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NIMBY or NIMLR?

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, October 7, 2017 2:55 PM

It was a lawsuit that put a well-known and well respected fire apparatus manufacturer out of business after a firefighter fell off one of their trucks.  One key factor was a railing that the manufacturer normally installed around the back of the cab.  The lawyers questioned why, if firefighters weren't supposed to stand up and hang on to said railing, was it installed in the first place?  Apparently that resonated with the jury, who found for the plaintiff.  

And that, my friends, is why you can no longer buy Pirsch fire apparatus.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, October 7, 2017 1:54 PM

It is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back.  Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them.  From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one.  https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09 

It is some good reading if you want.  

 

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, October 7, 2017 1:29 PM

 

It gets back to that age old question about how close to a moving freight train you can stand and still be safe.    

 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 7, 2017 9:17 AM

Whatever the mix of self-insurance vs. commercial coverage might be, it should be quickly remembered that Consolidated Freightways, one of the largest motor carriers, essentially ceased to be in less than a week when part of their coverage was terminated.  According to their CFO (who was a friend, and who would know) they preferred terminating runs immediately to running the risk of even one major accident paid for out of ‘self-coverage’. 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:46 AM

BaltACD wrote the following post[in part] 

"...Railroads carry 'Catastrophic' insurance.  I don't know what the 'deductable' is, however I suspect it is $100M or more.  For everything under the level of the deductable, the railroad is self insured..."

    There is a provision in the Federal Motor Carrier Rules that provides[in the case of Motor Carriers] that at, or above a certain 'value level'(?) ,they are allowed to become self-insured.        I do not remember those specific numbers, but many 'medium' or 'large' carriers that qualify, do carry an insurance policy that might be classified as a 'catastrophic' coverage.[ Generally, on a per single incident basis(?)]. I would imagine that that coverage would be based on the size of the carrier, and would be in increments,most probably, of a million dollars, or any part there of. Depending upon the individual carrier's insurance/protective strategy.

 

 


 

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:09 AM

samfp1943
I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad. 

This happens in public safety as well.  Most larger fire and police departments have Public Information Officers who deal with the press.  The top brass only comes on camera for the really big stuff.  Even smaller agencies may have someone who usually does all the talking.  Saves you from getting some guy who doesn't really want to be on camera (which often shows).

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 6, 2017 10:14 PM

samfp1943
 
n012944
 
Shadow the Cats owner

I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville.  Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.   

If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 10000ft.  That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft. 

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad?  It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days. 

         IT seems that the Long Train/Short Train argument will be with us for some time; not only on CSX, but elsewhere as well...That 'train length' , would seem to be only a tool in the 'tool box' necessary to run a railroad(?)

          Can't speak to recent times, but when I retired, the Trucking Industry, used its Insurance exposures as a tool to manage risk in the 'sea' of Legal Justice, to help 'manage' its legal outcomes. 

         A company would use its history, to determine the amount of exposure, to sell its operational risks for a fiscal year. The amount decided on then became a figure to bid out to an insurance company, for that period of time.    At that point, the insurance brokerage company, through a network of adjusters, would dispatch one of those 'trained' adjusters to the scene of an incident to manage it for the trucking company. [ that included making decisions as to how it was 'cleaned up',how the media/press was delt with on the scene]. The thought being, that no one could be quoted, as an employee of the company involved. [ie: an employee who was wearing a company logo on their clothing, could not be shown on a news broadcast: pr represented as a 'representative' of that Company. Drivers were informed, that they were to make no public comentaries.]

               Thus, the owning carrier, had a better position 'IF' there were following Legal/Court actions. The adjuster on the scene was just a 'tool' doing a job at that location; and not representative of the involved company.   

          I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad.   Maybe, the railroad feels 'safer', having their own Legal Staff on their payrolls?  My 2 Cents 

Railroads carry 'Catastrophic' insurance.  I don't know what the 'deductable' is, however I suspect it is $100M or more.  For everything under the level of the deductable, the railroad is self insured.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, October 6, 2017 9:43 PM

n012944
 
Shadow the Cats owner

I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville.  Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.  

 

 

 

 

If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 1000ft.  That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft.

 

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad?  It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days.

 

         IT seems that the Long Train/Short Train argument will be with us for some time; not only on CSX, but elsewhere as well...That 'train length' , would seem to be only a tool in the 'tool box' necessary to run a railroad(?)

          Can't speak to recent times, but when I retired, the Trucking Industry, used its Insurance exposures as a tool to manage risk in the 'sea' of Legal Justice, to help 'manage' its legal outcomes. 

         A company would use its history, to determine the amount of exposure, to sell its operational risks for a fiscal year. The amount decided on then became a figure to bid out to an insurance company, for that period of time.    At that point, the insurance brokerage company, through a network of adjusters, would dispatch one of those 'trained' adjusters to the scene of an incident to manage it for the trucking company. [ that included making decisions as to how it was 'cleaned up',how the media/press was delt with on the scene]. The thought being, that no one could be quoted, as an employee of the company involved. [ie: an employee who was wearing a company logo on their clothing, could not be shown on a news broadcast: pr represented as a 'representative' of that Company. Drivers were informed, that they were to make no public comentaries.]

               Thus, the owning carrier, had a better position 'IF' there were following Legal/Court actions. The adjuster on the scene was just a 'tool' doing a job at that location; and not representative of the involved company.   

          I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad.   Maybe, the railroad feels 'safer', having their own Legal Staff on their payrolls?  My 2 Cents 

 

 


 

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Posted by n012944 on Friday, October 6, 2017 6:43 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville.  Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.  

 

 

If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 1000ft.  That length makes sense, since that region has limited manifest trains to 10000ft.

 

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad?  It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, October 6, 2017 1:17 PM

ChuckCobleigh

 
Reminds me of a picture of the ET&WNC narrow guage RR  about 7 miles out of Elizabethton, Tn. that had a house built around the tracks.
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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, October 6, 2017 7:32 AM

MidlandMike

IIRC the recent CSX derailment at the bottom of the Sand Patch grade also impacted a house.

 

Hunter Hates Houses!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, October 5, 2017 7:07 PM

IIRC the recent CSX derailment at the bottom of the Sand Patch grade also impacted a house.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 5, 2017 1:33 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville.  Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.  

In the overall scheme of railroading - 14 car derailment is no big deal.  Jacksonville was informed within 30 minutes of the happening.  Who knows when EHH was notified - but it wasn't by the TM on the scene.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, October 5, 2017 12:57 PM
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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Thursday, October 5, 2017 10:09 AM

I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville.  Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.  

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:35 AM

Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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NIMBY or NIMLR?
Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, October 5, 2017 7:33 AM

Yikes!

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/train-derails-crashes-into-house-in-nw-atlanta/480954811

190 car CSX train derails and crashes into house.  Not In My Living Room?

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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