 in 2013 money using the CPI). In 1883, for a family of five (2 adults 3 kids), Bremen to NY in steerage on North German Lloyd, the ticket was $72.00, (about $1730 in 2013 money) . Not a trivial expense, but pretty cheap.
SD70Dude Ulrich jeffhergert e 6 or 7 grand to the UP? Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad. I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed. Such as truck driving. It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is. And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either. Jeff Most current employees won't recommend any employer.. they're all bad (at least in their estimation). From class 1 railroads to village libraries.. many employees are unhappy with their chosen lot.. Everyone likes to complain. But the Class I railroads ARE a cut above when it comes to employee harassment and treating people as though they are disposable. The word gets around, and it is tough to keep stuff under wraps in our modern age.
Ulrich jeffhergert e 6 or 7 grand to the UP? Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad. I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed. Such as truck driving. It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is. And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either. Jeff Most current employees won't recommend any employer.. they're all bad (at least in their estimation). From class 1 railroads to village libraries.. many employees are unhappy with their chosen lot..
jeffhergert e 6 or 7 grand to the UP? Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad. I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed. Such as truck driving. It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is. And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either. Jeff
Most current employees won't recommend working for the railroad. I will with the proviso that you should have a skill where you can pick something up while furloughed. Such as truck driving.
It's hard for a company to get people to work for them when people know how the company is. And from what I've heard from others, it's not much better on the other class ones, either.
Most current employees won't recommend any employer.. they're all bad (at least in their estimation). From class 1 railroads to village libraries.. many employees are unhappy with their chosen lot..
Everyone likes to complain. But the Class I railroads ARE a cut above when it comes to employee harassment and treating people as though they are disposable.
The word gets around, and it is tough to keep stuff under wraps in our modern age.
No they are not anymore SD70. There are several mega carriers out there that have installed inward facing cameras on their trucks that record ever single thing that the driver does when he is in the truck including when they are in the sleeper portion of the truck. Then they get messages for not keeping 2 hands on the wheel daring to take a drink while driving for looking at a gauge wrong. We just hired a driver from Millis that had been fired for get this only sleeping 7.5 hours a night instead of their mandated 8. They ding their drivers for hitting the brakes to hard using to much go pedal trying to get up to speed using the Jake brakes to much. One driver we rescued from that abuse 2 years ago was fired for calling 911 from his bluetooth headset which is LEGAL when he came upon and accident and stopping to help the people out that where involved in the accident.
Look for more Fed Ex on the rails also. Why Covenant just bought out Landair one of the largest 3PL in the industry and their largest customer was Fed Ex and Covenant Transport has enough of a problem handling their own customers. Let alone the demands Fed Ex will place on them time wise.
Here is what some carriers are paying in bonus money for experienced drivers. US Express 40K for teams 20 for each member Nassbuam 7500 for solo drivers. tanker outfits are in the area of 10-15 grand each for the larger places. Why so much getting a driver with a clean MVR a good CSA score and one that has 2-3 years experience and knows what they are in for anymore is gold in this industry. 90% of the new drivers from the schools will be out of the industry in less than 2 years.
And then there's Swift and CR England... :(
Backshop And then there's Swift and CR England... :(
Around here they are considered lower than a BFE and lower even than Prime or Schiender when it comes to quality of drivers they train. Here is how freaking desperate those 2 carriers are for drivers. My husband that has epilepsy and lost his own Drivers license here in Illinois in 2009 from having a seizure while driving on a dare from my boss put in an online application in with CR England. They tried to hire him stating his lack of a valid DL due to Epilepsy was something they would work around once he reported to training school. He forwarded the entire email chain to the FMCSA and said look into their hiring practices please. If they were willing to hire someone with Seizures what else are the doing that is illegal.
Well, personal experience was $10k, just to get the green card. YMMV
tree68 Here's the official skinny: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/educators/naturalization-information To start the process, you must have a green card: https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/green-card-processes-procedures It's not free. A search on the cost of a green card yielded this: This fee is currently (in 2018) $85. For the latest adjustment of status application and biometrics fees, go to the USCIS Web page about Form I-485. You'll see a chart explaining what fees to pay, depending on your age and reason for applying. The total is usually over $1,000. A search on the cost of naturalization yielded this: The current filing fee (cost) for Form N-400, the Application for Naturalization costs $725 (updated-2018). This includes the $640 citizenship application fees and the $85 background check cost, also known as the biometric fee.
rrnut282Most of that went to lawyer's fees, of course.
Which does tend to say a lot...
Backshop jeffhergert Apart from all the other minuses, there is the lifestyle requirements. You will be expected to work on-call, working variable start times, every day of the week including weekends with no set days off for most assignments. You will be drug and alcohol free when reporting for work and subject to random testing. Jeff That's still better than being a long haul truck driver and being out on the road for 2+ weeks at a time.
jeffhergert Apart from all the other minuses, there is the lifestyle requirements. You will be expected to work on-call, working variable start times, every day of the week including weekends with no set days off for most assignments. You will be drug and alcohol free when reporting for work and subject to random testing. Jeff
Apart from all the other minuses, there is the lifestyle requirements. You will be expected to work on-call, working variable start times, every day of the week including weekends with no set days off for most assignments. You will be drug and alcohol free when reporting for work and subject to random testing.
That's still better than being a long haul truck driver and being out on the road for 2+ weeks at a time.
Long haul ISN'T where the money is at in trucking, Grocery and Foodservice pay very well, and usually only on the road a couple nights a week at most. My first 14 years driving were for a foodservice company.
In either part of the industry, you will expect/be expected to work most weekends and Holidays, but the schedules can be very consistent, often bidding schedules by seniority.
I have worked the last 16 years for a plant that produces foam products, the first 14 as a company driver(the Best years of my career, for satisfaction) unfortunately, the company sold the plant to another company, who doesn't have their own trucks and drivers, and contracts through a logistics company, who recruited me to stay on dedicated to the old plant. I work at the same Address, but it Ain't the same place that it used to be.
I but in an average of 60 hours a week, but now I am home almost every night, and have weekends and holidays off, and made a bit over $83,000 last year.
Working for the RR, is something that I have always been interested in doing, but I would be going backwards in pay, have an unpredictable schedule, and questionable job security.
Regardless of what Fred Frailey and others think, driverless trucks are the least of my concerns, in the 14 years or so, that I have left in my career. There are a lot of reasons that I would NOT advise a young person to get into the industry, but losing my job to a self driving truck isn't one of them. Like a lot of working rails have said in the past, "The Job Ain't what it used to be". In ward facing cameras, OBC/ELD's ever changing HOS regs, and the lack of common courtesy on the road, is only getting worse, even between supposed "Professionals"
Anyone that thinks that self driving trucks are just around the corner has never driven one. I see so many potentenial issues with Autonomous trucks and "Platooning" that it would take a book to address them all. I read/hear comments about the RR's need to "Level the Feild" agaist those supposed "Threats" I just Laugh, it is just the bean counters trying to cut someone ELSE's Income and justifying their own doing so..
Doug
Over 30 years/3,000,000 moving freight from "A" to "B"
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
The past we remember is always better than the past we experienced.
What we remember are the good times. What we purge from our memories are the bad times. We purge much more than we remember.
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