News Wire: It is not: Do you suppose they were racing the Amtrak train?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 3:09 PM

http://fox43.com/2017/03/11/train-collides-with-horse-and-buggy-friday-night/ 

Shouldn't they have a rider on a horse way out in front of those horses and buggies that could alert them when a train is approaching? I mean, just in case the headlights, bell, crossing lights, roar of the diesel engines, and train whistle don't do the job? And don't give me the ol' "horse was wearing blinders" excuse.Stick out tongue

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 11, 2017 3:49 PM

It was a runaway horse and buggy according to the article.  The horse did not survive.  Guess the buggy should have had ECP to prevent the runaway!

         

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Posted by RME on Saturday, March 11, 2017 3:53 PM

Likely the horse took off across the ROW and the buggy capsized and jammed in some way that the horse couldn't pull it free.  No indication how long between the buggy getting 'stuck' and the arrival of the train; a good news story would have told us that, but it would have required a bit of actual research.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:50 PM

RME

Likely the horse took off across the ROW and the buggy capsized and jammed in some way that the horse couldn't pull it free.  No indication how long between the buggy getting 'stuck' and the arrival of the train; a good news story would have told us that, but it would have required a bit of actual research.

 

Awe come on. Give the writer credit for taking the time to find out what kind of animal was involved. It was a horse, of course.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 5:14 PM

Murphy Siding
 
RME

Likely the horse took off across the ROW and the buggy capsized and jammed in some way that the horse couldn't pull it free.  No indication how long between the buggy getting 'stuck' and the arrival of the train; a good news story would have told us that, but it would have required a bit of actual research.

 

 

 

Awe come on. Give the writer credit for taking the time to find out what kind of animal was involved. It was a horse, of course.

 

 

  Just curious, How does one of those Amish pick-ups get 'high centered' on a railroad track? A runaway, maybe the equine was fleeing from some psychologically abusive relationship?

    Why did not the driver or passenger, immediately, whip out their cell phone and call 911, or the RRphone number posted on the crossing?  As was previously suggested in another Thread here, recently?  So many questions.  Maybe the whole incident needs an investigation?  Yeah

Maybe, one of Mudchicken's rubber-tired bubbasOops did not do their job (signage,etc.?) Wow

Did the driver/passenger get a mandatory intoxication exam?  Whistling

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 6:28 PM

I think it was a runaway buggy. Perhaps the operator didn't properly set the hand brakes?  In this day and age I'm surprised we haven't yet seen video from somebody's cell phone showing the buggy going around the gates.

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Posted by RME on Saturday, March 11, 2017 6:36 PM

samfp1943
Maybe, one of Mudchicken's rubber-tired bubbas did not do their job (signage,etc.?)

Sam, I have now been through MUTCD three times looking for the equine-language signage.  I just can't find anything there.  Can you point me to the right section, or an Internet page that shows critical crossing information optimized for the horses to read?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 6:41 PM

It makes good horse sense that the signage would include pictures of a horse stomping his foot the prescribed number of times to get the message accross. 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:17 PM

RME
 
samfp1943
Maybe, one of Mudchicken's rubber-tired bubbas did not do their job (signage,etc.?)

 

Sam, I have now been through MUTCD three times looking for the equine-language signage.  I just can't find anything there.  Can you point me to the right section, or an Internet page that shows critical crossing information optimized for the horses to read?

 

   Whistling THAT might be the crux of the problem...Amish school is only up to the eighth grade...As for their equines...They do not have enough time for them to learn to read...They can only teach them to cypher.Mischief

Amish Pick up truck>Image result for signage showing horses and buggies

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:47 PM

I trust that is not one dead horse that will be beaten and flayed.

I wonder if the horse turned after the buggy was on the track and a wheel was somehow caught and the buggy overturned. 

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Posted by ACY Tom on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:08 PM

My head hurts. There is so little definitive information here, that all of this speculation seems like a waste of time.

*  It's not clear to me that this occurred at a legitimate RR crossing, or near one, so there's no assurance that signs saying how to contact the railroad were close enough to be useful in time. The article says "in the area of Route 30 and Railroad Avenue", and that doesn't tell us anything very enlightening. 

*  Those narrow buggy wheels could easily get hung up on the tracks, making it impossible for a horse to free it without human help. If this did occur at a legitimate grade crossing or at a track switch, the wheels could have been hung up in the flangeways or between the points.

 *  The buggy was a runaway. Are we sure there were any human beings available to read such a sign and make the call in a timely fashion?

*  It may be assuming too much to think an Amishman had a cell phone handy.

*  My first thought is that somebody should have cut the traces right away, but maybe that wasn't possible. 

Too many if's; too few hard facts. Just a very sad occurrence. 

Tom 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:42 PM

We've had some posters in the recent past who divined exactly what they think happened and how the railroads should change everything, based on less info than is available about this accident right now.Whistling

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:44 PM

ACY

*  It may be assuming too much to think an Amishman had a cell phone handy.

 

I think we're safe to assume that if one did, it would be a flip phone.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:45 PM

ACY
*  It's not clear to me that this occurred at a legitimate RR crossing, or near one, so there's no assurance that signs saying how to contact the railroad were close enough to be useful in time. The article says "in the area of Route 30 and Railroad Avenue", and that doesn't tell us anything very enlightening. 

A look at the satellite image (N 40 0' 25" W 76 6' 56") indicates there are no crossings in the area - it's all grade-separated former Pennsy not far from the Strasburg interchange.  Which would lead me to believe the horse simply spooked and ran onto the ROW.

Route 30 passes over the ROW, and Railroad Ave simply runs parallel to the ROW for a short distance.

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Posted by challenger3980 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:05 AM

Deggesty

I trust that is not one dead horse that will be beaten and flayed.

I wonder if the horse turned after the buggy was on the track and a wheel was somehow caught and the buggy overturned. 

 

 

Don't bet on it, I am SURE that once Bucky finds this thread, the Beatings and Flayings of Deceased Equinines will beginSad

Doug

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:23 AM

challenger3980
 
Deggesty

I trust that is not one dead horse that will be beaten and flayed.

I wonder if the horse turned after the buggy was on the track and a wheel was somehow caught and the buggy overturned. 

 

 

 

 

Don't bet on it, I am SURE that once Bucky finds this thread, the Beatings and Flayings of Deceased Equinines will beginSad

Doug

 

Oh, you guys seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.  It is a bit ironic.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:16 PM

tree68

 

 
ACY
*  It's not clear to me that this occurred at a legitimate RR crossing, or near one, so there's no assurance that signs saying how to contact the railroad were close enough to be useful in time. The article says "in the area of Route 30 and Railroad Avenue", and that doesn't tell us anything very enlightening. 

 

A look at the satellite image (N 40 0' 25" W 76 6' 56") indicates there are no crossings in the area - it's all grade-separated former Pennsy not far from the Strasburg interchange.  Which would lead me to believe the horse simply spooked and ran onto the ROW.

Route 30 passes over the ROW, and Railroad Ave simply runs parallel to the ROW for a short distance.

 

Where are you even seeing Railroad Avenue?


Is it common in the east to refer to highways by the route, as in "Route 30"? In our part of the country we would call it highway 30.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:54 PM

Murphy Siding
tree68
ACY

A look at the satellite image (N 40 0' 25" W 76 6' 56") indicates there are no crossings in the area - it's all grade-separated former Pennsy not far from the Strasburg interchange.  Which would lead me to believe the horse simply spooked and ran onto the ROW.

Route 30 passes over the ROW, and Railroad Ave simply runs parallel to the ROW for a short distance.

Where are you even seeing Railroad Avenue?

Is it common in the east to refer to highways by the route, as in "Route 30"? In our part of the country we would call it highway 30.

Slightly to the West of the coordinates on the South side of route 30.

         

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 6:25 PM

Murphy Siding
Is it common in the east to refer to highways by the route, as in "Route 30"? In our part of the country we would call it highway 30.

It is around me - except many of our county roads are also numbered, so one might say "State Route 68" or "County Route 68."  Calling it "Highway 68" would likely get you some funny looks.

On the county roads, however, the map programs won't always parse "county route" correctly.  Using "County Road 68" oftimes will.

Interstates are usually either "Interstate 68" or just "I68," or just "the Interstate."  The NY State Thruway is..... "The Thruway..."

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, March 12, 2017 7:24 PM

Thanks.  I see it now. That does make for a mystery of how horse and train met.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 8:16 PM

Murphy Siding

Thanks.  I see it now. That does make for a mystery of how horse and train met.

Not really.  Presuming the horse was, indeed, spooked, it could have been on US30, or around the town hall on the other side of the tracks.  Doesn't take long to cover 100 yards or so.

We don't know where they were, and if the occupants of the carriage were on board when it started (and bailed out) or were on the ground.  The Amish may have been doing business with someone in the immediate area.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:58 PM

Murphy Siding
. . . Is it common in the east to refer to highways by the route, as in "Route 30"? In our part of the country we would call it highway 30. 

Yes, as tree68 said.

We also drive auslanders (PA Dutch/ German for out-landers or foreigners) - especially westerners - crazy by referring to roads by their names in addition to or instead of their route numbers.  Here, U.S. 30 is also Lincoln Highway East (as in east of Lancaster). 

What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  (Amtrak's Keystone Line, one of the few it owns outside of the NorthEast Corridor)  I thought the last one was eliminated like 10 years ago. 

EDIT: One of the comments to the report linked above - 

http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/amtrak-train-stopped-after-hitting-runaway-horse-and-buggy-in/article_21fdc07e-0603-11e7-9960-b31f8584d115.html 

- confirms what I thought: it happened near Meadow Road/ Lane, but there's no crossing there.  Meadow Lane underpasses Amtrak about 0.3 mile NW of the U.S. 30 bridge over Amtrak.  (Note that some of those comments are  . . .WOW !!! . . . makes us look tame !) 

Mischief I want to see the Amish tow truck that picked-up the wreckage and hauled it away . . .  

- PDN.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:05 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Murphy Siding

Yes, as tree68 said.

We also drive auslanders (PA Dutch/ German for out-landers or foreigners) - especially westerners - crazy by referring to roads by their names in addition to or instead of their route numbers.  Here, U.S. 30 is also Lincoln Highway East (as in east of Lancaster). 

What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  (Amtrak's Keystone Line, one of the few it owns outside of the NorthEast Corridor)  I thought the last one was eliminated like 10 years ago.

- PDN. 

Horses don't have to pay attention to roads - Natures 4 wheel driver's

         

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, March 13, 2017 12:16 AM

Amish don't own nor have cell phones or home phones. Some have payphones at the road that they will use but they don't want any ties to the world from their houses. They will use fossil fueled generators for some needs but they don't want to be "connected" to a utility. They will use propane refrigerators (adsorption like an RV's)  So to speculate as to why they didn't call is showing a total lack of knowledge of them. 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, March 13, 2017 7:15 AM

Electroliner 1935

Amish don't own nor have cell phones or home phones. Some have payphones at the road that they will use but they don't want any ties to the world from their houses. They will use fossil fueled generators for some needs but they don't want to be "connected" to a utility. They will use propane refrigerators (adsorption like an RV's)  So to speculate as to why they didn't call is showing a total lack of knowledge of them. 

 

Just so you know, I don't think most of us on this thread are being 100% serious.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 13, 2017 7:50 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr
What puzzles me is that there aren't supposed to be any grade crossings of this high-speed line ?  

As Balt notes, no grade crossing needed to enter the ROW.

Paul_D_North_Jr
I want to see the Amish tow truck that picked-up the wreckage and hauled it away . . .  

Probably a two-horse hitch and a long wagon, driven by a fellow standing up...

We regularly see them hauling livestock around here.

We have "old order" Amish here - they won't even put the slow moving vehicle triangles on their buggies/wagons.  It tickles me, though, that as much as they eschew modern technology, they use Tyvek house wrap and vinyl siding on their houses...

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, March 13, 2017 8:57 AM

Amish lifestyle is not simply intended to avoid modernity, although it generally appears that way to outsiders.  And from that viewpoint, Amish lifestyle also appears to be inconsistent.  However, what the Amish actually want to avoid are things that connect them to the outside world in ways that dilute the connection that binds their community together.  Here is a good explanation that I found: 

“For Mennonites and Amish, the issue is not about the technology itself, but about community. Community is of paramount importance, and a technology is accepted or not depending on its effect on the community. So, for example, cars are bad because they permit people to travel long distances on a regular basis, reducing the connection to the local community.

Similarly for telephones and the internet. This also means that Amish will use technology when it is necessary and not disruptive to the community. Most Mennonites will have no problem with using a bus or plane, or even renting a car (if that is possible) if they absolutely need to travel somewhere, say to visit a sick relative. Many allow the use of the internet for business purposes, but not for personal purposes.

Bicycles, which they frequently own, can be modern design and use the latest materials and technologies, since a better bike doesn't disrupt the community. I know a Mennonite family that owns a highly complex welding robot for their business but doesn't allow personal computer use.” 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 13, 2017 11:46 AM

ANd, I hve seen many of that faith riding trains in the Midwest and West, some of whom were on their way to a cruise up to Alaska. They do ride trains.

Johnny

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 13, 2017 11:54 AM

Deggesty
ANd, I hve seen many of that faith riding trains in the Midwest and West, some of whom were on their way to a cruise up to Alaska. They do ride trains.

Was working the Agent's job on the B&O at Loogootee, IN where the National Limited's met - it was not a station stop.  Amish on the Westbound saw Loogootee as home, opened up the trap doors and got off the train, rather than continuing to their scheduled destination of Washington.

         

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