BLS53You just proved my point. No victim card needed, I know where I'm not wanted.
Well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly welcome to it.
But I haven't seen anything that indicates that you aren't welcome here.
As has been noted - there are many fields in which the very concept of women being participants was at one time unheard of. Railroads was one. Firefighting was another. Even police work. That's all changed, of course, and for the better.
And I think you'll find that we do like to hear from outsiders - at least until they reach the point of the absurd. One of the most popular threads a while back included "stupid question" in its title... That person ended up going to work for a railroad.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
23 17 46 11
zugmann BLS53 This is one of the most elitist forums on the internet. You guy's just can't stand a contrarian opinion from someone you deem as an outsider. I don't care if you have a different opinion. That's what makes the world go 'round. But put the victim card away. Nobody is impressed (or cares).
BLS53 This is one of the most elitist forums on the internet. You guy's just can't stand a contrarian opinion from someone you deem as an outsider.
I don't care if you have a different opinion. That's what makes the world go 'round. But put the victim card away. Nobody is impressed (or cares).
You just proved my point. No victim card needed, I know where I'm not wanted.
selector Perhaps I should clarify. What I took from your syntax was that you found some of the posts to be patronizing. I didn't see it that way, even if a little boyz-clubbish as you suggest. But, in the absence of anything else, I was left wondering what could have been so offensive that it merited your characterization of it. I don't think we're at all elitist. And we're certainly not all rail fans. It's a wide range of participation here...believe me, more than one of us gets some learnin' every day we read. Like all fora, there is a bit of a hierarchy in terms of experience and knowledge, and some personalities that are abrasive. Those that abrade are also abraded...just like in all millieu. But, as is the case in all fora, communication is key. We thrive on words that flesh out our ideas, questions, observations, criticisms,...........and our objections. As I have been reminded, here and elsewhere, one should have a thick skin to appear in public. Anywhere. Even so, we also strive for courtesy, civility, and a free exchange of opinions. Leaving a comment that some people are being patronizing isn't particularly helpful unless you are prepared to stick around and explain yourself. You aren't so obliged, but every little bit helps. It's what helps us to form a community here.
Perhaps I should clarify. What I took from your syntax was that you found some of the posts to be patronizing. I didn't see it that way, even if a little boyz-clubbish as you suggest. But, in the absence of anything else, I was left wondering what could have been so offensive that it merited your characterization of it.
I don't think we're at all elitist. And we're certainly not all rail fans. It's a wide range of participation here...believe me, more than one of us gets some learnin' every day we read. Like all fora, there is a bit of a hierarchy in terms of experience and knowledge, and some personalities that are abrasive. Those that abrade are also abraded...just like in all millieu. But, as is the case in all fora, communication is key. We thrive on words that flesh out our ideas, questions, observations, criticisms,...........and our objections.
As I have been reminded, here and elsewhere, one should have a thick skin to appear in public. Anywhere. Even so, we also strive for courtesy, civility, and a free exchange of opinions. Leaving a comment that some people are being patronizing isn't particularly helpful unless you are prepared to stick around and explain yourself. You aren't so obliged, but every little bit helps. It's what helps us to form a community here.
Well, I'm here a day later. Sorry I violated protocol. This is the very kind of thing I'm talking about. You're chastising me for not sitting here all day yesterday responding to posts. And because I wasn't, I have a thin skin.
I know some of you live on this forum 24/7, but I don't. Railroads are a passing interest for me. I come here maybe a couple of days a month.
The subject matter of the thread isn't that important to me. My response was an observation. Not a social stance, political stance, railroad employment stance, or any other stance. Some of you want to take it to some other level.
I thought the subject matter was rather odd for the year 2017. I thought the anecdotes from a few posters, seemed like something from 1971. That's the total intent of my original post.
Some posters got their feathers ruffled, and I'm a drive-by poster, because I didn't respond immediately. Only then did I digress into thoughts about the closed nature of this forum. It's almost like responding to the demands of a fraternal organization, just to come on here and post occasionally. I'm on many forums, and none of them are like this one. Maybe it's because railfanning is such a narrow interest, the members here feel somewhat protective of it, and are wary of those they feel are outsiders.
BLS53This is one of the most elitist forums on the internet. You guy's just can't stand a contrarian opinion from someone you deem as an outsider.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
selector BLS53 I don't know why this is a story at this point in time, nor the patronizing anecdotal responses it has spawned. Sounds like the initiation of a dialog. Perhaps you could start off by explaining your observation about patronizing. It might help to situate the conversation, or to change the tone if you feel it worth your while. I have no skin to lose here, but it seemed a little too drive-by for my liking without some of your own skin left behind.
BLS53 I don't know why this is a story at this point in time, nor the patronizing anecdotal responses it has spawned.
I don't know why this is a story at this point in time, nor the patronizing anecdotal responses it has spawned.
Sounds like the initiation of a dialog. Perhaps you could start off by explaining your observation about patronizing. It might help to situate the conversation, or to change the tone if you feel it worth your while.
I have no skin to lose here, but it seemed a little too drive-by for my liking without some of your own skin left behind.
I'm a guy, and like most other things in my life, I'm a centrist. I'm not female, a radical feminist, or have any extremist views concerning women's rights. However, I recognize what's right and what's wrong. And in the year 2017, it just seems strange that a bunch of railfans would be discussing this.
As for patronizing, I guess it's the seemingly element of surprise expressed by a few posters that women were actually good at their jobs as train crew members.
I ride a light rail system regularly, where the operators are almost exclusively women, not just women, but Black women. And it's been that way since the system became operational in 1993. I never scrutinized them to see if they were doing a good job, anymore than I would a Caucasion male.
As for being a drive-by poster, that's Train's Forum speak for this guy doesn't have at least 1,000 posts, so he's not part of our ole boy's club.
This is one of the most elitist forums on the internet. You guy's just can't stand a contrarian opinion from someone you deem as an outsider.
Remember, it was only 50 years ago that it was considered women weren't man enough to run in the Boston Marathon - which was proven wrong when the lady faught off the Organizer that attacked and tried to remove her competition number. She completed the race and did so again this year in honor of her accomplishment 50 years ago.
Women can do anything they have a mind and a resolve to do.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy Siding I'm not sure I understand the patronizing comment.
I'm not sure I understand the patronizing comment.
I don't either..I'm guessing he/she disagrees with some comments here.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
1 -because they run out of things to discuss after awhile; 2 - because no one has said anything out of line; 3 - tight jaws are not good for your health. Might want to just lighten up a bit and enjoy....
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Ulrich Firelock76 My brother bought me a helicopter ride for my 50th bithday, and lo and behold the pilot was a young woman! Very good at what she did and very professional too, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't talk her into flying under the Manchester Bridge, the Lee Bridge, the ACL Bridge, or any other bridge in the Richmond area! She had more sense than I did, that's for certain! To keep this railroad-related I've seen some female engineers getting off Amtrak locomotives locally. My dentist is a women.
Firelock76 My brother bought me a helicopter ride for my 50th bithday, and lo and behold the pilot was a young woman! Very good at what she did and very professional too, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't talk her into flying under the Manchester Bridge, the Lee Bridge, the ACL Bridge, or any other bridge in the Richmond area! She had more sense than I did, that's for certain! To keep this railroad-related I've seen some female engineers getting off Amtrak locomotives locally.
My brother bought me a helicopter ride for my 50th bithday, and lo and behold the pilot was a young woman! Very good at what she did and very professional too, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't talk her into flying under the Manchester Bridge, the Lee Bridge, the ACL Bridge, or any other bridge in the Richmond area!
She had more sense than I did, that's for certain!
To keep this railroad-related I've seen some female engineers getting off Amtrak locomotives locally.
My dentist is a women.
Norm48327 Ulrich I think "female engineers" might more correct and appropriate than "lady engineers". It's funny how some professions identify themselves so strongly with gender. You might hear "I'm a male nurse" and not think too much of it, but you'd likely raise an eyebrow if you told someone "I'm a male locomotive engineer".. or male plumber. Ulrich, Your post sounds like the typical liberal cop out. Sure, there are those who stand out because their choice of professions doesn't comply with convention. There are male nurses, and there are women who by their choice have entered professions typically dominated by men. The reverse is also true. Gender neutrality has no place in life. You take what you are born with and live with it.
Ulrich I think "female engineers" might more correct and appropriate than "lady engineers". It's funny how some professions identify themselves so strongly with gender. You might hear "I'm a male nurse" and not think too much of it, but you'd likely raise an eyebrow if you told someone "I'm a male locomotive engineer".. or male plumber.
I think "female engineers" might more correct and appropriate than "lady engineers". It's funny how some professions identify themselves so strongly with gender. You might hear "I'm a male nurse" and not think too much of it, but you'd likely raise an eyebrow if you told someone "I'm a male locomotive engineer".. or male plumber.
Ulrich,
Your post sounds like the typical liberal cop out. Sure, there are those who stand out because their choice of professions doesn't comply with convention. There are male nurses, and there are women who by their choice have entered professions typically dominated by men. The reverse is also true. Gender neutrality has no place in life. You take what you are born with and live with it.
My guess on the 'Gender assignment' to the jobs mentioned "Male Nurse' and 'Female Engineer', or if preferred 'Female Conductor', is more for the convience of the topic being addressed here, and this narrative.
The staff members at the local VA hospital generally refer only to the individual's job title being preformed. Gender is not a part of that description in discussions about jobs. ( My Nephrologist, is a female, and highly competent.)
I would suspect that similar practices are in place on the railroads. Gender is not part of the discussion of job practices... Except, maybe when the in-nose 'necessary' is not fit to use; and the convenience of the walkway on the side of the engine comes into a discussion (?)
And Norm, as to your last statement.....You might want to reconsider that , in light of some of today'smedical realities....
MookieFinally, you only have to be a human
Don't know if I'd go that far.
Finally, you only have to be a human to try to qualify for any job and it isn't based on your "accoutrements"....
So's mine, and all the dental techs in the practice as well.
It wasn't all that many years ago that a male nurse or a female doctor were considered oddities (Dr Quinn notwithstanding). Today, nobody even notices.
That those of us "of an age" still feel the need to specify the gender of members of some professions is simply a product of our upbringing. It wasn't wrong, it simply was what it was. Times have changed.
There's a woman who often has the controls for Amtrak on the Chicago line through Utica. I don't know where she works from.
Wasn't aware what a typical liberal cop out sounds like, Norm...but ok. Haven't said anything about gender neutrality.. simply stated that the word "female" might be more suitable than "lady". As others have noted, the word "lady" confers certain attributes that may or may not be present in some women. Just as all men aren't gentlemen.. i.e. the gentlemen who blew up a building in Oklahoma a few years back.
Actually, the railroad has been pretty gender neutral for ages. An engineer is an engineer, a conductor is a conductor, TM is a TM, yardmaster a yardmaster, etc... Pay is the same no matter what dangly bits one has. All that really matters is seniority.
Even the bathrooms in the nose of the engine are gender-neutral. Somehow, we all survive that giant liberal cop out.
Norm
Ulrich.. or male plumber.
Urologist?
UlrichI think "female engineers" might more correct and appropriate than "lady engineers".
Indeed, there might be some that aren't exactly "ladies," much as some male engineers might not be "gentlemen." Of course, in these gender-role-sensitive days, I must specify that I mean they are/aren't "polite, genial..."
edblysard Durn it...let me see how to fix it... Try this http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/index.htm
Durn it...let me see how to fix it...
Try this
http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/index.htm
This story linked to, is about the new display at the Union Pacific Musuem in Council Bluffs, IA. The musuem is in the old Carnagie Library and worth a visit if you're in the area.
We currently have a couple of lady engineers and a couple of lady conductors. We've had a few more on both sides of the cab, but they left through retirement or resignation, and sadly one ( who was in my engineer's class) through death.
Jeff
Back in the mid-1980's, I remember regularly seeing female engineers on the BN suburban trains.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.