Electroliner 1935 I had an experience of trespassing about twenty years ago to view a coal train that ran to Commonwealth Edison's plant in Romeoville IL from a connection with the EJ&E. As I got to the vicinity of the track, I saw the train coming, coal cars first accompanied by a pick up truck on the road alongside the track with the driver/operator remote controlling the pushing unmaned locomotive. As this was a "private area" there was no grade crossings or other problems to encounter.
I had an experience of trespassing about twenty years ago to view a coal train that ran to Commonwealth Edison's plant in Romeoville IL from a connection with the EJ&E. As I got to the vicinity of the track, I saw the train coming, coal cars first accompanied by a pick up truck on the road alongside the track with the driver/operator remote controlling the pushing unmaned locomotive. As this was a "private area" there was no grade crossings or other problems to encounter.
There was at least one tresspasser that could have been a problem!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
BaltACD Murphy Siding It would be just like playing a video game for 8 hours a day. I'd guess about a fourth of my children’s’ generation already have the required skillset. All they would need is about 2 days of specific training so they knew which toadstool to kick to get the extra points. Drinking 2 liter bottles of Diet Mountain Dew and eating 2 big bags of Cheetos per shift is probably not that big a deal if you’re not in the actual cab of a locomotive. Suspect they would rapidly loose interest when their train was placed in a siding for other priority or opposing traffic. Railroading is not always a 'thrill ride' a lot of it is mind numbing waiting. Those roaming conductors won't offer much help when weather grounds them or prevents their movement around the territory.
Murphy Siding It would be just like playing a video game for 8 hours a day. I'd guess about a fourth of my children’s’ generation already have the required skillset. All they would need is about 2 days of specific training so they knew which toadstool to kick to get the extra points. Drinking 2 liter bottles of Diet Mountain Dew and eating 2 big bags of Cheetos per shift is probably not that big a deal if you’re not in the actual cab of a locomotive.
It would be just like playing a video game for 8 hours a day. I'd guess about a fourth of my children’s’ generation already have the required skillset. All they would need is about 2 days of specific training so they knew which toadstool to kick to get the extra points. Drinking 2 liter bottles of Diet Mountain Dew and eating 2 big bags of Cheetos per shift is probably not that big a deal if you’re not in the actual cab of a locomotive.
Suspect they would rapidly loose interest when their train was placed in a siding for other priority or opposing traffic. Railroading is not always a 'thrill ride' a lot of it is mind numbing waiting.
Those roaming conductors won't offer much help when weather grounds them or prevents their movement around the territory.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BaltACDRailroading is not always a 'thrill ride' a lot of it is mind numbing waiting.
With the catch, of course, that the PIC doing the 'waiting' continues to have to be vigilant that the train hasn't started creeping toward a foul, etc. The worst of both worlds in IxD.
The old golden-bullet use for telepresence was in precisely the situation where crews were required to 'man' trains being operated mostly automatically - the extensions of PTC and LEADER and so dorth we've mentioned in other threads being ample enough already to qualify. Operating in conditions of boredom while expecting 'screaming terror' through event or malfunction at any moment is well known to be a recipe for human disaster. Problem is... it's likely to be the fancy telepresence that fails or breaks...
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I wonder if the future might look more like having a virtual crew on the train. Instead of having a crew in the locomotive, the crew would be sitting in front of a video screen in Dallas, or Atlanta, or sadly -India. A good operator might be able to handle several trains at once. The conductor’s role would be taken care of by that group of roaming conductors in pickups or Ninjas in black helicopters.
Can you see 5 trains waiting on 1 driverless boxcar to clear up in the block, much less a whole fleet of them dispatched 1 at a time. Dude I have never laughed so hard in my life. Seriously, can you imagine blasting down the main at 60 mph and wondering what the local cement company is doing with their automated cars. *oops, paint spill* that. Keep your science experiments in the laboratory Frank, I have a job to do.
samfp1943 M636C wrote the following post [in part]: "...So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person..." Peter >**************************************************< I am somewhat certain that in the area of 'American shortline railroads'; One man crews are a practice that is not uncomon. Specifically, I have seen some WATCO trains with just an engineer in the cab. They also seem to have another crewman[conductor(?)] who follows a train in a pick-up truck, to throw switches and make changes when required to drop or pick up cars. I'm not sure how widespread this practice is, but I've observed it with some regularity, over time. I've also had some conversations with individuals who indicated, the single crewman, can, at times be required to change out a brakeshoe,fix air connections, fix a broken knuckle, and preform other duties, when the time, a lack of traffic, and a 'chaser' permits. I guess this whole single crewman issue becomes a tug of war between the employees, unions, and 'bean counters' . How far it will go in the USA remains to be seen?
M636C wrote the following post [in part]:
"...So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person..."
Peter
>**************************************************<
I am somewhat certain that in the area of 'American shortline railroads'; One man crews are a practice that is not uncomon. Specifically, I have seen some WATCO trains with just an engineer in the cab. They also seem to have another crewman[conductor(?)] who follows a train in a pick-up truck, to throw switches and make changes when required to drop or pick up cars.
I'm not sure how widespread this practice is, but I've observed it with some regularity, over time. I've also had some conversations with individuals who indicated, the single crewman, can, at times be required to change out a brakeshoe,fix air connections, fix a broken knuckle, and preform other duties, when the time, a lack of traffic, and a 'chaser' permits. I guess this whole single crewman issue becomes a tug of war between the employees, unions, and 'bean counters' . How far it will go in the USA remains to be seen?
Jeff
Murphy SidingI thought the answer was to fire a lot of people until everybody agreed the ducks were doing well and then have a press conference.Mischief
I can see a press conference with ducks; A whole lot of quacking going on.
Norm
Murphy Siding Semper Vaporo tree68 Murphy Siding What? Are you trying to tell me that trains are different from place to place and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all template? You need a bigger whip! I thought the answer was to fire a lot of people until everybody agreed the ducks were doing well and then have a press conference.
Semper Vaporo tree68 Murphy Siding What? Are you trying to tell me that trains are different from place to place and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all template? You need a bigger whip!
tree68 Murphy Siding What? Are you trying to tell me that trains are different from place to place and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all template?
Murphy Siding What? Are you trying to tell me that trains are different from place to place and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all template?
You need a bigger whip!
I thought the answer was to fire a lot of people until everybody agreed the ducks were doing well and then have a press conference.
At the press conference make sure that no one can see the ducks - because those ducks that remain still aren't lined up, in fact they are congested around closed facilities.
tree68How, pray tell, do you expect me to run a precision scheduled railroad if the ducks don't always line up?
Warning; lithp intentional:
Ducths in a row are cool but if they have steel wheels they will think rather than thwim.Quack quack, waddle waddle.
Murphy SidingWhat? Are you trying to tell me that trains are different from place to place and that there isn't a one-size-fits-all template?
How, pray tell, do you expect me to run a precision scheduled railroad if the ducks don't always line up?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
zugmann M636C So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person. Easy to do on a single commodity, single car owner, in captive service. Not as easy on the majority of American railroads.
M636C So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person.
Easy to do on a single commodity, single car owner, in captive service.
Not as easy on the majority of American railroads.
samfp1943M636C wrote the following post [in part]: "...So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person..." Peter >**************************************************< I am somewhat certain that in the area of 'American shortline railroads'; One man crews are a practice that is not uncomon. Specifically, I have seen some WATCO trains with just an engineer in the cab. They also seem to have another crewman[conductor(?)] who follows a train in a pick-up truck, to throw switches and make changes when required to drop or pick up cars. I'm not sure how widespread this practice is, but I've observed it with some regularity, over time. I've also had some conversations with individuals who indicated, the single crewman, can, at times be required to change out a brakeshoe,fix air connections, fix a broken knuckle, and preform other duties, when the time, a lack of traffic, and a 'chaser' permits. I guess this whole single crewman issue becomes a tug of war between the employees, unions, and 'bean counters' . How far it will go in the USA remains to be seen?
Short line working conditions and Class 1 working conditions are worlds apart in their scope.
M636CSo while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I'm disappointed that this discussion ended up about loco crews showing automobile driver's licences (or not) to local police.
As I indicated earlier, a lot of work has been done by Rio Tinto, and a visit to the other big operator BHP (until recently BHP Billiton) indicated that they were going to follow Rio Tinto into crewless operation as soon as it was demonstrated to be safe.
BHP had replaced all their fixed signals with in cab displays, although for the time being these will still operated on fixed blocks (ie a transducer located where the signal used to be indicates the status.
The theory about independent boxcars servicing individual customers has been raised before, in the UK among other places. As an intermediate step, the Germans produced some conventionally driven self propelled container cars. These were not successful for whatever reason, but the actual vehicles found a career in track maintenace, carrying a variety of containerised maintenance equipment (Leaf removal in fall in the UK, for example.)
The partial adoption of these systems has allowed the operation of huge iron ore trains through hundreds of miles of remote desert with one man per train. The adoption of ECP brakes (without the Westinghouse option) has contributed to the reliability of these trains.
As indicated by a careful reading of the AAR tests with unit tank car trains, the Westinghouse system has much greater variation in brake application times, even with service braking but particularly with emergency braking.
Going to all-ECP in unit trains that are rarely taken apart has resulted in predictable and reliable braking. The number of skidded wheels is substantially reduced.
The reduction in in-train forces through more even brake application has reduced the number of coupler failures. I've related earlier being on a train with conventional brakes on what is now Rio Tinto which broke in five places after an emergency application on a gentlle down gradient on straight track.
So while these trains will probably require a crew on board for some time to come, it will almost certainly be only one person.
I think you know that answer ... ;)
rdamonNot sure if a passport photo would work, but the post office, CVS, walgreen's, walmart and others can do it for around $10. also the new DL's are differnt now .. need everything including a note from your mother .. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
also the new DL's are differnt now .. need everything including a note from your mother ..
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
All in the name of security. Real or illusory?
Not sure if a passport photo would work, but the post office, CVS, walgreen's, walmart and others can do it for around $10.
The picture on my railroad issued ID, not my railroad issued Engineer's license, is fading fast. (Still, an above average likeness.) I only use the plain ID to check into the motel. Others use their license certificate. I only take it out when requested by management (haven't been asked by the FRA yet) and then back into the wallet. There have been times when the desk clerk at motels have mixed up the IDs when returning them.
Which reminds me I need a new plain ID. I need to have my picture taken at a camera (kind of like the kind at the DMV) in the terminal office. The problem is only one manager knows how to run it. Finding any manager actually being in the office is hard enough, let alone the specific one.
zugmannMaybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
You may be right. Unfortunately, after a couple of years in their wallet, some folk's cards are illegible. Makes it hard to sign them after check rides, etc. We haven't gotten to nice plastic IDs with your picture, yet.
At least I know that if I have my grip, I've got all my documentation.
tree68I carry my RR cards in my grip. There are those who don't even carry their wallet (and thus their DLIC) when they're working.
I was always told you need to carry your certification (conductor, RCO, engineer) on your person. So if I'm outside throwing switches, the FRA can walk up to me and I must have my certs on me. Not in my grip or on the engine (or locker room).
Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
BaltACDCrews are cautioned to never show their Drivers License to local authorities - only their Railroad Certification cards. Locals are all too willing to apply Driver License points to incidents involving trains.
I carry my RR cards in my grip. There are those who don't even carry their wallet (and thus their DLIC) when they're working.
"uhh.. what's the license plate number on this train?" -- officer to one of our crews after they hit a truck at a crossing.
I always thought RRs should provide training to trackside police jurisdictions.
Fred M CainAnother question is that usually when someone gets a ticket in Indiana they get negative "points" agains their drivers license. So, how is this gonna work with a train since that is not a motor vehicle to used on the highways? Regards, Fred M. Cain
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
Crews are cautioned to never show their Drivers License to local authorities - only their Railroad Certification cards. Locals are all too willing to apply Driver License points to incidents involving trains.
quote user="zugmann"]
Overmod
I am frankly astounded that the last Administration, with its vast knowledge of community organizing, did not take a leaf from the 55mph speed limit boondoggle. Bet your bottom dollar that every little burg along the way would happily use a subsidized laser gun to track trains going through town, with a nice TCP/IP connection more or less straight to corporate. A whole nation full of weed weasels, encouraged by appeals to civic duty... or worse. And then there is the automated-camera-on-a-pole adjunct to impromptu banner tests everywhere and often... and all of it justified by expedient national policy or whatever.
Our engines already have satellite tracking (much of it real time). And people still do call the police all the time when they think trains are going "too fast". Police happily take the reports and then ask them "uhh.. and what do you want us to do?"
[/quote]
Near where I live, the Goshen, Indiana police were attempting to ticket NS crews for a while for blocked crossings. Right after the split-up of Conrail it was particulary bad. The Elkhart yard was filling up and there was no track space to bring in road crews so they were backing up on the main and blocking crossings.
I have always wondered about how this was resolved. Do local authorities actually have the authority to do this? I somehow thought that local authorities have no or little jurisdiction when it comes to interstate traffic. Probably in the interest of good community relations, NS just paid the tickets but I don't know that either.
Another question is that usually when someone gets a ticket in Indiana they get negative "points" agains their drivers license. So, how is this gonna work with a train since that is not a motor vehicle to used on the highways?
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