Electroliner 1935Could there be a piece of steel strapping hanging off that could cut me in pieces?
Was on our platform in Utica one evening when an eastbound CSX manifest train came through the station on Track Two (meaning there was another track between the train and our platform).
Not far from the end of the train we spotted a rather large chain bouncing along the ROW, hanging from a flat car. If it had hit someone, or snagged something, it would not have been pretty.
We were able to contact the CSX dispatcher about it, but the train was out of sight by then so I have no idea what the end story was.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Electroliner 1935 When I was commuting to Chicago, I watched as the express trains went through the station at 70 mph and be about a foot or two away, and sometimes while as a freight train would pass at 45 mph and think about all that could go wrong. Could there be a piece of steel strapping hanging off that could cut me in pieces? Would the train derail? The odd's said no but the thought said "S--T HAPPENS" but still I stood there. And I am still here. One lady who worked in our office was blind but commuted by C&NW (now UP) from Lombard to the Loop everyday and she would stand on the platform as the train would come into the station. Still amazed she could do that. If its your time........
When I was commuting to Chicago, I watched as the express trains went through the station at 70 mph and be about a foot or two away, and sometimes while as a freight train would pass at 45 mph and think about all that could go wrong. Could there be a piece of steel strapping hanging off that could cut me in pieces? Would the train derail? The odd's said no but the thought said "S--T HAPPENS" but still I stood there. And I am still here. One lady who worked in our office was blind but commuted by C&NW (now UP) from Lombard to the Loop everyday and she would stand on the platform as the train would come into the station. Still amazed she could do that.
If its your time........
In the summer of 1972, at the age of 15, I spent the summer away from home, working full time in Harpers Ferry West Virginia. I was working for the owners of a hobby shop who moved their business from Maryland to Harpers Ferry, and who were building an HO scale diorama depicting the events of John Browns raid. I worked in the store and helped build the model.
In my off time, often with a co-worker also my age, we sat on the station platform bench and watched the trains roll by on the B&O.
One evening, after several hours watching trains, we headed back to our apartment. As we climbed the steps up to High St, another train rolled through, and then we heard the crash........as a derailed car struck the passenger platform, sending a bearing cap into a parked auto in the station lot, and scattering freight cars from the station to the middle of the Potomac River bridge before the train came to a stop.
In those days the station platforms extended out onto the bridge. The very platform we were sitting on was heavily damaged and full of derailed cars. The station building escaped serious damage......
It took three days to clear the wreck and repair the track, the station platform took a little longer........
We were just lucky........or being watched over......
Sheldon
Shadow the Cats ownerI have some info on that Knight case. My hubby's cousin works for the insurance company that provided their catastrophic coverage. He looked as a favor he can as an actuary aka underwriting specialist for a bad behavior company. Those actions cost Knight 250 million in the settlement. Plus her legal fees. The driver of the truck is doing 15 years in prison for vechiular homicide and felonious fleeing the scene of a fatal accident. So yes someone was held responsible. After this case was settled Knight couldn't afford secondary insurance anymore.
The driver of the truck is doing 15 years in prison for vechiular homicide and felonious fleeing the scene of a fatal accident. So yes someone was held responsible. After this case was settled Knight couldn't afford secondary insurance anymore.
From this article, it sounds like Knight had enough financial wherewithall to take control of Swift.
https://www.trucks.com/2017/04/10/knight-transportation-swift-trucking-merger/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDOver the years a number of stations and interlocking towers have been destroyed in derailments.
Photos taken at the Deshler Railroad Park often include the station across the tracks and the patch there on from a coal train derailment some years ago... Kind of a graphic reminder of how things can go wrong...
It's one thing when it's an old structure in an old setting. When they allow new residential structures within 50 feet and then whine about the noise and vibration, it's quite something else. (one of them within 25 feet of the busiest piece of railroad in the state of CO) Knuckleheads at City of Denver have allowed several of these "stupid zones" to exist with no consequences (The arrogant City bubbas can do no wrong, just ask them.) As I said earlier, CSX just bought a house.
Somebody needs to chill or not get their shorts all up in a bunch.
Over the years a number of stations and interlocking towers have been destroyed in derailments.
The father of one of my fellow dispatchers was killed while working in the tower at Confluence, PA in a derailment.
When things derail it is difficult to tell what a 'safe' distance away from the track is. The physics of momentum of tonnage that has to be dissapated to zero will be doing it's own dance.
tree68 It probably is. Human nature, however, would have people creeping past the line if it were further out, and that probably would put them really too close.
It probably is. Human nature, however, would have people creeping past the line if it were further out, and that probably would put them really too close.
EuclidI have had people tell me that stopping at the white line at grade crossings is way too close.
BaltACD oltmannd I've had people tell me all sorts of silly things. A locomotive engineer once told me the magnetic tape event recorder under the cab floor magnatized his watch. More likely the magnetic fields surrounding the Main Generator and/or traction motors were responsible for magnatizing his cheap watch. Railroad approved watches have been designed with those electrical fields in mind.
oltmannd I've had people tell me all sorts of silly things. A locomotive engineer once told me the magnetic tape event recorder under the cab floor magnatized his watch.
More likely the magnetic fields surrounding the Main Generator and/or traction motors were responsible for magnatizing his cheap watch. Railroad approved watches have been designed with those electrical fields in mind.
No doubt - if it even was the locomotive at all.
He was just angry about event recorders being installed and venting a the first manangement person that wandered by....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmanndI've had people tell me all sorts of silly things. A locomotive engineer once told me the magnetic tape event recorder under the cab floor magnatized his watch.
Euclid For safe distance, I was just thinking of what would be reasonably safe, not trying to eliminate 100% of all life's risk. What would a public safety expert recommend? I have had people tell me that stopping at the white line at grade crossings is way too close.
For safe distance, I was just thinking of what would be reasonably safe, not trying to eliminate 100% of all life's risk. What would a public safety expert recommend? I have had people tell me that stopping at the white line at grade crossings is way too close.
I've had people tell me all sorts of silly things. A locomotive engineer once told me the magnetic tape event recorder under the cab floor magnatized his watch.
The white line is part of standard highway marking which should be based on what's considered a safe distance.
How safe is "safe enough"? I don't know of any published standard.
Usually, changes in standards, like where to paint the white line, are based on the incremental cost and benefit.
Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon
mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car.
Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car.
"Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best.......
I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years.
So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses?
The solution is trivial. Don't have houses near railroads. The implementation is troublesome.
Euclid It gets back to that age old question about how close to a moving freight train you can stand and still be safe.
It gets back to that age old question about how close to a moving freight train you can stand and still be safe.
Depends on what level of risk to you consider "safe". 99.999%? Then, 20 miles should do.
I have some info on that Knight case. My hubby's cousin works for the insurance company that provided their catastrophic coverage. He looked as a favor he can as an actuary aka underwriting specialist for a bad behavior company. Those actions cost Knight 250 million in the settlement. Plus her legal fees.
Firelock76 Sheldon, that's a beautiful old house you have, I'm jealous! Probably has a nice big basement perfect for an O gauge layout too. That turret looks like it'd make a perfect reading room as well. And thanks Sam! "Silver Rail Club" has a number of posted videos on the "Classic Toy Trains" site. Just head over there, click "Reader Videos" and start having fun.
Sheldon, that's a beautiful old house you have, I'm jealous! Probably has a nice big basement perfect for an O gauge layout too. That turret looks like it'd make a perfect reading room as well.
And thanks Sam! "Silver Rail Club" has a number of posted videos on the "Classic Toy Trains" site. Just head over there, click "Reader Videos" and start having fun.
Thank you for the kind words.
Actually the basement, while big, is not the best place for model trains, low headroom, pipes, ducts, etc.
My model trains, HO scale, are in the second floor of the detached garage that you can see the corner of on the left side ofthe picture.
That building has a heated and cooled finished 2nd floor train room 22' x 40'.
But my model building workshop is in the basement of the house.....
The house was built in 1901, we purchased it in 1995 and did major restoration which took three years. The house is located in a small rural village that was once a stop on the Ma & Pa RR. The tracks ran right behind the house about a 1/4 mile back. The 1914 station is about 10 houses from us.
Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses? Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either. Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state? How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety...... I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding. Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above.......... We don't have that much money.......... Sheldon PS - a thought about "risk" - riding in a car on a public highway is at the top of the list, I do that everyday. Removing all risk is impossible........ I am just asking as a practical question. The railroad owns their corridor, and the adjacent homeowners own their lots. Each has a right to occupy their land, and no right to occupy each other's land.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses? Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either. Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state? How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety...... I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding. Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above.......... We don't have that much money.......... Sheldon PS - a thought about "risk" - riding in a car on a public highway is at the top of the list, I do that everyday. Removing all risk is impossible........
Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either.
Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state?
How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety......
I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding.
Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above..........
We don't have that much money..........
I am just asking as a practical question. The railroad owns their corridor, and the adjacent homeowners own their lots. Each has a right to occupy their land, and no right to occupy each other's land.
And the practical answer is that if I buy/rent a house next to the tracks then I understand that it comes with noise, vibration, risk of derailment, dirt, diesel exhaust, etc.
If the railroad fails to keep their trains on their property, we have a world full of lawyers and insurance companies, as is being discussed above.
Likewise if I fail to keep my pets, children, livestock, power boat on a trailer, etc, etc, off the railroads property, I subject myself to additional risk for which I will be responsible.....
If any of these risks/responsibilities are unacceptable to me, I am free to live elsewhere.....
I live on a busy two lane state highway that makes pulling out of my driveway more dangerous than if I lived in a quiet subdivision court. I understand and accept that risk, and the noise of the added traffic, and the added risk stopping to make a left turn into my driveway, and the added risk doing my yardwork along the front edge of my property.
If I step out in the street in front of a car while edging my lawn and get hit, that is my fault.
If a car leaves the roadway and comes onto my yard and hits me, it's his fault.
There is clearly a higher chance of that happening on my street than in a quiet subdivison - I understood that difference when I bought the property.
But I choose to live here:
Rather than in a place where one house looks just like the next......
I made my choices and accepted the risks.....I am a grown up.......
Firelock76 ChuckCobleigh beat me to it, but this is a cute variation on the theme, with a live demonstration! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRz22Imjut4 Courtesy of the "Silver Rail Club" and "Classic Toy Trains."
ChuckCobleigh beat me to it, but this is a cute variation on the theme, with a live demonstration!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRz22Imjut4
Courtesy of the "Silver Rail Club" and "Classic Toy Trains."
Had not heard that song in years.... The Silver Rail Club/Gang did a beautiful job on that video.
A driver participating in three different classes of cars in our National Championships was 'sponsored' by Knight Transportation.
Shadow the Cats owner It is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09 It is some good reading if you want.
It is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09
It is some good reading if you want.
They were a 'neighbor' of Swift Trans. in Phoenix, and after reading the posted link, I can understand why many of their trailers were' scrubbed of their logos', and are running in somebody's TOFC pool service. See them regularly, riding on BNSF TOFC moves through here. That Swift Trans. ( Moyes&Co(?). 'bought' them out, would seem to be a no-brainer; I'd bet that the price was a fire-sale bargain; and that Knight's equipment got de-identified PDQ tells a whole other story. I have seen from time to time over the last few years, equipment from the company I worked for 16 years ago, after they 'Swiftly' were bought out.
IMHO, the crux of Knight's legal problems, and ultimate demise was a situation of their own making. A driver's Log Book in a court, is sacrosanct information. Particularly, when it is used as an exhibit in a court, and found to be falsified to cover a fatality accident.
Qualcomm messages are normally recorded in a Company's main frame, they are deleted at a preset intervals, unless they are flagged by 'Safety' as important testimony for a pending case. Truck mounted Qualcom units ' report locations, on a 'regular' schedule; when they are used to pass messages between drivers and dispatch; each message, in that case is 'located'. Qualcom units can be disabled by a driver, but it is essentially inoperable at that point. In this case, the driver did not disable it; he drove it to a 'home area' abandoning it; which allowed Knight Trans to track its location, and recover the tractor.
As to the front tire replacement, it was noted in the replacement work order that the front tires were replaced, and the used carcasses were 'buffed' off. A precursor action to having the carcass recapped, for re-use by the owner, Knight Trans. Recapping front tires; is a common industry practice, to get the maximum useability out of an expensive tire carcass..
As to the driver 'fleeing the scene', it was a complete violation of many company's work rules...Normally, a cause for immediate termination. There seems to be 'culpability' at many levels of the trucking company organization, IMHO. I am sort of surprised that there were apparently, no jail sentences handed out(?).
tree68 It was a lawsuit that put a well-known and well respected fire apparatus manufacturer out of business after a firefighter fell off one of their trucks. One key factor was a railing that the manufacturer normally installed around the back of the cab. The lawyers questioned why, if firefighters weren't supposed to stand up and hang on to said railing, was it installed in the first place? Apparently that resonated with the jury, who found for the plaintiff. And that, my friends, is why you can no longer buy Pirsch fire apparatus.
It was a lawsuit that put a well-known and well respected fire apparatus manufacturer out of business after a firefighter fell off one of their trucks. One key factor was a railing that the manufacturer normally installed around the back of the cab. The lawyers questioned why, if firefighters weren't supposed to stand up and hang on to said railing, was it installed in the first place? Apparently that resonated with the jury, who found for the plaintiff.
And that, my friends, is why you can no longer buy Pirsch fire apparatus.
Larry,
That suit, and I'm sure others, are why firefighters are now required to ride in enclosed cabs. In the sixties tail-boards were acceptable; no more.
Norm
Shadow the Cats ownerIt is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09 It is some good reading if you want.
Trucking companies - even the biggest - don't have the capitalization and financial resources of Class 1 railroads. A single mildly catastrophic incident can bankrupt a trucking company with ease. With a Class 1 railroad - not so much.
While the Lac Magnetic incident did cause the financial failure of the MM&A - it was not a Class 1. It was a short line, already operating on a wing and a prayer as evidenced by the engine failure that led to the catastrophic chain of events.
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