Manned Helpers Back on Donner Pass.

[Anonymous]

It was a real joy seeing manned helpers back on UP's "Overland Route" working Donner Pass. Due to a slide in the Feather River Canyon Union Pacific rerouted its FRC traffic via Donner Pass. With this heavier than normal traffic on Donner, the railroad reinstituted manned helpers.

Sunday I had a few hours to spend railfanning, found this westman at Boca, California about to get some help.



SP9033

[daveklepper]

I hope the traffic is moving smoothly with few delays.

[Anonymous]

As I understand it, Union Pacific opened the FRC route Monday afternoon. The first train operated past the slide was a grain train. I'm sure there is much more work to been done at the slide, but traffic is moving through the Feather River Canyon and the manned helpers are now gone from Donner. Its back to DPUs.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

That was quick.

[Anonymous]

Donner Pass is one of the toughest in the nation especially in winter.. That picture sure is a good one! I personally believe every helper should be manned. Computers are nice but sometimes cannot exceed the judgement of a human.

[oskar]

how long has it been since the DPU took over Donner Pass




kevin

[Anonymous]

HighIron2003ar,

Yes, that is what I also think about manned helpers.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

i've always wondered if/how much Donner Pass is used these days... what kind of traffic and frequency is there...?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by farmer03

i've always wondered if/how much Donner Pass is used these days... what kind of traffic and frequency is there...?

farmer03,

Seems I remember John Bromley, the UP PR guy, state that it averaged about 17 to 18 on Donner in 24 hours and 19 to 20 on the Feather River route. More on some days less on others.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar

how long has it been since the DPU took over Donner Pass
kevin

kevin,

This is something I should know, but I don't. It seems to me it was sort of a gradual thing that began about 3 or 4 years ago, and after about six months it was all DPUs. Maybe someone else has exact dates on this.

In the nineties, Donner many times would have three helpers working the "hill," two Colfax Helpers and one Truckee Helper. Not to sure about the Colfax helpers but the Truckee Helper would be added to a train between Lawton, NV (just west of Reno) and Truckee, CA depending on need, it would pu***o Norden then head back east light. On occasion, if there was a problem with train braking the Truckee Helper would continue west and assist a train down the "hill" to Colfax. Same with the Colfax Helpers.

SP9033

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Donner Pass is one of the toughest in the nation especially in winter.. That picture sure is a good one! I personally believe every helper should be manned. Computers are nice but sometimes cannot exceed the judgement of a human.

HighIron2003ar,

Here are links to a 4 photo series of that train and the helpers at Boca. One of the locos in the helper consist is an unpatched SP unit, although its a SD45 car body its one of the MK rebuilds called a SD40M-2.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88110

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88111

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88112

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=88113

[Anonymous]

Very nice. My own knowledge of Donner is from History and driving a semi thru there from Reno down to the Coast when needed.

One of the things I dont understand about modern helpers is how does the rear engines know how much "Shove" to apply to the train? Do they recieve data from the lead units? With those long cars that train would be very long indeed.

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Very nice. My own knowledge of Donner is from History and driving a semi thru there from Reno down to the Coast when needed.

One of the things I dont understand about modern helpers is how does the rear engines know how much "Shove" to apply to the train? Do they recieve data from the lead units? With those long cars that train would be very long indeed.

Are you talking about remote helpers or manned in this instance? If remote, doesn't the head end engineer also control the rear engines? If manned, the rear helper engineer usually watches his amp guage to see how much throttle to apply....if his ampmeter suddenly goes up, usually means headend is throttling down for some reason, perhaps a more restrictive signal, or losing an engine on the head end. At least on the NS Main through Altoona, Pa, the rear helper Engineer watches the amp gauge, and also relies on radio communication with the head end....such as when a more restrictive signal is up ahead, the head-end will call the rear and tell them to lay back for a restricting, or stop signal up ahead... A conversation might go like this on the NS Main..... ' NS 10N Engine 9754 to the rear helper 3342, we've got a restricting up here at MO' so the helper will throttle down until he hears anything different from the head-end. The crews also communicate on downgrades for use of dynamics..... A scenario would be a Westbound general manifest at 45MPH heading downgrade through Lilly, Pa. ' NS 13G 2601 to the rear helper 3374, can you give me some dynamic?" " 3374 to the 13G, thats a Roger, going into dynamic now" let me know if you need any more...." So, radio, and 'seat of the pants' is primarily how a manned rear helper operates. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

I don't know exactly how they work as far as the range question, but I have been trackside with my scanner on, as one of these heavier westbounds go by, and the head-end calls the rear end asking for dynamic, and then, if the rear of the train with the helpers happen to go by my vantage point during this conversation, you'll hear the dynamic brake fans kick-in and rev up, as the dynamics kick-in...The older SD40-2's that are used in the Altoona area,as helpers with their louder dynamic brake fans make the process quite audible. The train might already have its rear helper in dynamic when the helper gets the call from the headend asking for more, but I've also seen rear helpers pass me by, with no dynamic noise at all, and then kick it in, The East Slope, heading out of Gallitzin, especially on the Slide, has a steeper average grade than the West Slope, and freight trains going down the Slide are usually limited to 10-12 mph for a segment..I have watched engines in full dynamic on both ends of the train descend this section just East of the Gallitzin Tunnels. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

hmm...for some reason i didn't think donner pass was used all that much anymore. learn something new every day!

[Anonymous]

yeah, it is still a major main line. I don't think they send stacks over it, but everything else can.
Brad

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

On the last part about the dynamic braking.. I would asume that the dynamics can work within a range based on minimum to maximun resistance so the helper in the rear would simply just get the dymanics going and not try to add any more braking power unless the front engine asks for it?

After rereading your quote a couple of times, the answer would be yes...the dynamics can be varied, like the throttle positions or notches...depending on how much dynamic braking is needed, the engineer can vary the amount of dynamic braking effort by whatever position he places the dynamic lever in...... as the engineer increases dynamic braking effort, the fans will spin faster to release the heat generated in the dynamic brake grids. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

farmer03,

Looks like your question on DPUs has been answered. I see that in the Aug. 2001 issue of Trains, Helpers were the focus of that issue. Think I might order a back issue.

Also, since you passed through this area on I-80, the location of those photos I took, were just east of the CHP weigh station. Do you remember that stretch of road?

SP9033

[Anonymous]

While I was at the Roseville service track, I was assembling east bound consists in 2000. They learned very quickly that they had to install repeaters in the tunnels. NO SIGNAL, NO DPU. But I was not aware that the UP stopped using manned helpers over Donner because not all trains need the extra HP till they get there

[Anonymous]

Marty,

I like your tag line. I have a hard hat with a sticker on it with the same line. A friend that used to work there got it for me, along with a number board from SP9033 an Espee SD45.

Yup, the manned helpers on Donner are a thing of the past. I don't get to Roseville, but at Sparks they add and subtract these units from trains. And just like in the good-ol Espee days, these units get real dirty!

SP9033

[Anonymous]

Here are a few links to photos of the "Truckee Helpers."

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=87591

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=87497

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=87314

SP9033

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

farmer03,

Looks like your question on DPUs has been answered. I see that in the Aug. 2001 issue of Trains, Helpers were the focus of that issue. Think I might order a back issue.

Also, since you passed through this area on I-80, the location of those photos I took, were just east of the CHP weigh station. Do you remember that stretch of road?

SP9033

I dont know if Farmer remembers it.. but I shore as hell do =) Between that CHP and Reno you had to be very careful. Did the nature regrow it's burned vegatation yet?

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

And just like in the good-ol Espee days, these units get real dirty!

UP has some cinder blocks running through here also. What is really nice is that I noticed some of these have the soot cleaned off of the American flag, even if it is everywhere else.

[Anonymous]

i think one of you have me confused for someone else...lol i've never been to kalifornia.

[Anonymous]

I'm old and confused most of the time, got farmer03 and HighIron2003ar confused. I was wrong, I'll pay more attention in the future! Yes, I've gotten a chuckle out of that too...

Let me tell you Mr. ericsp, still wet behind the ears, the same stuff that got SP units dirty, is now getting UP units dirty. Its called "tunnel mist," if you assign a unit for ping-pong duty between Roseville and Sparks for a week or two, than three weeks, with another week, and never wash it, it gets just as dirty as any ESPEE unit ever did.

And as far as the UP wrapping some units in flags, it is absolutly against flag protocol, period. "The Flag should never be used for advertising purposes. " Its one thing for an operating employee to adorn his/her locomotive with a flag, it is a whole different matter when a commercial enterprise like UP plasters a flag on the side of its locomotives and makes it a livery subject to trademark laws.

SP9033

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

Let me tell you Mr. ericsp, still wet behind the ears, the same stuff that got SP units dirty, is now getting UP units dirty. Its called "tunnel mist," if you assign a unit for ping-pong duty between Roseville and Sparks for a week or two, than three weeks, with another week, and never wash it, it gets just as dirty as any ESPEE unit ever did.

I know it is from diesels operating at slow speed from tunnels. It is the particulates in the diesel exhaust. The reason why I like the UP units like this is that they almost look like SP units.

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

And as far as the UP wrapping some units in flags, it is absolutly against flag protocol, period. "The Flag should never be used for advertising purposes. " Its one thing for an operating employee to adorn his/her locomotive with a flag, it is a whole different matter when a commercial enterprise like UP plasters a flag on the side of its locomotives and makes it a livery subject to trademark laws.

You misunderstood me. I like the fact that someone is keeping the flag decal clean. Since locomotives get dirty and sometimes vandalized, I think that UP might want to reconsider this. Hopefully one of the attorneys on the forum will let us know if UP can trademark this part of its logo.

[Anonymous]

As I understand it, the UP plans to put much more traffic over Donner Pass once the Re-Trac project has been completed in downtown Reno with a year or so.

[mloik]

One of favorite pastimes is to snowshoe up to Donner Summit and watch the trains roll by. At night, the Bar of America has a great view of the tracks...

[broncoman]

What is going on in Reno with regards to this Re-Trac project? I haven't heard about this before.
It seems that there are still a few manned helpers, but it seem to happen only when they are short on AC4400s, which is becoming less and less frequent. The best ones were the GP60 trios. I still seem to see double SD60s in the rear from time to time.

Dave