Yikes!
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/train-derails-crashes-into-house-in-nw-atlanta/480954811
190 car CSX train derails and crashes into house. Not In My Living Room?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car.
I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.
This comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4BYdTrkWoo
Shadow the Cats ownerI would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.
In the overall scheme of railroading - 14 car derailment is no big deal. Jacksonville was informed within 30 minutes of the happening. Who knows when EHH was notified - but it wasn't by the TM on the scene.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
IIRC the recent CSX derailment at the bottom of the Sand Patch grade also impacted a house.
MidlandMike IIRC the recent CSX derailment at the bottom of the Sand Patch grade also impacted a house.
Hunter Hates Houses!
ChuckCobleigh This comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4BYdTrkWoo
Shadow the Cats owner I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run.
If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 1000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manifest trains to 10000ft.
But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad? It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Shadow the Cats owner I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run. If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 1000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad? It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days.
If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 1000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft.
IT seems that the Long Train/Short Train argument will be with us for some time; not only on CSX, but elsewhere as well...That 'train length' , would seem to be only a tool in the 'tool box' necessary to run a railroad(?)
Can't speak to recent times, but when I retired, the Trucking Industry, used its Insurance exposures as a tool to manage risk in the 'sea' of Legal Justice, to help 'manage' its legal outcomes.
A company would use its history, to determine the amount of exposure, to sell its operational risks for a fiscal year. The amount decided on then became a figure to bid out to an insurance company, for that period of time. At that point, the insurance brokerage company, through a network of adjusters, would dispatch one of those 'trained' adjusters to the scene of an incident to manage it for the trucking company. [ that included making decisions as to how it was 'cleaned up',how the media/press was delt with on the scene]. The thought being, that no one could be quoted, as an employee of the company involved. [ie: an employee who was wearing a company logo on their clothing, could not be shown on a news broadcast: pr represented as a 'representative' of that Company. Drivers were informed, that they were to make no public comentaries.]
Thus, the owning carrier, had a better position 'IF' there were following Legal/Court actions. The adjuster on the scene was just a 'tool' doing a job at that location; and not representative of the involved company.
I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad. Maybe, the railroad feels 'safer', having their own Legal Staff on their payrolls?
samfp1943 n012944 Shadow the Cats owner I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run. If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 10000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad? It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days. IT seems that the Long Train/Short Train argument will be with us for some time; not only on CSX, but elsewhere as well...That 'train length' , would seem to be only a tool in the 'tool box' necessary to run a railroad(?) Can't speak to recent times, but when I retired, the Trucking Industry, used its Insurance exposures as a tool to manage risk in the 'sea' of Legal Justice, to help 'manage' its legal outcomes. A company would use its history, to determine the amount of exposure, to sell its operational risks for a fiscal year. The amount decided on then became a figure to bid out to an insurance company, for that period of time. At that point, the insurance brokerage company, through a network of adjusters, would dispatch one of those 'trained' adjusters to the scene of an incident to manage it for the trucking company. [ that included making decisions as to how it was 'cleaned up',how the media/press was delt with on the scene]. The thought being, that no one could be quoted, as an employee of the company involved. [ie: an employee who was wearing a company logo on their clothing, could not be shown on a news broadcast: pr represented as a 'representative' of that Company. Drivers were informed, that they were to make no public comentaries.] Thus, the owning carrier, had a better position 'IF' there were following Legal/Court actions. The adjuster on the scene was just a 'tool' doing a job at that location; and not representative of the involved company. I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad. Maybe, the railroad feels 'safer', having their own Legal Staff on their payrolls?
n012944 Shadow the Cats owner I would not want to be that trainmaster in the morning making that call to Jacksonville. Hello Mr VP we owe someone in Atlanta a new house as we put a gondola thru theirs last night thanks to EHH and his 19K monsters we now run. If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 10000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an E.H.H. rant from someone not involved with the railroad? It seems that is what every CSX thread on this site boils down to these days.
If you bothered to read the article, it stated the train was two miles long, or around 10000ft. That length makes sense, since that region has limited manafest trains to 10000ft.
Railroads carry 'Catastrophic' insurance. I don't know what the 'deductable' is, however I suspect it is $100M or more. For everything under the level of the deductable, the railroad is self insured.
samfp1943 I have noticed, over time, that when a rail envolved accident happens, the 'spokesperson' on a scene, who is represented, on camera, by a media type. Will always be introduced as a spokesperson; and that individual always appears, wearing their [railroad] mandated safety gear, and is always given credit as speaking for a specific railroad.
This happens in public safety as well. Most larger fire and police departments have Public Information Officers who deal with the press. The top brass only comes on camera for the really big stuff. Even smaller agencies may have someone who usually does all the talking. Saves you from getting some guy who doesn't really want to be on camera (which often shows).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD wrote the following post[in part]
"...Railroads carry 'Catastrophic' insurance. I don't know what the 'deductable' is, however I suspect it is $100M or more. For everything under the level of the deductable, the railroad is self insured..."
There is a provision in the Federal Motor Carrier Rules that provides[in the case of Motor Carriers] that at, or above a certain 'value level'(?) ,they are allowed to become self-insured. I do not remember those specific numbers, but many 'medium' or 'large' carriers that qualify, do carry an insurance policy that might be classified as a 'catastrophic' coverage.[ Generally, on a per single incident basis(?)]. I would imagine that that coverage would be based on the size of the carrier, and would be in increments,most probably, of a million dollars, or any part there of. Depending upon the individual carrier's insurance/protective strategy.
Whatever the mix of self-insurance vs. commercial coverage might be, it should be quickly remembered that Consolidated Freightways, one of the largest motor carriers, essentially ceased to be in less than a week when part of their coverage was terminated. According to their CFO (who was a friend, and who would know) they preferred terminating runs immediately to running the risk of even one major accident paid for out of ‘self-coverage’.
It gets back to that age old question about how close to a moving freight train you can stand and still be safe.
It is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09
It is some good reading if you want.
It was a lawsuit that put a well-known and well respected fire apparatus manufacturer out of business after a firefighter fell off one of their trucks. One key factor was a railing that the manufacturer normally installed around the back of the cab. The lawyers questioned why, if firefighters weren't supposed to stand up and hang on to said railing, was it installed in the first place? Apparently that resonated with the jury, who found for the plaintiff.
And that, my friends, is why you can no longer buy Pirsch fire apparatus.
Shadow the Cats ownerIt is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09 It is some good reading if you want.
Trucking companies - even the biggest - don't have the capitalization and financial resources of Class 1 railroads. A single mildly catastrophic incident can bankrupt a trucking company with ease. With a Class 1 railroad - not so much.
While the Lac Magnetic incident did cause the financial failure of the MM&A - it was not a Class 1. It was a short line, already operating on a wing and a prayer as evidenced by the engine failure that led to the catastrophic chain of events.
tree68 It was a lawsuit that put a well-known and well respected fire apparatus manufacturer out of business after a firefighter fell off one of their trucks. One key factor was a railing that the manufacturer normally installed around the back of the cab. The lawyers questioned why, if firefighters weren't supposed to stand up and hang on to said railing, was it installed in the first place? Apparently that resonated with the jury, who found for the plaintiff. And that, my friends, is why you can no longer buy Pirsch fire apparatus.
Larry,
That suit, and I'm sure others, are why firefighters are now required to ride in enclosed cabs. In the sixties tail-boards were acceptable; no more.
Norm
Shadow the Cats owner It is a rumor that I have heard from several sources that part of the reason why Knight was just bought by Swift was due to an accident they had a few years back. Here is the case basics and what the Judge did to them. From what my boss heard their Insurance compaines that handled their Cat Insurance said YOYO idiots and threw them under the bus in this one. https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20110224a09 It is some good reading if you want.
They were a 'neighbor' of Swift Trans. in Phoenix, and after reading the posted link, I can understand why many of their trailers were' scrubbed of their logos', and are running in somebody's TOFC pool service. See them regularly, riding on BNSF TOFC moves through here. That Swift Trans. ( Moyes&Co(?). 'bought' them out, would seem to be a no-brainer; I'd bet that the price was a fire-sale bargain; and that Knight's equipment got de-identified PDQ tells a whole other story. I have seen from time to time over the last few years, equipment from the company I worked for 16 years ago, after they 'Swiftly' were bought out.
IMHO, the crux of Knight's legal problems, and ultimate demise was a situation of their own making. A driver's Log Book in a court, is sacrosanct information. Particularly, when it is used as an exhibit in a court, and found to be falsified to cover a fatality accident.
Qualcomm messages are normally recorded in a Company's main frame, they are deleted at a preset intervals, unless they are flagged by 'Safety' as important testimony for a pending case. Truck mounted Qualcom units ' report locations, on a 'regular' schedule; when they are used to pass messages between drivers and dispatch; each message, in that case is 'located'. Qualcom units can be disabled by a driver, but it is essentially inoperable at that point. In this case, the driver did not disable it; he drove it to a 'home area' abandoning it; which allowed Knight Trans to track its location, and recover the tractor.
As to the front tire replacement, it was noted in the replacement work order that the front tires were replaced, and the used carcasses were 'buffed' off. A precursor action to having the carcass recapped, for re-use by the owner, Knight Trans. Recapping front tires; is a common industry practice, to get the maximum useability out of an expensive tire carcass..
As to the driver 'fleeing the scene', it was a complete violation of many company's work rules...Normally, a cause for immediate termination. There seems to be 'culpability' at many levels of the trucking company organization, IMHO. I am sort of surprised that there were apparently, no jail sentences handed out(?).
A driver participating in three different classes of cars in our National Championships was 'sponsored' by Knight Transportation.
mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car.
"Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best.......
I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years.
Sheldon
ChuckCobleigh beat me to it, but this is a cute variation on the theme, with a live demonstration!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRz22Imjut4
Courtesy of the "Silver Rail Club" and "Classic Toy Trains."
ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon
So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses?
Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses?
Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either.
Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state?
How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety......
I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding.
Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above..........
We don't have that much money..........
Firelock76 ChuckCobleigh beat me to it, but this is a cute variation on the theme, with a live demonstration! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRz22Imjut4 Courtesy of the "Silver Rail Club" and "Classic Toy Trains."
Had not heard that song in years.... The Silver Rail Club/Gang did a beautiful job on that video.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses? Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either. Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state? How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety...... I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding. Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above.......... We don't have that much money.......... Sheldon PS - a thought about "risk" - riding in a car on a public highway is at the top of the list, I do that everyday. Removing all risk is impossible........
I am just asking as a practical question. The railroad owns their corridor, and the adjacent homeowners own their lots. Each has a right to occupy their land, and no right to occupy each other's land.
Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL Euclid ATLANTIC CENTRAL mudchicken Faulty urban planning...Looks like CSX buys a house unless there is a culprit car issue with a lease car. "Faulty urban planning"? I hope that was sarcasm considering the architecture of the house suggests it is 50-100 years old and the location appears to be the "rural suburbs" at best....... I would not have to spend more than 20 mins to take pictures of 100 houses or similar structures along the tracks here in northeastern Maryland.....most have been there 50 to 120 years. Sheldon So what is the solution to prevent trains from hitting houses? Well, I'm not suggesting we see how many new houses we can build right up against the tracks, but I'm not going to usurp the property rights of existing property owners and tell them they have to move so we can tear down their houses either. Has all levels of common sense been given over to the nanny state? How often does this happen? lots of buildings, houses, structures of all sort are near railroad tracks. All pose risks to people during derailments.......My daughter and grandchildren live 150' from the Northeast Corridor, as AMTRAK trains wiz by at 88 mph........I don't fear for their safety...... I know, every railroad right of way should include a 1/4 mile buffer of open land on each side to avoid possible injury or property damage in a derailment. Passengers will be required to stay outside the 1/4 buffer zone until the train comes to a complete stop. No train traffic will be allowed to pass parked trains while passengers are in the buffer zone for boarding. Just like the grade crossing question, build a bridge at every driveway and rural road, and while we are at it, make all those bridges as long a span as possible so derailments under them run little risk of damaging the bridge or effecting the traffic above.......... We don't have that much money.......... Sheldon PS - a thought about "risk" - riding in a car on a public highway is at the top of the list, I do that everyday. Removing all risk is impossible........ I am just asking as a practical question. The railroad owns their corridor, and the adjacent homeowners own their lots. Each has a right to occupy their land, and no right to occupy each other's land.
And the practical answer is that if I buy/rent a house next to the tracks then I understand that it comes with noise, vibration, risk of derailment, dirt, diesel exhaust, etc.
If the railroad fails to keep their trains on their property, we have a world full of lawyers and insurance companies, as is being discussed above.
Likewise if I fail to keep my pets, children, livestock, power boat on a trailer, etc, etc, off the railroads property, I subject myself to additional risk for which I will be responsible.....
If any of these risks/responsibilities are unacceptable to me, I am free to live elsewhere.....
I live on a busy two lane state highway that makes pulling out of my driveway more dangerous than if I lived in a quiet subdivision court. I understand and accept that risk, and the noise of the added traffic, and the added risk stopping to make a left turn into my driveway, and the added risk doing my yardwork along the front edge of my property.
If I step out in the street in front of a car while edging my lawn and get hit, that is my fault.
If a car leaves the roadway and comes onto my yard and hits me, it's his fault.
There is clearly a higher chance of that happening on my street than in a quiet subdivison - I understood that difference when I bought the property.
But I choose to live here:
Rather than in a place where one house looks just like the next......
I made my choices and accepted the risks.....I am a grown up.......
Sheldon, that's a beautiful old house you have, I'm jealous! Probably has a nice big basement perfect for an O gauge layout too. That turret looks like it'd make a perfect reading room as well.
And thanks Sam! "Silver Rail Club" has a number of posted videos on the "Classic Toy Trains" site. Just head over there, click "Reader Videos" and start having fun.
Firelock76 Sheldon, that's a beautiful old house you have, I'm jealous! Probably has a nice big basement perfect for an O gauge layout too. That turret looks like it'd make a perfect reading room as well. And thanks Sam! "Silver Rail Club" has a number of posted videos on the "Classic Toy Trains" site. Just head over there, click "Reader Videos" and start having fun.
Thank you for the kind words.
Actually the basement, while big, is not the best place for model trains, low headroom, pipes, ducts, etc.
My model trains, HO scale, are in the second floor of the detached garage that you can see the corner of on the left side ofthe picture.
That building has a heated and cooled finished 2nd floor train room 22' x 40'.
But my model building workshop is in the basement of the house.....
The house was built in 1901, we purchased it in 1995 and did major restoration which took three years. The house is located in a small rural village that was once a stop on the Ma & Pa RR. The tracks ran right behind the house about a 1/4 mile back. The 1914 station is about 10 houses from us.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.