243129 "I haven't looked at the P42 cab set up, but I highly doubt it is equipped with a 26L brake valve. " You are correct Jeff it is a 30cdw. That was an error on my part. Talking GE and thinking EMD.
"I haven't looked at the P42 cab set up, but I highly doubt it is equipped with a 26L brake valve. "
You are correct Jeff it is a 30cdw. That was an error on my part. Talking GE and thinking EMD.
No it is not WABCO 30 CDW. The Big "K" on the valve portion means its a Knorr (NYAB) AB probably CCAB2.
The EPIC equipped engines would have the big "W" on them.
30CDW is also WABCO, just an upgraded 26L.
Attention Overmod. Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience"
Murphy Siding BigJim Murphy Siding Tree and/or 243129- can you explain the orientation of the cab equipment that would cause 243129 to say that the engineer would have to leave his seat? Because the Emergency button is on the conductor's side in plain site, I can read it from here. That red button on the engineer's side is the "Cab Signal Acknowledge" button. Enlarge the picture to read the label. The engineer moves the brake handle all the way forward to put the brakes in emergency, just like on any other automatic brake valve. Thanks for the explanation.
BigJim Murphy Siding Tree and/or 243129- can you explain the orientation of the cab equipment that would cause 243129 to say that the engineer would have to leave his seat? Because the Emergency button is on the conductor's side in plain site, I can read it from here. That red button on the engineer's side is the "Cab Signal Acknowledge" button. Enlarge the picture to read the label. The engineer moves the brake handle all the way forward to put the brakes in emergency, just like on any other automatic brake valve.
Murphy Siding Tree and/or 243129- can you explain the orientation of the cab equipment that would cause 243129 to say that the engineer would have to leave his seat?
Because the Emergency button is on the conductor's side in plain site, I can read it from here. That red button on the engineer's side is the "Cab Signal Acknowledge" button. Enlarge the picture to read the label.
The engineer moves the brake handle all the way forward to put the brakes in emergency, just like on any other automatic brake valve.
Thanks for the explanation.
Amazing.
The P42s that I've been on have WABCO EPIC air brake. The only difference between the P42 and the freight engines is the brake interface for the cab signal and ACSES equipment.
As far as I know the ACSES overlay on ATC equipment is limited to the NE Corridor.
Murphy Siding What effect would the movement of the train- going from 59(?) mph on the mainline and taking a quick right hand turn- have on the crew's ability to grasp the situation and react in a hurry? Would that maneuver have thrown them out of their seats?
What effect would the movement of the train- going from 59(?) mph on the mainline and taking a quick right hand turn- have on the crew's ability to grasp the situation and react in a hurry? Would that maneuver have thrown them out of their seats?
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For those of you who may be interested, here is an 'official' P42 video with some elementary discussion of controls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRValOA7TZo
The emergency application button is around 25 minutes in; I think it's intended as the 'assistant engineer's' way to put the train in emergency, as it nominally does the same thing as the 'emergency' position on the engineer's blended brake controller does. It releases by pulling. But 49 CFR 238.231(c) states an emergency application on a passenger train must be 'irretrievable' so I would presume the button also holds the brake system in emergency, independent of the engineer's controls, until pulled up.
I was away from the computer. And BigJim handled the explanation.
The point of posting the pictures was to show that there is a big red button. It is analagous to the emergency brake valve on the conductor/firemen's side on older locomotives. Many current locomotives actually have electronics over air brake systems, so a push button on the right side makes perfect sense.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Murphy SidingWould that maneuver have thrown them out of their seats?
Perhaps; we won't know until we see the inside-camera view. Clearly the engineer was close enough to the horn to sound it, and the blended-brake lever to actuate it, seconds after traversing the switch. That does not indicate to me that the engineer was particularly 'disabled' by the lateral shock or confused for more than a second or so if that. But we'd need to see the camera file to know anything for sure.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy SidingTree and/or 243129- can you explain the orientation of the cab equipment that would cause 243129 to say that the engineer would have to leave his seat?
The red button on the engineer's side is the "Cab Signal Acknowledge" button. Enlarge the picture to read the label.
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243129 I am reactive not proactive. Scroll back in this thread and the thread in Passenger and you will see who set the tone. I understand the forum mentality and it's attendant clique so try to be objective in your search.
I am reactive not proactive. Scroll back in this thread and the thread in Passenger and you will see who set the tone. I understand the forum mentality and it's attendant clique so try to be objective in your search.
243129No everyone is not right. The engineer would have to leave his seat to "push the emergency button".
Still arguing against reality when he runs out of people. The locomotive says someone pushed the button to put the train in emergency. Sumwalt says someone pushed the button. You were not there, have only just now seen where things are, and think your opinion supersedes the actions of the people who were there in the emergency? Next you'll be saying Amtrak trained them badly because somebody shouldn't have 'reached' for the button they thought necessary to push.
Yes, the button is located away from the engineer's seat. If I had to guess before seeing the interior camera footage I'd say the conductor, with a longer view ahead around the curve and through the bridge, was actually the one pushing the button.
i have yet to see anything indicating the blended brake was moved to emergency before the button was pushed. That does not mean it wasn't; only that the effect of the button would likely override any subsequent action of the engineer's control.
Tree and/or 243129- can you explain the orientation of the cab equipment that would cause 243129 to say that the engineer would have to leave his seat?
243129 Murphy Siding 243129 Murphy Siding 243129 Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'. To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl. Did you or did you not allude to running trains? Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience" To be fair, shouldn't you be applying this same type of scrutiny to Euclid? Euclid is not an imperious condescending twit. I went to high school with a kid named Randy Groves who felt he had to find different ways to insult people and call them names in order to bolster his own self-esteem. Is that you Randy? If not, I feel you're being quite hypocritical. Why do you feel the need to get involved? Are you related to Overmod?
Murphy Siding 243129 Murphy Siding 243129 Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'. To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl. Did you or did you not allude to running trains? Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience" To be fair, shouldn't you be applying this same type of scrutiny to Euclid? Euclid is not an imperious condescending twit. I went to high school with a kid named Randy Groves who felt he had to find different ways to insult people and call them names in order to bolster his own self-esteem. Is that you Randy? If not, I feel you're being quite hypocritical.
243129 Murphy Siding 243129 Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'. To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl. Did you or did you not allude to running trains? Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience" To be fair, shouldn't you be applying this same type of scrutiny to Euclid? Euclid is not an imperious condescending twit.
Murphy Siding 243129 Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'. To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl. Did you or did you not allude to running trains? Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience" To be fair, shouldn't you be applying this same type of scrutiny to Euclid?
243129 Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'. To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl. Did you or did you not allude to running trains? Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience"
Overmod If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question. No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'.
If you were not quite as dumb as you keep trying to demonstrate you are, you would look at a P42 cab, something I now see you never have done, and inspect the emergency-brake arrangement actually on the locomotive type in question.
No, I'm not an engineer, as explained in the many other places you have tried to bring it up as an insult. So you may as well stop trying, and spend your time actually learning some of the things you are so glib to post about as an 'engineer'.
To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civily and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl.
Did you or did you not allude to running trains?
Is this quote attributed to you? "My practical running experience"
To be fair, shouldn't you be applying this same type of scrutiny to Euclid?
Euclid is not an imperious condescending twit.
I went to high school with a kid named Randy Groves who felt he had to find different ways to insult people and call them names in order to bolster his own self-esteem. Is that you Randy? If not, I feel you're being quite hypocritical.
Why do you feel the need to get involved? Are you related to Overmod?
No everyone is not right. The engineer would have to leave his seat to "push the emergency button".
Thanks for the pictures.
Well, it's not at the engineer's position, but:
OTOH, the image I found on the same page of the engineer's seat did show a console style brake, and it did have emergency labelled for the full forward position.
So everybody is right...
ALL:
I am a retired professional railroader, a clerk, who walked tracks, took injured workers to the local hospital, filled out reports, made out timerolls, worked in the Material Department at Northtown, and rode trains and engines whenever I could. These two brave me had no chance to react--as simple as that.
I think that "Trains" should shut down this thread and remember that two railroaders will not be returning home. Yes, I did see a few fatalities in my 38 years of service.
Ed Burns (my real name).
Overmod It is really rather simple, even for bullying blustering buffoons (to keep this in the spirit of your recent posting style) 1) See P42 technical material, for the button 2) read Sumwalt's report, and the EDR telemetry, both of which refer explicitly to the button being pressed. You have nothing better than that, do you, except some insults and what I'm increasingly suspecting to be decades-old experience. if you want to continue your MO to denigrate me, take it to PM. If you want a kinder reception for your posting, make it at least more accurate and read before you post. I think you have a great deal of experience and plenty of wisdom, so do not think I am going after you personally except that I have never seen a positive result from tolerating a bullying attitude in group discussions.
It is really rather simple, even for bullying blustering buffoons (to keep this in the spirit of your recent posting style)
1) See P42 technical material, for the button
2) read Sumwalt's report, and the EDR telemetry, both of which refer explicitly to the button being pressed.
You have nothing better than that, do you, except some insults and what I'm increasingly suspecting to be decades-old experience.
if you want to continue your MO to denigrate me, take it to PM. If you want a kinder reception for your posting, make it at least more accurate and read before you post. I think you have a great deal of experience and plenty of wisdom, so do not think I am going after you personally except that I have never seen a positive result from tolerating a bullying attitude in group discussions.
Scroll back and see who set the tone for this discussion. Stop playing the victim.
Now once again can this quote be attributed to you? My practical running experience"
OK, I've looked at some pictures of the P42 cab interior. Actually very similiar to freight equipment with desk top controls. I could even run it without having to read the manual.
I guess I figured it was more modern, probably thinking of the electrics and high speed trains.
Jeff
I haven't looked at the P42 cab set up, but I highly doubt it is equipped with a 26L brake valve. I expect (without looking) that the controls look different, and may operate differently, than what is used in freight service, desk top, original or retro style control stand. Although I would expect the automatic brake valve to have an emergency position.
Now I'm off to find the link and actually take a look.
(The Amtrak detours I've had always had a freight engine tacked on in front of the Amtrak power. And we operated with the brake valve set to "freight" mode, no graduated release for us.)
To anyone with experience operating trains you would be the one coming off as "dumb". Why would an engineer reach for the "button" as you describe it, when there is an emergency feature on the 26L brake? Try and answer civilly and not like some prepubescent schoolgirl.
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