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News Wire: It is not: Do you suppose they were racing the Amtrak train?

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Posted by ACY Tom on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:49 PM

The various religious groups that comprise the "Pennsylvania Deutsch" generally allow their various congregations a certain amount of autonomy. Within the Amish, Mennonite, Brethren, and related groups, you will find a pretty wide range of beliefs and practices. As I understand it, they grew out of groups of Germanic immigrants who came to this country because of their pacifism and objections to conscription. They share a belief that the greatest virtue is in hard manual labor, and mechanization is evil.

It's not possible to live in the modern world without some accommodation, and the rationales used by the various groups to accommodate are interesting at least, and often amusing and perplexing to outsiders. For those who accept automobiles, a black car is usually the best. Some will accept plain white. Bright colors are usually out of the question for almost everything. In-home electricity may be banned while it is sometimes acceptable in the barn for "work" purposes. Many consider zippers to be unnecessary mechanical devices and ban them, but they accept the use of buttons. Some insist that a belt is wrong, but suspenders are OK. There have even been those who say that suspenders with 2 straps are excessive. One strap will do nicely, and they have been called the "one-suspender Amish".

So it's pretty hard to speculate whether the nearest Amishman had a phone.

Tom 

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:26 PM

Who knew there would be romantics on a railroad forum...

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:19 AM

Make, model, and license number of the vehicle . . . Smile, Wink & Grin  

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:02 AM

I want to see the FRA/DOT accident report for this one. "Other" and "None of the Above" are in for a workout.

Fatalities and injuries will have an asterisk*?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:23 AM

jeffhergert
. . . My theory is the horse had previously heard a horn and noticed the thoroughbred emblem on a passing NS engine and instantly fell in love. . . .  

. . . Again being in the area and hearing a diesel's horn, the horse thought it's beloved was returning and took off to meet him/her. 

Probably zugmann's engine then . . . Mischief 

Anyway, Amtrak 624 is a Siemens ACS-64 electric - see: http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/lancasteronline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/13/3132bbdc-060b-11e7-9886-ff5aaf2f4e14/58c36fb625115.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800  

- PDN. 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:07 AM

There are about 3 or 4 areas of Amish in Iowa.  my observations are about the same.  Different levels of acceptance of modern items.

My theory is the horse had previously heard a horn and noticed the thoroughbred emblem on a passing NS engine and instantly fell in love.  Again being in the area and hearing a diesel's horn, the horse thought it's beloved was returning and took off to meet him/her.

Jeff

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:00 AM

Mookie

Or the horse was spooked by any number of noises or people and just simply ran...

 

Perhaps Mr. Ed hit the point where he had had enough. He decided to go over the proverbial wall, make a run for it, reach out on his own, kick off the blinders that society had put on him, be his own horse. If only..... If only he had been able to attend some Operation Lifesaver programs, his freedom wouldn't have been so short lived.Sigh

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:48 AM

Have we have overlooked a conspiracy from the "Amish Mafia".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_Mafia

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:32 AM

ricktrains4824
Different areas follow different rules when it comes to what is permitted.

Indeed.  Near my house it's all old order - oil lanterns on the buggies, along with silver/gray reflective tape.  They won't use the triangle.  If I head 40 miles south, there are headlights and taillights on the buggies...

I recall reading some years ago that some orders allow ownership of cars - but the chrome has to be covered.

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:28 AM

Or the horse was spooked by any number of noises or people and just simply ran...

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 4:47 AM

I wonder if the horse might have been accustomed to the whistles on the steam locomotives of the nearby Strasburg RR, but spooked by the unfamiliar horn blast (if any ?) from the Amtrak AEM7 ?  Whistling  Then again - why a horn if no grade crossings nearby, unless it was an attempt to warn the horse ?  

- PDN. 

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Monday, March 13, 2017 11:11 PM

Hate to point out this, but.....

Some Amish communities allow cell phones. 

Ones in my area have some that allow them, while others don't. 

Land-line phones are permitted in my area, but only in the barn/workshop areas.

Different areas follow different rules when it comes to what is permitted.

The real question is why the train didn't include horse evasion technology, so that it could have avoided the collision entirely...

Ricky W.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:51 PM

Mookie
Was this in a completely rural area?

I'd say not - about 6-7 miles from Lancaster PA, and US30 (Lincoln Highway) is pretty thickly settled, as they say in New England.  

Plug the lat and lon I posted earlier into Google and it'll take you there.

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:45 PM

Was this in a completely rural area?  

If it was more urban, it could have been a carriage for hire.  Either way, you hate to see an animal suffer that kind of fate, be it cow, horse or human...

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:26 PM

blue streak 1

If you are observant going thru Menoite areas you will see no power lines to homes.  HOWEVER  if you look closely you will see roadside  underground service to barns to operate milking macines.  At some places the primary feeders are underground and all you will see the ubigious green transformer box only at the roadside.

 

    You are correct, as far as the Menonite faithful (in S.E.Ks. are concerned) are concerned. In that area, they do use power for farming, they drive trucks,( many maintain a horse and buggy for trip into towns,their farm equipment may have a 'donkey' engine on their  horse-drawn hay bailer.  IF they have a telephone, it is placed out from their house, and seperate from their residence.

    The 'old order' Amish, live on farms with no electricity, they pump water with windmills, and in their home, may use a hand pump to draw water out of a cistern for home use.  Cook on wood stoves, and those same stoves serv to heat the residence.  And their transportation, locally, is by horse and buggy/or a wagon.   They 'hire' a local 'english' person  to provide longer distance transportation, as needed.  They do work with power tools when on a job, but the tools owner must be present when those tools are being used. Moving buildings or silos they will hire a local farmer or trucker with a large flatbed truck for the move.  The local Walmart has designated a grassey area for buggy parking, and where the horses can be grazed, while they are shopping. 

 

 


 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:24 PM

Euclid

 

 
Electroliner 1935
 
Murphy Siding
Just so you know, I don't think most of us on this thread are being 100% serious.

 

I hoped that was the case but thought that there were some who might be otherwise.

 

Yes, nothing too serious about having your horse killed by a train. 

 

I'm sorry about your horse.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:58 PM

Electroliner 1935
 
Murphy Siding
Just so you know, I don't think most of us on this thread are being 100% serious.

 

I hoped that was the case but thought that there were some who might be otherwise.

Yes, nothing too serious about having your horse killed by a train. 

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:39 PM

Murphy Siding
Just so you know, I don't think most of us on this thread are being 100% serious.

I hoped that was the case but thought that there were some who might be otherwise.

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:14 PM
They use a lot of equipment. For years we supplied shipping supplies and other items to them. Electricity was used in production but not at home. Had one that produces fence posts. They have electric saws, strapping tools, forklift, a phone and a computer. Flatbed semis show up to load up but they use horse and buggy.
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:14 PM

Deggesty

ANd, I hve seen many of that faith riding trains in the Midwest and West, some of whom were on their way to a cruise up to Alaska. They do ride trains.

One sees them regularly at the Union Station in Utica - both riding the train and riding the bus.  There's a parking lot at a town office building not too far from me that often sees Amish (old order) meeting up with the bus.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:10 PM

If you are observant going thru Menoite areas you will see no power lines to homes.  HOWEVER  if you look closely you will see roadside  underground service to barns to operate milking macines.  At some places the primary feeders are underground and all you will see the ubigious green transformer box only at the roadside.

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, March 13, 2017 12:16 PM
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 13, 2017 11:54 AM

Deggesty
ANd, I hve seen many of that faith riding trains in the Midwest and West, some of whom were on their way to a cruise up to Alaska. They do ride trains.

Was working the Agent's job on the B&O at Loogootee, IN where the National Limited's met - it was not a station stop.  Amish on the Westbound saw Loogootee as home, opened up the trap doors and got off the train, rather than continuing to their scheduled destination of Washington.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 13, 2017 11:46 AM

ANd, I hve seen many of that faith riding trains in the Midwest and West, some of whom were on their way to a cruise up to Alaska. They do ride trains.

Johnny

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, March 13, 2017 8:57 AM

Amish lifestyle is not simply intended to avoid modernity, although it generally appears that way to outsiders.  And from that viewpoint, Amish lifestyle also appears to be inconsistent.  However, what the Amish actually want to avoid are things that connect them to the outside world in ways that dilute the connection that binds their community together.  Here is a good explanation that I found: 

“For Mennonites and Amish, the issue is not about the technology itself, but about community. Community is of paramount importance, and a technology is accepted or not depending on its effect on the community. So, for example, cars are bad because they permit people to travel long distances on a regular basis, reducing the connection to the local community.

Similarly for telephones and the internet. This also means that Amish will use technology when it is necessary and not disruptive to the community. Most Mennonites will have no problem with using a bus or plane, or even renting a car (if that is possible) if they absolutely need to travel somewhere, say to visit a sick relative. Many allow the use of the internet for business purposes, but not for personal purposes.

Bicycles, which they frequently own, can be modern design and use the latest materials and technologies, since a better bike doesn't disrupt the community. I know a Mennonite family that owns a highly complex welding robot for their business but doesn't allow personal computer use.” 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 13, 2017 7:50 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr
What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  

As Balt notes, no grade crossing needed to enter the ROW.

Paul_D_North_Jr
I want to see the Amish tow truck that picked-up the wreckage and hauled it away . . .  

Probably a two-horse hitch and a long wagon, driven by a fellow standing up...

We regularly see them hauling livestock around here.

We have "old order" Amish here - they won't even put the slow moving vehicle triangles on their buggies/wagons.  It tickles me, though, that as much as they eschew modern technology, they use Tyvek house wrap and vinyl siding on their houses...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, March 13, 2017 7:15 AM

Electroliner 1935

Amish don't own nor have cell phones or home phones. Some have payphones at the road that they will use but they don't want any ties to the world from their houses. They will use fossil fueled generators for some needs but they don't want to be "connected" to a utility. They will use propane refrigerators (adsorption like an RV's)  So to speculate as to why they didn't call is showing a total lack of knowledge of them. 

 

Just so you know, I don't think most of us on this thread are being 100% serious.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, March 13, 2017 12:16 AM

Amish don't own nor have cell phones or home phones. Some have payphones at the road that they will use but they don't want any ties to the world from their houses. They will use fossil fueled generators for some needs but they don't want to be "connected" to a utility. They will use propane refrigerators (adsorption like an RV's)  So to speculate as to why they didn't call is showing a total lack of knowledge of them. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:05 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Murphy Siding

Yes, as tree68 said.

We also drive auslanders (PA Dutch/ German for out-landers or foreigners) - especially westerners - crazy by referring to roads by their names in addition to or instead of their route numbers.  Here, U.S. 30 is also Lincoln Highway East (as in east of Lancaster). 

What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  (Amtrak's Keystone Line, one of the few it owns outside of the NorthEast Corridor)  I thought the last one was eliminated like 10 years ago.

- PDN. 

Horses don't have to pay attention to roads - Natures 4 wheel driver's

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:58 PM

Murphy Siding
. . . Is it common in the east to refer to highways by the route, as in "Route 30"? In our part of the country we would call it highway 30. 

Yes, as tree68 said.

We also drive auslanders (PA Dutch/ German for out-landers or foreigners) - especially westerners - crazy by referring to roads by their names in addition to or instead of their route numbers.  Here, U.S. 30 is also Lincoln Highway East (as in east of Lancaster). 

What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  (Amtrak's Keystone Line, one of the few it owns outside of the NorthEast Corridor)  I thought the last one was eliminated like 10 years ago. 

EDIT: One of the comments to the report linked above - 

http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/amtrak-train-stopped-after-hitting-runaway-horse-and-buggy-in/article_21fdc07e-0603-11e7-9960-b31f8584d115.html 

- confirms what I thought: it happened near Meadow Road/ Lane, but there's no crossing there.  Meadow Lane underpasses Amtrak about 0.3 mile NW of the U.S. 30 bridge over Amtrak.  (Note that some of those comments are  . . .WOW !!! . . . makes us look tame !) 

Mischief I want to see the Amish tow truck that picked-up the wreckage and hauled it away . . .  

- PDN.  

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