Manned Helpers Back on Donner Pass.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman

What is going on in Reno with regards to this Re-Trac project? I haven't heard about this before. It seems that there are still a few manned helpers, but it seem to happen only when they are short on AC4400s, which is becoming less and less frequent. The best ones were the GP60 trios. I still seem to see double SD60s in the rear from time to time.

Dave

Dave,

It is my understanding which was stated at the top of the thread that as a normal part of operation over Donner, manned helpers are history. Although the railroad, trying to remain fluid would surely institude them at anytime if nessary, just like what happened with the Feather River Canyon closure and the increased pressure on Donner.

With the exception of the above mentioned happing, its been a very long time since I've heard DS 74 mention helpers, and meets. And its been a good three years since I've seen helpers waiting at Lawton. But, I'm on this side of the hill, and your on that side.

In the next couple of days, I'll try to do an update on the ReTRAC project with photos.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman

The best ones were the GP60 trios. I still seem to see double SD60s in the rear from time to time.


Dave

Boy, I'd love to have a photo of that trio of GP60s on the shove. I've never seen that on Donner! I bet you could win some money with that photo, you know during an after hours railfan BS session. Speaking of DPUs, watched the Sparks yard job take one of the big GE units and switch Cantex at Lawton with it - I did a double take!

This was the last manned helper set I saw anywhere on the east side. Its pictured at Truckee summer of 2000/2001, I think - notes not handy right now.



Jim

[broncoman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

Boy, I'd love to have a photo of that trio of GP60s on the shove. I've never seen that on Donner! I bet you could win some money with that photo, you know during an after hours railfan BS session. Speaking of DPUs, watched the Sparks yard job take one of the big GE units and switch Cantex at Lawton with it - I did a double take!

This was the last manned helper set I saw anywhere on the east side. Its pictured at Truckee summer of 2000/2001, I think - notes not handy right now.


Jim

I wish I could find my pictures of the GPs. They were taken between Alta and Colfax. I spent a lot of time around the Alta and Drum area in the early 90s. They used to go back and forth quite often. A friend of mine just got a pentrex DVD for christmas that covered SP over donner and they showed them also.
I'll keep you posted if I see another manned helper set the next time I am in Colfax.

Dave

[twhite]

While we're on the subject of Donner Pass, when is UP going to get its collective rear in gear and replace all the double-track between Emigrant Gap and Stanford that SP tore out before the merger? I've been hearing that promise from UP ever since they took over, and nothing happens. I've heard that after the Reno re-tracking takes place, that UP is going to increase traffic over the Summit, but that stretch of single track sounds like it will turn into a major bottleneck. Anyone got any info? Much as I like the Feather River canyon, UP must be chafing at that 25mph speed limit and the rockslides all the time, despite the 1% easy grade.
Tom

[broncoman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

UP promised to re-install the second main track on Donner Pass? When was that promise made, and where was it made? That's news to me.

I do not think that stretch of single main track will ever be a bottleneck in the rest of my life. It hasn't been essential (except perhaps during the occasional bad winter) since the 1960s. Traffic levels would have to increase into the range of 40 train movements per day before one would look hard at replacing it -- and that's more train movements than Donner and the Feather River Canyon combined, at present, and for the forseeable future. Plus, Donner doesn't have clearance for international double-stacks, and gaining that clearance would be very expensive.

UP has many more pressing needs for capacity than Donner Pass, such as the Sunset Route between L.A. and El Paso, the Overland Route between Fremont, Nebr., and Chicago, the C&EI between East St. Louis and Chicago, the Sunset Route between Houston and Livonia, La., and Houston and L.A. terminals. There is only so much capital to do things, and I would be surprised and dismayed to see it spend the money on Donner Pass first. Even before the second track went back, there are more useful ways to spend money on Donner: increasing clearances, and installing CTC on the west side where it is still ABS double-track.

Mark,
If I understand the last part of your post, you mean to say that there are signals in only one direction since there is a westbound and eastbound track west of Donner to Roseville? I am pretty sure that there are signals both way on at least the westbound track as they run Amtack California up it occasionally, I thought to at least Colfax. Or am I not understanding correctly.. Please enlighten...[?][:D]
It would also seem that Roseville can't sort fast enough as there are usually trains stacked up going into Roseville from Reno, it probably wouldn't help to get more trains to Roseville just to wait?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: I wish I could find my pictures of the GPs. They were taken between Alta and Colfax. I spent a lot of time around the Alta and Drum area in the early 90s. They used to go back and forth quite often. A friend of mine just got a pentrex DVD for christmas that covered SP over donner and they showed them also.
I'll keep you posted if I see another manned helper set the next time I am in Colfax.


Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

UP promised to re-install the second main track on Donner Pass? When was that promise made, and where was it made? That's news to me.

I do not think that stretch of single main track will ever be a bottleneck in the rest of my life.

The only part of the Donner route that will probably never be retracked is that section of No. 1 track between Norden and Shed 47.

As soon as project ReTRAC is completed, and Union Pacific's capital budget can afford it that section of Number One track between Switch 9 and Shed 10 will be retracked.

This because the Port of Oakland will be pumping out more and more eastbound loads.

My opinion

Jim B -Lawton, NV

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill


Truckee to Sparks DT ABS, 34.5 miles

Mark,

The city of Reno has undertaken a large project to trench 2.1 miles of track through downtown. The shoofly that has been constructed to bypass the old main is now CTC controled. But, all trains moving through this terriortoy need a track warrent!

Jim

[broncoman]

Would it be feasable to make up trains from the port of oakland or from Roseville made up of spine cars only in order to utilize Donner a little more. I know part of this topic came up on a post with regards to the Feather river canyon, but I don't remember if this scenerio was brought up. If I understood another post correctly its not just the tunnels but the snowsheds also that are too low for double stacks which probably would make it too cost prohibitive to improve them.

Jim where did they run the shoofly? I would assume they are trenching under where the existing right of way was.

Dave

[broncoman]

I am going to miss getting a room on the south side of silver legacy and being able to do a little trainspotting on the sly. I would assume its going to be like the Alameda corridor.
Mark are you talking about Fremont CA, or a Fremont in another state.
One other thing is the CTE/DPU package on GE better than EMD. It seems that since UP had bought and is upgrading existing AC4400s to CTE it might have an edge (bad for us who like manned helpers).

Dave

[broncoman]

Mark,

Is the labor cost for running a set of manned helpers really that high as compared to taking a unit(s) all the way from Sparks to Roseville (or vice versa). Or are they just running a heavier train since they usually seem to favor 3-4 unit in front 2-3 unit at the rear. Does the train become heavy enough to not only need the power to get over the hill, but now need the power to slow down on the hill? I will say that I remember seeing trains struggle a lot more on the lessor grades Roseville to Auburn, whereas now they hold their speed 30+ all the way (all units seem to be running , all producing smoke anyway).

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman

Mark,

Is the labor cost for running a set of manned helpers really that high as compared to taking a unit(s) all the way from Sparks to Roseville (or vice versa). Or are they just running a heavier train since they usually seem to favor 3-4 unit in front 2-3 unit at the rear. Does the train become heavy enough to not only need the power to get over the hill, but now need the power to slow down on the hill? I will say that I remember seeing trains struggle a lot more on the lessor grades Roseville to Auburn, whereas now they hold their speed 30+ all the way (all units seem to be running , all producing smoke anyway).

This might be useful.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=25072

[Anonymous]

And the bad thing is that they use mostly GE,s for DPU helpers and they don't like to stay running in tunnels. Hence the SP buying the majority of the tunnel motors.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drailed1999

And the bad thing is that they use mostly GE,s for DPU helpers and they don't like to stay running in tunnels. Hence the SP buying the majority of the tunnel motors.

I miss the RVWCMs and WCRVMs (noticed I used th SP convention) with SD40T-2s, SD45T-2s, SD40-2s (SD40Rs), and SD45-2s (SD45Rs). Fortunately, I still get to see SD40T-2s (unfortunately patched or repainted) on the haulers and occasionally as a yard switcher.

[mloik]

For those who want to take a look at what trains on Donner are contending with today, check out the following web cam (downtown Truckee, CA)...

http://www.magnifeye.com/rexhotel.html

[Anonymous]

We need them to move it to the right so we can see some tracks along with the Depot!<G>

QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

For those who want to take a look at what trains on Donner are contending with today, check out the following web cam (downtown Truckee, CA)...

http://www.magnifeye.com/rexhotel.html

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Jim: I checked out the shoofly last spring -- right down an alley! I took a few nice photos from the fifth level of the adjacent casino parking garage of Amtrak pulling in.

The parking garage must have been Harrah's. A nice spot indeed, but wi***hey would have but the wires for the lights for the temporary plateform underground. Before the shoo-fly, nice top shots could be had off the the top floor of the Fitzgerald's parking garage across Center St from the Harrah's garage.

Here is one of my first attempts at a night shot. This is Commercial Row between Virginia and Sierra on Jan. 1, 2005. A westbound manifest on the shoo-fly. And of course it was this class locomotive that put the nail in the coffin of manned helpers on Donner.

Jim - Lawton, NV (MP235.5)

[Anonymous]

So in Reno, they are basicly putting in a two mile long tunnel under Reno? Or what is going on? It is going to be sad to not see the sign of Reno, The biggest little City in the World anymore. So have they moved the station to the fly, and also are they going to move the station platform underground, or out of the area? Thanks,
Brad