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TOF side skirts question - (and Happy New Year)

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Posted by ruderunner on Monday, January 2, 2017 4:31 PM

Ahhh those troublesome details.

So far I haven't heard any argument against triples that doesn't also apply to platoons.

Weather affects both, 4 wheelers affect both, first mile/last mile affects both etc etc etc.

And even so, assuming platooning catches on, how long till triples get platooned?

Norm, I completely forgot about Australian road trains. And while Australia is fairly flat, and traffic free, they still do get weather.

Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 2, 2017 4:42 PM

Yup, there's weather everywhere on Earth... we can all agree on that. 

 

On doubles/triples/road trains etc... haul them for awhile and have a look at your tractor from time to time. You'll notice alot more wear and tear.. I know.. who would have thought hooking three heavy trailers to that poor old thing would stress the frame and drive train THAT much. Smile, Wink & Grin 

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Posted by ruderunner on Monday, January 2, 2017 4:58 PM

Wear and tear affects all things mechanical. But wouldn't you rather have to replace one $150000 unit a year than 2 or 3 $200000 units every two years?

Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, January 2, 2017 5:21 PM

1st why is there even a Long Distance OTR industry.  We provide a Faster Service based on time and with less handling than IM loads.  My carrier hauls a lot of hazardous materials and we offer 2 day serivice anywhere in the eastern 2/3rds of the USA from our HQ.  That means 2 morning after a trailer is loaded we can be anywhere in that area of about 1400 miles away.  This industry also offers 3 day coast to coast serivce for anyone that wants it.  Meaning 3 days with a team we can cross this nation and deliver your freight anyplace in the lower 48 states.  My husband and his father used to run produce between Salinas CA and Greencastle PA in less than 48 hours total time all the time for one carrier. 

 

With IM trains your looking at a 2 day delay for both the making up and breaking up of the trains on both ends.  Meaning a good hard running solo can beath a IM train from LA to Chicago on serivce speed.  You want an example my comapny has its custom mixing plant 90 miles south of the BNSF Corwith IM yard in Chicago.  Now say we were willing to run CA for our customer he is near LA and we used ship trailers to San Bernadino for unloading.  We had to be in the Corwith IM yard 3 hours before train left to make cut off.  Now if our driver was taking the load to LA he would have been out of IL and into MO in the 5 hours that we had to wait for the train to be made up and pull out.  Now in the time the train was running in its first day.  Our driver before his 11 hour drive time ended he was into OK almost to OKC before he ran out of time.  They normally stop in Chandler for their 10 hour break.  They then can make Chambers AZ the next day.  They take their next 10 and make LA the next day.  Oh before you say it is impossible to do it my husband has made this run himself back in the late 90's back to back.  He would run St Louis to LA and back in less than a week. 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:04 PM

Ulrich

 

 
Norm48327

OK, next question:

What if one of the computers in the following rigs decides to punch out for lunch at 60 MPH on a curve in heavy traffic? Yeah, the driver is supposed to take over, right?  Chances are he's eating a sandwich. Doesn't that render the point of platooning moot? The dudes in the following trucks are getting paid whether they're driving or not. Savings?

 

 

 

 

Details that remain to be worked out.. which is why platooning isn't happening yet. Drivers in trailing vehicles will be paid a fraction of what a driver who is expected to be in full control of his/her vehicle gets. Likely drivers will take turns being the lead truck. While non leading drivers will be able to get rest or in some cases plan their next loads/get other stuff done. Yes, we trust in the technology to work just as we do now. When you turn the steering wheel in your car you're confident that the car will turn. In the same way people will come to trust the platooning technology..(or maybe not.. who knows). 

 

  To respond to Norm48327's question with a brief example of whar can happen:

 

 


 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:10 PM

Ulrich

Yup, there's weather everywhere on Earth... we can all agree on that. 

 

On doubles/triples/road trains etc... haul them for awhile and have a look at your tractor from time to time. You'll notice alot more wear and tear.. I know.. who would have thought hooking three heavy trailers to that poor old thing would stress the frame and drive train THAT much. Smile, Wink & Grin 

 

But we can build bigger and more powerful tractors. One rubber tired locomotive with a steering wheel would do the trick. Smile, Wink & Grin

Norm


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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:19 PM

The cab top aero device!  How much better is the fuel economy of tractors using it vs. those that don't use it?

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Posted by seppburgh2 on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:35 PM

Lets take it one logical step further, lesson from the PA Turnpike, Smart for 2 decides to run rocking chair between the lead and the second truck.  Of course without the use of the turn signal. Interesting what the CPUs in truck two, three, and four will do.  Interesting situation for the programmers out there.

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:49 PM

samfp1943

 

 
Ulrich

 

 
Norm48327

OK, next question:

What if one of the computers in the following rigs decides to punch out for lunch at 60 MPH on a curve in heavy traffic? Yeah, the driver is supposed to take over, right?  Chances are he's eating a sandwich. Doesn't that render the point of platooning moot? The dudes in the following trucks are getting paid whether they're driving or not. Savings?

 

 

 

 

Details that remain to be worked out.. which is why platooning isn't happening yet. Drivers in trailing vehicles will be paid a fraction of what a driver who is expected to be in full control of his/her vehicle gets. Likely drivers will take turns being the lead truck. While non leading drivers will be able to get rest or in some cases plan their next loads/get other stuff done. Yes, we trust in the technology to work just as we do now. When you turn the steering wheel in your car you're confident that the car will turn. In the same way people will come to trust the platooning technology..(or maybe not.. who knows). 

 

 

 

  To respond to Norm48327's question with a brief example of whar can happen:

 

 

 

Likely driver error, not platooning. 

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:54 PM

BaltACD

The cab top aero device!  How much better is the fuel economy of tractors using it vs. those that don't use it?

 

Hauling a box, fuel economy is noticeably better...all other factors being equal, you're looking at savings of 1% to 3%. Hauling flatbed, the roof fairing doesn't provide the same benefits as loads are often lower than the fairing and, of course, no savings are realized when the unit is driven without a load.  Regardless of fairings, one saves the most by driving slowly, 52 mph to 60 mph on the highway. 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:57 PM

Norm48327

 

 
Ulrich

Yup, there's weather everywhere on Earth... we can all agree on that. 

 

On doubles/triples/road trains etc... haul them for awhile and have a look at your tractor from time to time. You'll notice alot more wear and tear.. I know.. who would have thought hooking three heavy trailers to that poor old thing would stress the frame and drive train THAT much. Smile, Wink & Grin 

 

 

 

But we can build bigger and more powerful tractors. One rubber tired locomotive with a steering wheel would do the trick. Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Norm48327

 

 
Ulrich

Yup, there's weather everywhere on Earth... we can all agree on that. 

 

On doubles/triples/road trains etc... haul them for awhile and have a look at your tractor from time to time. You'll notice alot more wear and tear.. I know.. who would have thought hooking three heavy trailers to that poor old thing would stress the frame and drive train THAT much. Smile, Wink & Grin 

 

 

 

But we can build bigger and more powerful tractors. One rubber tired locomotive with a steering wheel would do the trick. Smile, Wink & Grin

 

Essentially that's what the Aussies do.. the trucks they use on their road trains aren't stock tractors designed for 80,000 lb gross operation. 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 2, 2017 7:00 PM

ruderunner

Wear and tear affects all things mechanical. But wouldn't you rather have to replace one $150000 unit a year than 2 or 3 $200000 units every two years?

 

 

If only the math worked out like that.. more likely you've got a twisted frame with maybe a crack or two in it and you're still making payments on it.. and resale value? Ha ha.. 

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, January 2, 2017 7:02 PM

Ulrich

 

 
samfp1943

 

 
Ulrich

 

 
Norm48327

OK, next question:

What if one of the computers in the following rigs decides to punch out for lunch at 60 MPH on a curve in heavy traffic? Yeah, the driver is supposed to take over, right?  Chances are he's eating a sandwich. Doesn't that render the point of platooning moot? The dudes in the following trucks are getting paid whether they're driving or not. Savings?

 

 

 

 

Details that remain to be worked out.. which is why platooning isn't happening yet. Drivers in trailing vehicles will be paid a fraction of what a driver who is expected to be in full control of his/her vehicle gets. Likely drivers will take turns being the lead truck. While non leading drivers will be able to get rest or in some cases plan their next loads/get other stuff done. Yes, we trust in the technology to work just as we do now. When you turn the steering wheel in your car you're confident that the car will turn. In the same way people will come to trust the platooning technology..(or maybe not.. who knows). 

 

 

 

  To respond to Norm48327's question with a brief example of whar can happen:

 

 

 

 

 

Likely driver error, not platooning. 

 

 

From the front end and rear end crumpled on the pick up looks like he rear ended someone else then got slammed into by the truck.  There was a pile-up close to that on I-80 this year near here.  Cpmstruction worker flipped the sign to stop in front of a Semi doing the 45 MPH speed limit so his Boss could get out of the construction zone.  Trouble was there were 4 more vechiles behind him that could not stop in time.  They piled into each other the car vechile 2 was sandwiched between two semis and then a tire truck and the last vechile was another semi.  3 people died all in the smaller vechiles.  The firefighters literally had to cut the peoples bodies out of the cars. 

 

What could happen in a platoon if a car plays suicide dive that is what my drivers call it can you say carnage all over the interstate.  80K per vechile does not stop on a dime.  The physics of 240K lbs hitting a car that does that will make most funeral directors I know throw up and they can handle about anything. 

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Posted by Vern Moore on Monday, January 2, 2017 10:15 PM

The issues with side skirts and trailer tails, to include damage to those devices and the loss of tare weight is another thing driving the major trucking companies in the intermodal market to switch from trailers to containers.

Containers aren't required to have tails and any side skirts would be mounted on the container chassis and not the box.  Plus the containers would not incur the tare weight penalty of the skirts and tails.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, January 3, 2017 7:56 AM

When we do get a domestic container that is to be loaded for someone here in the USA we can barely get 40K lbs into them before they weigh out.  They do weigh more close to 5K lbs more than our current setups.  Oh yeah we do have a customer that tried CR England and their vaunted Reefer Containers.  The loss of 2 pallets and then the 7K weight penalty was to much for them to absorb.  From what we are being told the only thing that is being shipped on them is Frozen potatoes. 

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Posted by Vern Moore on Friday, January 6, 2017 11:49 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

When we do get a domestic container that is to be loaded for someone here in the USA we can barely get 40K lbs into them before they weigh out.  They do weigh more close to 5K lbs more than our current setups.  Oh yeah we do have a customer that tried CR England and their vaunted Reefer Containers.  The loss of 2 pallets and then the 7K weight penalty was to much for them to absorb.  From what we are being told the only thing that is being shipped on them is Frozen potatoes. 

 

When I was driving OTR I was on a dedicated account hauling Proctor & Gamble products plant to plant and plant to distribution centers.  One of the choice runs was detergent from P&G's Lima, OH plant to the west coast.

When the contract came up for rebid in 2010 we were underbid by our company's intermodal division.  P&G had resisted switching to containers because they lost 3000 pounds of tare with a 53ft container versus a 53ft trailer.

Until the intemodal division pointed out that for the cost of one fully loaded trailer hauled from Lima to the west coast they could get 3 containers loaded 3000 pounds lighter shipped to the same reciever.  So much for for having those choice west coast runs available.

Unless CR England is really getting screwed by the railroads, they should be able to beat the price of a load being driven and see the cost of container shipments be cheaper.  I guess if they don't have a consistent level of loads going out that onesie-twosie loads might not be economical.  But if they have a steady level of loads like P&G had then the comparitive costs of trailer versus container should make intermodal the cheaper alternative.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, January 7, 2017 9:11 AM

We are not a reefer carrier.  However your still giving up close to 10% of your capacity in loading with a Reefer contanier then the loss of 2 spots inside one.  The maximum pallets one can carry is only 28 instead of 30 like a 53 ft trailer.  So your not going to get a light weight load to haul back out since you can not cube it out.  I asked my load planners to ask around where they are being delievered to be amazed who will tell you what.  The only thing they are hearing is England is using them to haul Frozen Hamburgers for Mcdonalds and French Fries back.  The rate they are getting is barely enough to cover their costs at all.  They are getting less than 1.30 a mile for all miles.  They pay their O/O's and Lease Ops more than that. 

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Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, January 7, 2017 12:36 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
We are not a reefer carrier.  However your still giving up close to 10% of your capacity in loading with a Reefer contanier then the loss of 2 spots inside one.  The maximum pallets one can carry is only 28 instead of 30 like a 53 ft trailer.  So your not going to get a light weight load to haul back out since you can not cube it out.  I asked my load planners to ask around where they are being delievered to be amazed who will tell you what.  The only thing they are hearing is England is using them to haul Frozen Hamburgers for Mcdonalds and French Fries back.  The rate they are getting is barely enough to cover their costs at all.  They are getting less than 1.30 a mile for all miles.  They pay their O/O's and Lease Ops more than that. 

First this guy says that CR England is only hauling frozen potatoes in their containers.  Now he says they are also hauling meat.  His story changes as needed.  Anyway, hauling potatoes in one direction, as he claims, and then meat back makes no sense.  I don't know what his sample size was, or how representative it was, but it makes no sense in terms of the existing freight flows.

I'm not a big fan of the current refrigerated container design.  But then, I'm also not an engineer faced with designing it.  

What the cat's owner continually ignores is the economic concept of "Compensating Differences."  While it is true that the containers have less capacity than an over the road trailer, and the rail service will ususally be a day longer than trucking, the compensating factor will be the lower rail charge to the customer.   The goal is to set the chages low enough to overcome the disadvantages of the container while achieving the maximum possible revenue for the intermodal movement.  This is what is being done.

He claims to know the rail rate.  But he doesn't.  He has no knowledge of what the UP is charging CR England.   And England is doing the truck part of the intermodal moves using company tractors and drivers.  The tractors are optimized day cabs that are light weight.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, January 7, 2017 5:20 PM

Greyhounds yes I do not work for a Reefer Carrier however we do have to deal with their customers with our own deliveries.  You would be amazed what they will tell your load planners if asked.  One of our largest customers is the Straw maker for Mc Donalds.  We have asked our customers what they have seen them haul and they have said the same thing all the time.  Why do we ask this if they are hauling something else we might want to try and get it for ourselves for a return haul if it isn't refrigarated so our drivers can keep moving.  The only answers we get are Frozen Hamburgers and French Fries.  Those containers have been a problem for all shippers they have tried them with.  Remember this about this industry we all talk to each other sometimes about what is going on when your a smaller carrier to prevent the bigger boys from running you over.  England also has a bigger issue they are losing customers faster than they can get them right now and this is coming from their own people.  Walmart threw them out of their DC's as dedicated drivers why 2 of their drivers where caught in Texas driving Drunk while pulling a Walmart trailer. 

The other reason is their quality of drivers is way below par even for a starter company.  Why is that well social media and other forms of truth are killing their recruiters when they go into Military and inner cites and say you can make mega bucks driving our trucks.  Well the new drivers google and find out how many lawsuits England has lost for stealing drivers wages and run.  They may claim they are doing fine however if you take a long look at their equipment you can see the truth things are not getting fixed they are ordering cheaper trucks like that is possible and to make it worse now for new drivers it is either sign a lease purchase deal or sit up to 6 months waiting for a trainer so you can get your training time done for your CDL.  Why do they force the Lease Purchase plan so hard on New Drivers so they can literally rob them blind take all their money while they have that driver basically as a slave for 1 year so he repays the training contract of 5 grand.  If he fails to stay they will deny you even drove for them try and take your CDL from you and then SUE you in court to recover 15K in damages.  Yeah that is their MO and how they are staying in Business right now.  We have 10 former England drivers in our company and all of them where grateful when we helped them fight England trying to deny their Employment and their lawsuits for the 15 Grand. 

As for that 1.30 a mile that is what the UP or BNSF has been Charging us to move a 44K pound Trailer from Chicago to LA or Northern CA.  We do ship IM on occasion ourselves and deal with both Class 1's ourselves.  The rate on french fires is low to begin with.  Why because the makers of them and the shippers know that if your hauling those your trying to reposition your equipment to a higher priced area.  I know several Independent O/O's in this town that are Reefer Haulers and we do deal with another smaller carrier when we are overburdened.  They do haul Frozen foods all the time and call French Fries the Garbage of the loads.  If your hauling them your hauling to cover your fuel only.  They refuse to haul them. 

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Posted by greyhounds on Monday, January 9, 2017 12:08 AM

Shadow the Cats owner
One of our largest customers is the Straw maker for Mc Donalds.  We have asked our customers what they have seen them haul and they have said the same thing all the time.  Why do we ask this if they are hauling something else we might want to try and get it for ourselves for a return haul if it isn't refrigarated so our drivers can keep moving.  The only answers we get are Frozen Hamburgers and French Fries. 

The straw provider(s) for McDonalds have nothing to do with the fries provider(s).  Or the meat providers.  I once knew the woman at McDonalds who was responsible for acquiring straws.  She would talk enthusiastically about things such as straw diameter.

So now the cat's owner attacks CR England and french fry loads.  And he falsely claims that because his employer pays $1.30/mile for rail intermodal CR England's through rate must be the same $1.30/mile.

It doesn't work that way.  An occasional user is not going to be able to negotiate the same rail charge as a volume user, such as CR England.  And, CR England's through rate to the end customer is not the same as the rail charge to CR England.  Which, by implication, the cat's owner is saying.  

The cat's owner is blowing smoke.  If you want to believe him, go ahead.  But I think he's a trucker out of Steator, IL who was tossed off this forum a while back.  He crazy for trucking.  Which is fine.  But he denigrates intermodal as part of his essence.  So, take his words with a grain of salt.

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, January 9, 2017 7:33 AM

Word to the wise Greyhounds CR England demands more from their IM shippers than we do.  All we ask is put it on a train and get it to CA in a reasonable time less than 1 week.  CR England is demanding and both my spouse and I can see only UP is the only western RR that carries their containers on their trains.  They ask that UP watch their temps for them refuel the units if needed in the summer call a service truck if needed delay the train if needed.  Extra service demands equals extra money for the railroads.  Yes my information may not be first hand on rates they are getting however I do have access to all the Nationwide rates as to what spot rates are for all types of freight.  Even if they are getting a higher rate from McDonalds fry supplier it is not going to be much more than 10% higher.  Why because that is what as a Contract carrier you limit your higher rate or your going to risk losing that load. 

 

Greyhound I do this crap day in day out for over 200 trucks I have to help find loads for close to 50 a day.  That is addition to my other duties around here.  So if your wanting to get into a rate breakdown with me go right ahead.  I only have 20 new hires today 60 loads to find and oh yeah 30 drug screens to get done in 8 hours for drivers on the road.  So if your wanting to make my day complete go right ahead.  I got lucky my boss hired someone to handle the Electronic Log Book audits so that is no longer my baby I still have the Haz Mat as one of my babies.

 

As for your comment about being an occasional Rail user.  Last year alone we had Shipped to us and returned right at 700 100 ton Covered hoppers.  We took 500 alone from the BNSF and 200 from the NS.  We are one of the Largest Loose car customers on the Chili Subdivision in IL.  So we do deal with the Railroads on a basis that makes us almost an Equal with England.  Why we get whole railcars of plastics and then custom blend them to our customers needs then ship them out for them.  It makes us money and the NS and BNSF money in shipping and Switching charges it also makes the Port RR in Houston TX some according to the waybills I get along with Conrail. 

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Posted by rluke on Monday, January 9, 2017 6:38 PM

Getting back to the original topic on skirtsGeeked-   How many trucking companies are installing skirts on their trailers becouse it makes financial sense to them and not due to compliance?

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 8:52 AM

Since CARB and the EPA have mandated a CAFE standard that the industry meets or gets FINED for not meeting it.  So the industry as a whole has been forced to accept these and we do not want them.  So to answer your question in from talking to my boss he has found out that less than 20% of carriers our size that run vans or reefers want these on their trailers.  Those that do want them are carriers that think saving .10 cents a gallon on fuel is worth running an extra 200 miles on a 800 mile trip. 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 9:53 AM

greyhounds
The cat's owner is blowing smoke.  If you want to believe him, go ahead.  But I think he's a trucker out of Steator, IL who was tossed off this forum a while back.  He crazy for trucking.  Which is fine.  But he denigrates intermodal as part of his essence.  So, take his words with a grain of salt.

Thanks. Ken.  Several of us have thought that.  The style of punction/capitalization has changed, but much of the content is the same as E.B.'s: a pronounced bias against intermodal and a tendency to offer absurd contentions on tangential topics.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:00 AM

We've found that they're a "qualified" success in terms of improving efficiency and cutting cost. So long as they're installed properly and are maintained and kept clean, they do cut the cost of fuel. But if they're not maintained or dirty then they not only provide no savings, they in fact act as a parachute by increasing drag instead of reducing it. It doesn't take much either.. a small indentation on the skirt due to debris or a scuff or maybe a little bit of dirt is all it takes to neutralize any potential savings. Like them or not, though,  CA requires them and other jurisdictions are sure to follow. So if they're looked after and installed properly they do provide some savings. 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:35 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I'm not in the mood for any more arguments on here, but every set of numbers I have ever seen gives the train 5 times the ton/mile fuel economy of a truck. Not to mention the safety and other factors sighted above - if any common sense was in play - the train wins this one - but common sense has been outlawed by.......

I tend to agree.  The exact numbers are a question, but in general, rail makes more sense.  As the weight limits have increased on truck loads, so has the damage to our highways.   Once again a case of a lobby getting its way by ignoring easy-to-externalize costs.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:04 AM

If only fuel efficency was the only factor. In reality, however, its never that simple. Time constraints come into play as well as routing.. many  shippers and receivers are no where near a siding these days. some entire jursidictions.. like PEI, NL have no tracks let alone rail service.. Reducing and eliminating branch lines may have bee shortsighted. 

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Posted by rluke on Thursday, January 12, 2017 7:45 PM

I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed.  It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes.  I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought?

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, January 13, 2017 9:05 AM

rluke

I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed.  It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes.  I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought?

 

Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators.

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, January 13, 2017 10:54 AM

schlimm

 

 
rluke

I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed.  It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes.  I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought?

 

 

 

Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators.

 

The tail is collapsable, but running into the back of a truck is not recommended and should be avoided. Deck height is roughly at eye level too.. and the deck won't give near as much as your head will in a collision. 

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