BaltACD tree68 samfp1943 I've driven under such conditions, although our "convoy" wasn't exactly a precision one. Even if the lead vehicle is doing a constant speed, if the convoy is long enough the last vehicle is either running 100 MPH (figuratively, anyhow), or stopped and taking a break. The dynamics are rather like a "Slinky." You can see this in action even in heavy regular traffic. And such convoys are hardly a new concept - there's even a country song about it... In the summer driving on I-95 one frequently has to thread their way past a National Guard or Army Reserve convoy as the trek to or from their two week training assignment at any of the number of bases along the East Coast. No fun for civilians and from the looks on their faces - no fun for the troops!
tree68 samfp1943 I've driven under such conditions, although our "convoy" wasn't exactly a precision one. Even if the lead vehicle is doing a constant speed, if the convoy is long enough the last vehicle is either running 100 MPH (figuratively, anyhow), or stopped and taking a break. The dynamics are rather like a "Slinky." You can see this in action even in heavy regular traffic. And such convoys are hardly a new concept - there's even a country song about it...
samfp1943
I've driven under such conditions, although our "convoy" wasn't exactly a precision one.
Even if the lead vehicle is doing a constant speed, if the convoy is long enough the last vehicle is either running 100 MPH (figuratively, anyhow), or stopped and taking a break. The dynamics are rather like a "Slinky."
You can see this in action even in heavy regular traffic.
And such convoys are hardly a new concept - there's even a country song about it...
In the summer driving on I-95 one frequently has to thread their way past a National Guard or Army Reserve convoy as the trek to or from their two week training assignment at any of the number of bases along the East Coast. No fun for civilians and from the looks on their faces - no fun for the troops!
No Fun for the troops, military vehicles have never been known for their creature comforts, but some of them might be Fun once they get to the training grounds
I am frequently in the Tacoma, WA area, near JBLM(Joint Base,Lewis/McChord) and often see the military convoys on I-5, I usually give them a toot toot on the air horn, and a thumbs up, as I pass them, which normally gets a Smile and a Wave back from the soldiers, it seems to brighten their day, knowing that at least some of us APPRECIATE them being there.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
My boss last year spent over 55 Million on fuel alone last year. Then out of that came our fuel taxes of close to 16 million bucks for the Federal and States. Then throw in NY HUT taxes and other taxes and fees his tax bill just for the trucks last year for highways was over 20 million dollars. Yeah yet states want more of the pie when our Profit margin last year was less than 3 percent overall.
samfp1943Closest thing to the "Platooning' of trucks today, is the Operations of Military Convoys on public highways.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Euclid Yes, I’m afraid the future belongs to platooning. Think of a truck platoon as a freight train with no limit on length. A freight train without flanges on the wheels. A freight train with distributed power on every car. A freight train that can set out and pick up on the fly without stopping.
Yes, I’m afraid the future belongs to platooning. Think of a truck platoon as a freight train with no limit on length. A freight train without flanges on the wheels. A freight train with distributed power on every car. A freight train that can set out and pick up on the fly without stopping.
Closest thing to the "Platooning' of trucks today, is the Operations of Military Convoys on public highways. Such operations require tremendous discipline by the military drivers in the convoy, to be effective and achieve the results expected.
The problems happen when civilian drivers are introduced into the 'mix'. When the convoy 'tightens' up to keep their convoy discipline, strange things happen ! Civilian drivers will dart in and out of the convoy, particularly, if the civilian driver think they will be cut off from a turn that might be blocked. Not to mention all sorts of other distractive shenannigans begin to impenge on the military drivers.
Autonomous vehicles may be the answer, but the old saying: "... that it takes a computer to really,bigtime, screw things up !..." Comes to mind.
Shadow the Cats owner I know what you mean we see that here why that happens is a truck tire has 30/32" of rubber when new and instead of using the speedometer for speed they use fuel for speed governing. When your engine is getting its ration of fuel in top gear it is cut off. Thing is you can be doing 2 MPH faster when you have new tires compared to old tires. Yeah there is that much speed loss in a set of tires on a semi between new and old. Your 1 MPH faster when they are new 1 MPH slower when worn out. The sweet spot is between 15-18/32's on the tread. Beyond that your off. Weight of loads and everything makes a difference on settings.
I know what you mean we see that here why that happens is a truck tire has 30/32" of rubber when new and instead of using the speedometer for speed they use fuel for speed governing. When your engine is getting its ration of fuel in top gear it is cut off. Thing is you can be doing 2 MPH faster when you have new tires compared to old tires. Yeah there is that much speed loss in a set of tires on a semi between new and old. Your 1 MPH faster when they are new 1 MPH slower when worn out. The sweet spot is between 15-18/32's on the tread. Beyond that your off. Weight of loads and everything makes a difference on settings.
Agree with your premis about 'new' vs. 'worn' truck tires, but to many, (and a lot of truck drivers) . Tires, and their dynamics, are a pretty arcane subject; Once past the steering axle tires, many drivers ( NOT O/O !) are not too interested, as to costs, and dynamics, only beyond their personal inconveniences when 'down' to get them replaced or 'fixed'.
Out in this area, one sees more and more of the 'Super Singles' in virtually all positions on drives, and trailers. I have been too far out of the business to know current prices or various features, but it is seemingly apparent, that individual tire costs can be balanced against the savings they will provide the trucks owners.
As to fuel, the only way to seem to come out ahead (as a truck owner) on that, is to somehow apply the economics of 'scale' on purchases of bulk fuel. Then you get a lot of different issues there. Retail fuel prices still amaze me; I am sure that 'Taxes' are a large item driving that cost(?); over and above the cost of 'getting it' to the end user.
The only way for a truck owner to seem to get ahead of that is the incremental improvements offered in 'Streamling/air flow' on tractors, and trailers. The early part of my career was when the only tractors available to operate were the C.O.E. styles.
The railroads, and airlines do it by making large purchases of bulk fuels and 'playing' in the 'Market', and their savings seem to be only in pennies per gal. Increased savings come from large, long-term, comitements to purchase large quantities.
Shadow the Cats owner The data has shown the more interactions a person has to make with traffic on the highway aka passing and merging the more likely an accident is to happen. Yet carriers insist on limiting their drivers speed to less than the speed limit and states having a split limit. Then what do you end up with a 60 MPH truck being passed by a 62 mPH truck on a 75 MPH highway with a traffic jam behind him and the guy being passed will not lift to make it easier. We have our fleet set for 70 now which is the about the east coast standard for speed. Our drivers love the fact they can get around the slower drivers in a hurry. My boss has a policy keep the drivers happy and they will do their best job. If you treat a driver like a human being instead of like a number like some places be amazed at the performence increase. Or as my hubby says treat me nice I would do what was impossible at times. Treat me like a piece of trash well your going to get the same back. I use that everyday at work on how I treat my boys and girls.
The data has shown the more interactions a person has to make with traffic on the highway aka passing and merging the more likely an accident is to happen. Yet carriers insist on limiting their drivers speed to less than the speed limit and states having a split limit. Then what do you end up with a 60 MPH truck being passed by a 62 mPH truck on a 75 MPH highway with a traffic jam behind him and the guy being passed will not lift to make it easier. We have our fleet set for 70 now which is the about the east coast standard for speed. Our drivers love the fact they can get around the slower drivers in a hurry. My boss has a policy keep the drivers happy and they will do their best job. If you treat a driver like a human being instead of like a number like some places be amazed at the performence increase. Or as my hubby says treat me nice I would do what was impossible at times. Treat me like a piece of trash well your going to get the same back. I use that everyday at work on how I treat my boys and girls.
Oh how I wish there was a 2 MPH difference between passing trucks on I-81. More like 0.002 MPH difference
Unfortunately, split(STUPID)speed limits are all too common out West.
Oregon is still mostly 65/55, with just last March on I-84, East of the Dalles, and some other select Hwys. in Central and Eastern Oregon getting new 70/65 limits, at least they narrowed the split to only 5 MPH in those areas.
Washington is still 70/60 MPH Maximum Statewide.
Idaho is now 80/70 on rural interestates.
Strangely, in Utah, where the Speed Limit is an Unsplit 80MPH for ALL Vehicles on rural Interstates, there are NOT body bags stacked like cordwood along the highways, as those opposed to higher speed limits always predict there will be.
Fortunately, when I was running to Salt Lake City on a regular basis, I mentioned to our plant manager that the limits for trucks were 70, in ID, and 80 in UT, and being goverened at 65, I was interefering with traffic, he replied there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to run the legal speed limit. He called the shop, and had my tractor turned up to 80. Unfortunately, the new limits weren't enough to allow me to run Portland, OR to Salt Lake in a day, if only Oregon and Idaho could have seen the light like UT, but oh well wouldn't matter for me any more, the company sold the plant last July, and the new outfit has me doing strictly OR/WA day runs.
Grapevine is still there on I-5 so is Techachpi on 58 Donner on 80 Cajon and Baker on 15 plus several more on the state roads all over the state. Engine brakes on modern trucks plus todays friction materials have just about eliminated runaway issues in OTR trucks. When you have one it comes down to 2 things either a failure of the brake system in a part or more than likely driver error. CA stubbornly thinks that 55 is safe only for trucks even when they get underrode by smart cars doing 70.
BaltACD And in the 21st Century real world we know that is magnum BS. A trucker is going to use every measure of momentum that nature offers.
And in the 21st Century real world we know that is magnum BS. A trucker is going to use every measure of momentum that nature offers.
True, my comment was that it was a possible reason (keep in mind that auto traffic may prevent gaining speed). Main reason was probably in regards to braking (think truck brakes in the 1950's or earlier).
Back in the 1950's, it was not uncommon for California highways to have 6 - 7% grades. An example was US-395 just south of CA-76, 600' change in elevation in about 2 miles. I-5 has a section of 6% descending into the Central Valley (Grapevine), IIRC, the limit for trucks is 40 MPH.
In the railroad world - CSX 'back in the day' had a 40 MPH speed limit on coal trains - up hill, level, down hill - it don't matter - all in the name of 'fuel conservation'. RFE on the Atlanta Div. was able to get an officially sanctioned comparison test. 50 MPH vs. 40 MPH for equally powered equally tonnaged coal trains from Atlanta to Waycross. Results of the test was that the 50 MPH train used 50 gallons less per unit (3 Dash-8's) than the 40 MPH train. Difference being that the 40 MPH train had to brake coming down grade and didn't have that momentum available to assist in climbing the next hill. The route from Atlanta is one rolling hill after another - if you can't use the momentum nature gives you, you will pay in excessive fuel use.
I can believe that, especially considering total drag on a freight train at 50 MPH would be on the order of 0.4% of train weight. Regenerative braking is another possible solution, though upping the speed limit to 50 is a lot cheaper.
tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH Multiple speed limits aren't exactly a new idea or distinctive to California. They were pretty common outside metro areas when I first got my driver's license many years ago. If memory serves, you may still find them in MI.
CSSHEGEWISCH Multiple speed limits aren't exactly a new idea or distinctive to California. They were pretty common outside metro areas when I first got my driver's license many years ago.
Multiple speed limits aren't exactly a new idea or distinctive to California. They were pretty common outside metro areas when I first got my driver's license many years ago.
If memory serves, you may still find them in MI.
erikem Shadow the Cats owner Then to really make it fun for you they have a split speed limit of 55 for trucks 70 for cars The 55 MPH rule is for trucks with three or more axles and autos/pickups with trailers and has been this way for over 50 years. The Nixon era 55 MPH speed limit was first proposed as a 50 MPH speed limit, but several trucking companies claimed their trucks were optimized for 55 and thus the speed limit was upped to 55. A possible reason for the lower limit in California is that many roads have a rolling profile, and keeping the trucks to 55 would prevent the situation where trucks would be passing cars on the downhill sections and be passed by the same cars going uphill.
Shadow the Cats owner Then to really make it fun for you they have a split speed limit of 55 for trucks 70 for cars
Then to really make it fun for you they have a split speed limit of 55 for trucks 70 for cars
The 55 MPH rule is for trucks with three or more axles and autos/pickups with trailers and has been this way for over 50 years. The Nixon era 55 MPH speed limit was first proposed as a 50 MPH speed limit, but several trucking companies claimed their trucks were optimized for 55 and thus the speed limit was upped to 55.
A possible reason for the lower limit in California is that many roads have a rolling profile, and keeping the trucks to 55 would prevent the situation where trucks would be passing cars on the downhill sections and be passed by the same cars going uphill.
But, now the trucks are passed by cars going both uphill and downhill.
I would like all the states surrounding CA to pass laws prohibiting the tail fins and side skirts on trucks and then see which state the Feds clamp down on for interfering with interstate commerce.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
erikemA possible reason for the lower limit in California is that many roads have a rolling profile, and keeping the trucks to 55 would prevent the situation where trucks would be passing cars on the downhill sections and be passed by the same cars going uphill.
I knew that California had some extra regulations but I had no idea that they were that insane. So can the highway patrol or local police pull over a truck that does not have skirts or tails?- thanks
If you want the headaches of dealing with CARB go right ahead. They also require CARB certified trucks for all ports and Drayage operations. If your pulling a container out of say Long Beach or Oakland only 2 carriers are allowed to be used per their contracts with the Ports. Then to really make it fun for you they have a split speed limit of 55 for trucks 70 for cars and oh yeah all these area devices they have mandated only work at 60 or higher per the studies. Then throw in the highest fuel prices in the nation the highest Income taxes in the nation they require all drivers to be paid hourly wages even for sleeping due to their employment regulations. If you want those headaches have fun. Those are just some of the joys of dealing with CA.
Sounds like an oportunity for rail if truckers don't want to go to California.
CARB stands for the California Air Resources Board and only apply to the State of California. They were given a waiver to the Clean Air Act in the 70's to have special powers on air quality. Anyone remember having a car with California Emissions on it. Well they took things up a notch with the OTR industry and technically are in violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution of the USA with it. They banned any truck older than 2007 and next year 2012 from going into the state of CA. They also banned any engine made before 2007 unless refitted with a DPF from coming into the state and now are requiring DPF on Reefer trailers. They are the only state in the Nation that requires here is the list to be CA compliant. In order to be considered a CARB therefore CA compliant carrier you must run Ultra low Rolling Resistance tires on all positions have DPF and DEF with EGR on your tractors. Your trailers must be equipped with Side Skirts tails auto inflation on the tires if made after 2015 and if a reefer made after 2016 equipped with a DPF filter for the reefer unit. Otherwise you and your carrier can be fined 25K per trip per day your in CA for noncompliance with CARB regulations. That is why we quit even going to CA. The costs are simply to freaking high for carriers to comply with their regulations.
At what point are the CARB regulations enforced. (At the point of manufacture? Or on the highway? Random inspections?)- thanks
The current FMCSA regualtions allow up to 4 feet of overhang before we have to run overlength permits. These trailer tails measure in at less than 4 feet and therefore are exempt from requiring overlength permits. Even so they are still a pain in the rear end for drivers as truck stops are now asking all trailers with them fold them before drivers park to save room for other drivers. The few trailers we have them on unless the driver is told otherwise they are left folded flat against the door and most have been removed already. The MPG boost just is not there for the added weight and expenese we incurred running them. So as business decision we are removing them from the trailers.
After taking another look at the "tails" on these highway trailers I wonder how they are even legal on most roads. The tail extends well beyond the rear brake lights on the trailer. Looks like a hazard to me.
samfp1943 Some states used to maintain a sort of 'Bull pen' arrangements to allow these overlong combinations to be made-up, or seperated while on the permitted roadways (Turnpikes or Thruways).
Many exits on the NYS Thruway have such yards, especially near urban areas.
schlimm rluke I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed. It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes. I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought? "Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators."
rluke I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed. It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes. I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought?
I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed. It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes. I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought?
"Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators."
I am not exactly familiar thses days with the various itterations of States and their regulations of Truck Length Laws. I would think that the various companies are very careful about where these combinations are allowed to 'run'. There are, (or were) restrictions about how far one could 'run' to get into a 'terminal' off of a 'permitted road' or highway. Some states used to maintain a sort of 'Bull pen' arrangements to allow these overlong combinations to be made-up, or seperated while on the permitted roadways (Turnpikes or Thruways).
I have noticed that the road tractors that are used to pull the ovelength combos seem to have higher horsepower rating than those that would just pull a single trailer. And they seem to be able to cope better in windy conditions, also.
schlimm rluke I took a closer look at a trailer that had a 'tail' deployed. It seems like a hazard to any following automobile that might slide into the rear of the trailer. Those tails are just about at the height of a car's winshield.-- yikes. I wonder if the regulators gave that any thought? Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators.
Given the dangers of doubles and triples, etc and the damage from increasing load limits causes to our roads, it is hardly surprising the truck lobby got its way on those "tails" with supposed regulators.
The tail is collapsable, but running into the back of a truck is not recommended and should be avoided. Deck height is roughly at eye level too.. and the deck won't give near as much as your head will in a collision.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
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