I'm interested in all aspect and eras of railroading and model the modern era. The present day is the easiest to model, and as one goes back in time the modelling becomes progressively more difficult. To model the Civil War era (for example) would be interesting, but to get it right would require a thorough knowledge of history as well as excellent scratch building skills.
ACY,
Absolutely nothing wrong with knowing the history of your chosen occupation or avocation and informing others of that. Just something I can grab off the top of my head is firefighting. That began with bucket brigades then evolved to horse drawn pumpers, and then to the sophistication of today with diesel powered pumpers and such. Same applies to most things; they improve as technology evolves.
Sure, the era of steam was something to behold for those of us old enough to have witnessed that era, or at least the beginning of the end of it. The behemoths that ruled the rails in the Forties and Fifties was, and still is worth watching and attracts even those who have no interest in railroads per se. It is the trip back into history that captures them. Hence the fascination of the general public with steam excursions. For them it is a trip into yesteryear and something they wish their children to experience that may not be available to their grandchildren due to costs.
Norm
I'd have been a railfan many years ago because the railroading of the past, especially the late steam era, is what interests me most. I retired from Amtrak service three years ago. During my Amtrak career, I was known as something of a railroad historian & was asked if it wasn't excessive to have railroading as both a vocation and an avocation. I replied that modern railroading was my job, and old time railroading was my hobby. The two were so distinct in my mind that I saw no conflict.
I still have a mild, passing interest in modern railroads, and I stop to observe a passing train. But I am far more intrigued by the days of steam and first generation diesels; cabooses; jointed rail; independent (pre Amtrak) passenger service; T&TO operations; 40 foot boxcars with roofwalks; iced reefers; and distinctive interlocking towers and other lineside structures.
So I do model railroading in HO scale, as accurately as I can, focusing on the railroad operations of the past that have interested me most. My interest in the full sized stuff is mostly historical, and focuses on historic preservation.
This started with many hours spent with my dad, running Lionel and Marx sets on the living room floor. Nowadays, Tinplate strikes me as a bit too toylike. But I can't criticize those who still like Tinplate. It is certainly a nice reminder of the fun of childhood. I still have some of those old tinplate trains packed away, and can't bear to part with them.
How many people are there who consider railroads --- real or model --- to be their hobby? That's how many railroad hobbies there are. Each of us has his/her own priorities and preferences. No two of us are exactly alike. Nor should we want to be.
Tom
I suspect the number of modellers is considerably greater than the number of railfans. Model Railroader magazine has a circulation about 1/3 again larger than Trains. Collectors are probably much smaller than both. CTT's circulation is about 1/3 of Model Railroader.
I'd guess that about 50% or better the modelers are also railfans of some stripe, but few of the collectors are either modellers or railfans except very casually.
Somebody needs to draw the Venn diagram for this.
I guess it all depends on how hard the bug bites!
A related question: How many professional railroaders are modellers or railfans?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I think that's closely related to: "I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Zugmann- Try saying that on stage in front of 300 people without blowing it!
"I yam what I yam!"
Popeye the Sailor
I don't think so.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
"I am not who you think I am; I am not who I think I am; I am who I think you think I am."
Thomas Cooley
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Backshop Does anyone else notice how few model railroaders/collectors have an interest in real railroads? I occasionally get a table at local shows to pare down my collection of books.
Does anyone else notice how few model railroaders/collectors have an interest in real railroads? I occasionally get a table at local shows to pare down my collection of books.
You seem to imply that a railfan, someone who likes to watch trains, would also want to read about them. I don't see the connection. I generally restrict my reading to the Civil War or Lincoln.
http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/DUSchmitt/media/Misc/Circles_zps9lepohbz.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
zugmann Norm48327 It's kinda strange in that the railroad he works for hired him knowing he is both a railfan and serious modeler. Not that strange. Many modellers and railfans out here at all levels. Norm48327 At work, he gets the job done in good time, and that is all his bosses care about. Exaclty. As long as you can keep your interests in check to do the job you are paid to do, the better you are. It was no secret that I was a railfan (not as much one anymore, but I do consider myself one), and my bosses were always cool with it. More than once an oddball engine would visit our little neck of the woods and I'd be checking it out after being done with my work. Bosses just drove by, shaking their heads. Then again, I had my work done safely. And when they were in their office taking the annual rules test - guess who'd they call in for help with some of the questions? Those guys are long since retired (I miss 'em), and the newer bosses I jsut can't trust as much. Still no secret I'm a railfan, but I don't make it a point to draw attention to it.
Norm48327 It's kinda strange in that the railroad he works for hired him knowing he is both a railfan and serious modeler.
Not that strange. Many modellers and railfans out here at all levels.
Norm48327 At work, he gets the job done in good time, and that is all his bosses care about.
Exaclty. As long as you can keep your interests in check to do the job you are paid to do, the better you are.
It was no secret that I was a railfan (not as much one anymore, but I do consider myself one), and my bosses were always cool with it. More than once an oddball engine would visit our little neck of the woods and I'd be checking it out after being done with my work. Bosses just drove by, shaking their heads. Then again, I had my work done safely. And when they were in their office taking the annual rules test - guess who'd they call in for help with some of the questions? Those guys are long since retired (I miss 'em), and the newer bosses I jsut can't trust as much. Still no secret I'm a railfan, but I don't make it a point to draw attention to it.
My experience has been the same. I did not play up the railfan aspect in my job interview either (not something they care about) but did mention that I volunteered at a railway museum (previous experience around operating equipment, something they do care about); don't know how much it helped but it obviously didn't hurt as I got the job.
Most guys just see the railroad as a job, and have other pursuits in their free time, but there are a significant number of modelers and/or railfans out here as well, many are both. I don't see a conflict between those two pursuits or between them and one's job, unless you are an incompetent person in general. And we have our share of those, both current and former. Some happened to be railfans/modelers too, and they lasted just as well as those who were not.
But back to the OP what an individual person is interested in is up to them, and their purchases vary accordingly. Most railfans and modelers I know are at least partially interested in both hobbies, myself included. But as a another poster noted most people have their specific interests and tend to confine their spending to those interests. People do have limited budgets. Not everyone is an enthusiastic reader either.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Going back to the original post, it's not too surprising that a lot of folk pass by with barely a glance at his books. In my case I am mostly a railfan, and it is unlikely the average show seller will have a book on Canadian railways (even at Canadian shows) that I want and don't already have in my extensive personal library. He might have a rare copy of a definitive history or picture book of, say, the RF&P but that would be of marginal interest to me at best. There is only so much budget, shelf space and reading time available. I will casually railfan anywhere I find rails but don't have the same deeper interest universally.
I am sure the model fraternity is selective in much the same way. If modeling the Santa Fe they likely have accumulated much of what they need, and that previous example of the RF&P book has little value to them either. Even the photography books such as the Morning Sun series are mostly covering unrelated subjects.
Back at the drfting thread, being a railfan and working for the railroad are very complementary, but you always have to keep the hobby aspect at arms length from the serious business of running a railroad. But that wider knowledge from being a fan can be a significant career asset, especially in the office.
John
Norm48327It's kinda strange in that the railroad he works for hired him knowing he is both a railfan and serious modeler.
Norm48327At work, he gets the job done in good time, and that is all his bosses care about.
But yeah, your hobby is however you want it. I spent my day at an anime/gaming/scifi con. Another dedicated fandom that falls in many categories.
I'm not sure I feel the need to judge how anybody else enjoys their interest in trains. I drove a mile this evening when I heard a train horn. My reward was seeing a NS stallion, something that gallops through here about once every 2-3 years. My son likes to sketch monsters and space aliens. I don't think he's got a real burning desire to see the real things in person to check the accuracy of the details.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
7j43kI don't know how rare I am, but I am a model railroader who is not a railfan*. I am very serious about my modeling, which is almost exclusively prototype based, the exception being logging equipment, because I like both logging tank locos and geared.
Perhaps not as rare as you think. The situation is different given the modeler I know is both a railroad employee in a high supervisory position and one who has a passion for modeling. His entire basement is modeled on the C&O of the 1960's (not the railroad he is employed at) and is very impressive in that everything works including the signals that drop to red when a train passes them. He has a CTC board that was reclaimed from his employer to control the action on his layout.
It's kinda strange in that the railroad he works for hired him knowing he is both a railfan and serious modeler. At work, he gets the job done in good time, and that is all his bosses care about. The employees he supervises have utmost respect for him. Most have seen his layout and are impressed not only by that but his dedication to his job and his loyalty to those he supervises.
He, and the railroad he works at shall remain unnamed just to protect his privacy.
Thanks Sam! Add if it wasn't for the model railroad hobbyists we probably would have the plethora of train shows around the country, all good for various gauges of model trains in addition to railroadiana, books, videos, apparel, you name it.
Support your local train show, you never know what you'll find.
Like I said, big tent.
Wayne
Firelock76 Hey, railfanning, rail modeling, or just playing with toy trains is a big tent. Plenty of room for all of us under it no matter what we do.
Hey, railfanning, rail modeling, or just playing with toy trains is a big tent. Plenty of room for all of us under it no matter what we do.
I would tend to agree with Wayne (Firelock76) and the Big Tent apparoach. And most likely, fall somewhere along with some of the other poster's positions; in-line with Northwest's, and Mookie's thoughts, as well. Enjoyed Modeling Railroads early on, and later railfanning, and those types of interests took over. In retirement, I still find lots of interests to enjoy; Books, Magazines, Fan Trips ( when the opportunity presents itself). And just plain watching the trains on local lines. I think the term Railfan fits.
I don't know how rare I am, but I am a model railroader who is not a railfan*. I am very serious about my modeling, which is almost exclusively prototype based, the exception being logging equipment, because I like both logging tank locos and geared.
I have a wall of books on the subjects. At least 95% are about real railroading. That would include, for example, 36 ORER's. Which, I suppose, could be filed under "model railroading", since I tend to use them more for that than strictly prototypic research.
I like watching and being around trains. Just not enough to go do it. Much. I did chase the AFT back in the '70's, but only 'cause my buddy offered to drive. Every 5 years I go up to Lyle WA and photograph "every" train through there for several days. For MODELING purposes. That may or may not be railfanning. It is pleasant, in a sun burny, bad foody, hours of boredom with seconds of activity kind of way. I enjoy it.
*To me, the word "railfan" connotes someone who likes to spend a lot of time watching or being around trains. But what do you do about someone who doesn't, but has an intellectual interest? What would they, then, be called? For example, I've always been interested in "what might have been" steam. I actually do a bit of research on the subject. And know more than most people. Most railfans, too, I'll bet. And then there's the historical and engineering interest. I've got all 5 volumes of Schrenk & Frey's NP locomotive books. And I've read them all.
Anyway, here I am. A modeler who is not a railfan. I think.
Ed
I would opine that modellers fall generally into two categories - those who are modelling a more-or-less specific prototype (ie, NYC, UP, etc), and those who are freelancing, even if they are sort of following a specific prototype.
A modeller who is not also a railfan is going to concentrate on what supports his modus operandi, or at least strikes his fancy.
The same could be true of a railfan. If he/she likes eastern coal roads, there probably won't be many Santa Fe tomes in their collection.
I would find it hard to believe that there are modellers who wouldn't do some railfanning as well. Even if they do spend most of their time counting rivets...
Backshop, if I saw your table at a train show with Morning Sun books, as new, in the $25 to $35 dollar range I'd be all over you! Of course, that depends on whether the titles interested me.
My own likes? I like real trains and O gauge trains. Can't own the real things so MTH and Lionel provide nice substitutes.
I'll tell you something interesting, check out the Model Railroader forum and you see a lot of people who also post on this forum. The Classic Toy Trains forum is interesting too, and a lot more laid-back than MR.
People like what they like. For some, the artistry of creating the layout is the important part, with the trains providing some action/animation.
The wonderful thing about the hobby is that there are virtually endless avenues, opportunites and things to explore, and ways of going about the hobby. There's enough that one never gets bored as there is so much to learn and do.
If you're having fun, you're doing it correctly.
Backshop I can see how a railfan may not be interested in models, but how can you be interested in models, and not the real stuff that it was derived from?
As with some aspects of military modeling, the creation of scenes and effects that appear realistic may be much more important than 'rivet counting' prototypical accuracy or recreating an exact historical scene or railroad detail.
Books are an expensive alternative to information and images found on the Internet. Conversely, they are not very instructive on how to produce model weathering, surface finish, making decals or dry transfers and then having them lie flat -- and, all too often, they contain mistakes. I am interested in specific aspects of late high-speed steam, and in the "bad old days" I might have to shell out $50 or more for a page and a half of poorly-screened and muddily offset-printed pictures and some possibly wishful-thinking text, that being the only part relevant to my personal interest.
A great deal of modeling -- see the signatures of many in the MR forum, which riff on "my pike - my rules') are concerned with providing verisimilitude of the experience of railroading, more a convincing version of reality than slavish recreation of prototype, even when they use favorite 'road names' or equipment types. I happen to agree with getting the details 'right' when you can, but conversely when I see a jewel-like piece of craftsmanship I may not complain that the Franklin valve drive shafts rotate the wrong way or the actuation lines for the Okadees are not done right.
I have always said I don't want to model trains or collect train anything. I just want to go and watch the real thing. I always enjoyed watching the displays of models, but don't have the interest in anything smaller than the real thing.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I like both - just don't get to any shows.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but here goes. Does anyone else notice how few model railroaders/collectors have an interest in real railroads? I occasionally get a table at local shows to pare down my collection of books. They are varied topics with a large percentage of Morning Sun books. In other words, quite popular stuff. I sell them in Like New condition for $25-35 each. I'd say that less than 10% of the customers even glance at my table. I'm not complaining, because I sell just about everything, just observing. I can see how a railfan may not be interested in models, but how can you be interested in models, and not the real stuff that it was derived from? Flame suit on.
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