CSX vs. Amtrak 91 at Cayce, SC

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CSX vs. Amtrak 91 at Cayce, SC
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:35 AM

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:14 AM

Very bad.

Appears to be a head-on judging by the relative position of the underailed part of the passenger train.  Very substantial apparent damage to the power on the CSX freight, very little on the visible portion of the Amtrak power, which is a bit surprising considering what I'd expect from monocoque construction.  Note the severe compression artifact visible in the shell of the leading passenger car.

This will be interesting to reconstruct, I think.

My thoughts are with those killed, who I'm afraid are likely to be enginemen, and the injured.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:24 AM

I noticed that myself, the lead CSX units are torn to shreds, while the Amtrak locomotive from appearances seems to be fairly intact.  Very strange.

I suppose we'll just have to wait for the investigation to find out how this happened.

Prayers for the victims, and sincere sympathies for their families.

 

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:35 AM

It looks as though the Amtrak engine overroad the tops of the freight engines.  I wonder if the freight was standing still or nearly so.  I have not seen any other photos.  I wonder if the Amtrak train jacknifed in places. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:36 AM

Through back channels I have heard that there was a Signal Suspension in effect on the territory the previous day - it is not known if the Signal Suspension was STILL in effect when this incident happened.

         

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:40 AM

Firelock76

I noticed that myself, the lead CSX units are torn to shreds, while the Amtrak locomotive from appearances seems to be fairly intact.  Very strange.

I suppose we'll just have to wait for the investigation to find out how this happened.

Prayers for the victims, and sincere sympathies for their families.

 

 

There are a couple of articles posted by media sources that indicate that the collision was a 'head'on' (?).  PTC is likely to be an 'issue' in ongoing articles referencing this incident..... The AMTRAK #91 was one of the NYC to Miami trains of the "Silver Service" repored as having 147 passengers and 8 crew on board...Likely, the deceased are crew members on either CSX or Amrtak(?). Sympathy has to be extended to the families of those injured and deceased.

P.S. Additional story and photos linked @http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/04/amtrak-csx-trains-collide-in-south-carolina-injuries-reported.html

The photos show exactly what Overmod indicated, as to the damage resulting to the CSX Power and the Amtrak #47 power . The photos indicate that the collision might have happened at a switch on the yard tracks or the head on was a glancing blow as the trains met (in area of restricted clearances (?)

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:52 AM

Firelock76
I suppose we'll just have to wait for the investigation to find out how this happened.

A little comic relief in the middle of this developing tragedy was a fine note to strike.

 

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:26 AM

It looks like the entire cab of 47 is caved in from close ups now finding their way to the internet. I suspect the Amtrak crew are the fatalities here.

Based on the lack of derailment on the part of the freight, it looks like it might've been stopped.

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Posted by LithoniaOperator on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:30 AM

The angle I have seen does not really show the front of the AMTK engine well, but it appears that there could be huge damage to me. It looks that the nose/cab section could be essentially flattened or sheared off. CNN now reporting both dead are AMTK employees.

BaltDC, what is a "signal suspension?"

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:31 AM

Overmod
 
Firelock76
I suppose we'll just have to wait for the investigation to find out how this happened.

 

A little comic relief in the middle of this developing tragedy was a fine note to strike.

 

 

Don't misunderstand, (and maybe you don't) but I wasn't trying to be funny.

One thing that concerns me is when the investigation's done the news cycle will have moved on, and more than moved on, and if we get to hear about the results it'll only be if "Trains" reports it.

From that Fox News piece I get the impression the CSX train was partially fouling the main line.

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Posted by LithoniaOperator on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:32 AM

Yes, CNN now reporting the freight was stationary.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:33 AM

I see photos showing that the Amtrak train did ineed jacknife in at least one location where two cars are displaced from the line of the train.  That would tend to indicate a higher impact speed than what is evident at the head end.  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:45 AM

Firelock76
Don't misunderstand, (and maybe you don't) but I wasn't trying to be funny.

Nothing about the accident was funny.  It was you saying we'd have to wait for the investigation to start being educated here about its causes.  Did you really, seriously, think that would be the case?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 04, 2018 10:59 AM

2018 off to a wicked start..gremlins and demons. 

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Posted by Goodtiming on Sunday, February 04, 2018 11:27 AM

Easy Overmod; pull in your talons!

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 11:30 AM

Overmod
 
Firelock76
Don't misunderstand, (and maybe you don't) but I wasn't trying to be funny.

 

Nothing about the accident was funny.  It was you saying we'd have to wait for the investigation to start being educated here about its causes.  Did you really, seriously, think that would be the case?

 

When I say "...wait for the investigation..." that's strictly in the interest of fairness.  Remember the old saying about how news reports are merely the "first draft" of history?  While it seems pretty oblious to all at this time the cause of the accident may very well be a partially blocked mainline the "Who, what, when, where, why, and how"  and apportionment of blame still has to be gotten into. 

If you say it's a little ridiculous for an accident report to take two years to finalize I've got no argument with you there.  I believe it was Don Phillips in one of his columns who said that air accident investigators get a little nervous if they don't have a good handle on an incident within 48 hours.  I would think a rail accident would be a little easier to investigate, but what do I know?  It's not my line of work.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, February 04, 2018 11:33 AM

LithoniaOperator

 

BaltDC, what is a "signal suspension?"

 

It's when they take signals out of service for a variety of reasons.  The size of the suspension depends on what they are doing.  It could be as small as a control point or miles long involving multiple blocks.  Within the suspension the block signals no longer govern or protect movements.  (When we do it, temporary flagmen locations are established by bulletin and a type of manual absolute blocking is used.  You can't pass a flagman without permission and the flagman can't grant it until the next flagman has verified any train or engine has cleared his location.  The first and last signals in service are specified in the bulletin and trains are to approach the first in service/end of suspension prepared to stop.)  Signals out of service may be dark, hooded, or just left on and disregarded.  Signals protecting railroad crossings at grade and drawbridges are usually not part of any suspension and remain in service.

Jeff   

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 11:37 AM

Goodtiming

Easy Overmod; pull in your talons!

 

It's OK, I've got a thick skin and don't claim to be a fount of wisdom, plus Overmod and I go back a ways so I don't take anything he says personally.  Nor do I have to get the last word in.

We're all pretty angry about this, I've guessed that much.  I mean, here we are well into the second decade of the 21st Century and with all the technology available to us why do things like this still happen?  I was ready to cut loose with a "Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot" tirade myself this morning over this horror, but took a deep breath and got control of myself before I did.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 11:51 AM

Near as I can determine this is where it occurred.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9741687,-81.0508551,294m/data=!3m1!1e3

North end of the CSX Cayce yard. Freight was parked on the West track. I first suspected that the freight was fowling the switch from the single track north of here but looking at the view of the area, it appears to be a head on on the west track. If signals not working, bad news. Crew may not have known the freight was there. Wonder what orders they had. Waiting on STB. 

Train had just left Columbia SC 25 minutes late. 

https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2018/2/3/91

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:09 PM

Firelock76
When I say "...wait for the investigation..." that's strictly in the interest of fairness. ... If you say it's a little ridiculous for an accident report to take two years to finalize I've got no argument with you there.

You mistake the gist of my comment, alas!  I was merely pointing out that at least one poster in this thread will surely have the thing solved, right down to the engineers' thoughts, motivations, and perhaps alien interference, perhaps in mere days.  With or without any we-don't-need-no-steenkin'-NTSB input.

IOW the comment was not directed at Wayne in any raptor sense whatsoever (nor would any comment of mine likely ever be).  Perhaps I should be more liberal with the emoticons in future.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:13 PM

It is reported that the Amtrak train was on the wrong track, and the freight was standing with nobody on board.  The track was referred to as a "side track."  The Amtrak train collided at 59 mph impact speed.  

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:15 PM

A very great tragedy! The NTSB will do a very thorough investigation.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:15 PM

Hey Overmod, at least no-one's blaming this on Islamic terrorists, or alt-right terrorists, or Code Pink, or what ever loon-of-the-week group may be running around loose out there.

At least not that we're aware of, anyway.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:20 PM

Firelock76
At least not that we're aware of, anyway.

Don't look at facebook comments, then.

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:24 PM

Euclid
  It is reported that the Amtrak train was on the wrong track, and the freight was standing with nobody on board.  The track was referred to as a "side track."  The Amtrak train collided at 59 mph impact speed. 

If the Amtrak train was on the wrong track, who most likely would have been at fault?  Also, how likely is it that the engineer knew or should have known that he or she was on the wrong track?

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:33 PM

zugmann
 
Firelock76
At least not that we're aware of, anyway.

 

Don't look at facebook comments, then.

 

Don't worry, I never do.  I don't do the Facebook.  At all.  Ever.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:42 PM

Firelock76

Hey Overmod, at least no-one's blaming this on Islamic terrorists, or alt-right terrorists, or Code Pink, or what ever loon-of-the-week group may be running around loose out there.

At least not that we're aware of, anyway.

 

  Wayne, Firelock76 ,  Those very facts, by themselves should lessen the hyper-ventilation by the MSM's, reportage by at least a week(?)Mischief                          The information provided bhy Jeff H. was pretty thorough on the potential aspects of a 'Signal Suspension' ( UPRR and CSX rules on that,one would suspect ,would possibly be similar(?).

Looking at the map of the Cayce(SC.) area, and yard seem to indicate possibly a place, maintained to 'yard' local freight traffic; or establish 'meets' between passing trains.     The CSX train has been reported as 'parked' or 'standing without a crew'. Whichever it was, that,  possibly saved some lives(?).

It would be interesting[IMHO] to know what kind of 'orders' from CSX Dispatch the AMTK #91 was operating under at that time of the morning.    If the CSX train was fouling the tracks used by it, how long had it been 'standing' at that  location. Did anyone "know' if the CSX train was at that location, if so for how long?      Lots of questions and very few answers at this time.

 

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:58 PM
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Posted by Uncle_Bob on Sunday, February 04, 2018 1:06 PM

Sad to hear of the passing of the Amtrak employees.  From the pics, I assumed it was CSX crewmen who had died. 

Just curious, what CSX engine is now scrap metal after that collision?  There doesn't appear to be enough left to read the number. 

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Posted by rdamon on Sunday, February 04, 2018 1:12 PM

I am suprised they are still allowing road traffic over that bridge.

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