Trains without crews

[tree68]

There are still cabeese (excuse me, "shoving platforms") still in use, but in most cases, that's all they are is platforms.  The windows are plated over, and I don't even know if the crews can get inside.

But, yeah.

[Miningman]

Civilization is dead.

Once a typical sight of tail end crew on shoving move. Note the backup airhose in place.
This is on the Kingston Sub. parallel to the Chalk River Sub. mainline between Renfrew Jct. and Renfrew.

Calabogie Lake, June 1983 Gene Burles

 

 

Sharbot Lake, June 1983 Gene Burles

[BaltACD]

jeffhergert

 

zugmann

Be cheaper to just rip out the tracks and use trucks. 

That's what most who used to ship/receive by rail have done.  It's sad to see buildings with rail doors that have been permanently closed off.  The rails, if not removed, disconnected where they once would've joined the railroad's tracks.  Or to look at a Zone/Track/Spot book for an urban area and see so many tracks, if they actually still exist, marked "vacant".  Not to mention that so many industries are gone completely.  If replaced, replaced by light manufacturing or service industries that often don't need a full box car, or trailer.

Jeff 

The CSX Baltimore Division Operating Center reused the same warehouse space that Chessie System originally leased for the operation of the Baltimore Terminal Services center in 1978.  The warehouse was located in a industrial center that was built in the late 1950's and through the 1960's and housed a number of businesses that used rail service, including Carlings Brewery, A&P Distribution warehouses for their grocery stores.  Yard crews switched the area 24 hours a day and were headquartered at a trailer office across from HX Tower.  The area supported 100 cars inbound and 100 cars outbound on a daily basis.

When the BDOC was opened in June 2008 the area was serviced by a yard engine that originated at Curtis Bay Yard and came to the area 2 days per week IF traffic permitted.  Carlings property changed hand multiple times and then the brewery was demolished and the property redevloped into building supply company depot plus a trucking company's main offices.  A&P closed all their stores in the Baltimore area and the distribution center was demolished and redeveloped with part of the property becoming a FedEx facility.  The industries the took rail delivery on the lead that ran a mile and a half down to Carlings ended rail service and the lead was removed, some of the company's still have their sidings (it is their property) but they aren't connected to anything.  The building the houses BDOC in the 1970's had 2 tracks in back of it - one to provide rail service to the building, the other was a lead to a couple of other building as well as terminating at the crew office trailer. 

[Semper Vaporo]

Everytime this subject of crewless trains comes up, I am reminded of a joke I learned over 60 years ago...

----------------------------

Passengers of the first fully automated airline flight were just settling in when a voice came over the speaker system of the plane:

"Welcome to the first fully automated airline flight.

You have noticed that your tickets were validated by a machine.  Your luggage was taken by a conveyer to the baggage hold of the plane and placed by a robotic arm.  You were directed to your seats by following flashing lights in the floor.  The doors closed all on their own and the engines are now going through the pre-flight checks and we will be taxiing to the runway under the control of the flight computer and the computers in the airport tower.  Your flight to your destination will be under the control of the flight computer, and the landing will be fully automated using the radio signals from the destination runway. 

Please be assured that all this is being done without any human intervention... do not worry, nothing can possibly go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong...

----------------------------

 

[jeffhergert]

zugmann

Be cheaper to just rip out the tracks and use trucks.

 

That's what most who used to ship/receive by rail have done.  It's sad to see buildings with rail doors that have been permanently closed off.  The rails, if not removed, disconnected where they once would've joined the railroad's tracks.  Or to look at a Zone/Track/Spot book for an urban area and see so many tracks, if they actually still exist, marked "vacant".  Not to mention that so many industries are gone completely.  If replaced, replaced by light manufacturing or service industries that often don't need a full box car, or trailer.

Jeff 

[zugmann]

Be cheaper to just rip out the tracks and use trucks.

[jeffhergert]

For this to work, wouldn't EVERY switch on the entire railroad network need to be powered and automated?  The ones to customers, the ones to and in yards.  And they would have to work flawlessly all the time.

Jeff 

[daveklepper]

Which is the case with most automatic rapid transit lines, New York's "L and future 7," PATCO Lindenwald, several London and Paris lines.

[Fred M Cain]

In our most recent issue there was an interesting article discussing driverless trains.  I was particularly intrigued by the quote provided in the article from Larry Gross.  He believes that the biggest help to railroads as far as autonomous trains is concerned would be at the local level.

 

I was pleaseed to hear that someone else was thinking on those terms.  This brings me back again to my idea of "driverless boxcars" that I posted on another thread.  I would like to repost that idea here:

 

A boxcar could be developed that has the ability to deliver itself from the shipper’s dock to a local classification center.  I believe the technology already exists to do this.  If not, it could be very easily developed.  Unlike driverless trucks, the fact that driverless boxcars would be on a fixed guideway would make them a whole lot safer.  The technology would also be easier to implement because figuring out a way to keep them safely on the asphalt and out of the way of other vehicles would not be necessary.

 

It goes without saying that tracks leading from the shippers’ docks to the local yard(s) would have to be fenced off and grade crossing free.  But that would be a good idea anyways.

 

How would you possibly power the driverless boxcars?  Before the advent of lithium ion batteries that might have been a major obstacle but today perhaps not so much.

 

Here is an interesting scenario:  Imagine a shipper somewhere in the Northeast loads a car of widgets and programs it for a consignee somewhere on the west coast.  The car takes off on a private, grade crossing fee right of way to the nearest hub center where it is automatically shunted onto a locomotive-drawn train with other cars bound for the same hub center in the West.  (The batteries and motors would only need to have enough wattage to get it from the shipper to the yard.)

 

When the train is ready, it takes off with perhaps 100+ cars and is also completely “driverless” but still has a single engineer in the cab whose sole responsibility is to take over the controls in the event of an emergency or some other unforeseen issue.

 

Upon arrival on the west coast, the train is automatically broken up and the driverless cars deliver themselves to their respective consignees.

 

Totally impossible?   I don’t believe it is.  Think about the implications and benefits not only for our industry but for the public as well.  A lot of dangerous trucks would be taken off the highways. 

As for Mr. Risch's notion that driverless trains "are a terrible idea", well, if he's right about that then driverless trucks are an even worse idea.  I stand by my belief that driverless trucks should NEVER be allowed on the Nation's highways.  To me the very thought of that is truly frightening.

 

As for a long, cross-country driverless freight train, I suspect the best plan forward there would be to make them driverless but still keep an engineman on board - just in case.

 

Regards,
Fred M. Cain