A new oil discovery in the Permian Basin may upset the apple cart.Neocon Republicans may see this as a excuse to reduce funding for Urban Transit and Passenger Rail. I dont see transit use going down in traditional old core cities of the East Coast as most people I have talked to is the reason they use the train is because of lack of cheap parking downtown. But however cheap oil may mean more suberban sprawl in newer cities like Dallas and cities that are about to tip in favor of rail like Indynapolis and Kansas City may opt out. More suberban sprawl means strip malls and cookie cutter housing developments and less green space to absorb greenhouse gases like CO2 and displacememnt of animals from there habitat. The discovery of the Permian (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/us/midland-texas-mammoth-oil-discovery/) basin oil reserve is nothing short of a ecological disaster. The oil is not just drill and pump but will take billions of tons of frak sand and frak fluides to extract. The cheap oil will lead to exessive highway building and more cars that put us on the path to a runaway greenhouse effect on this planet on top of the lifting of restrictions of coal power plants. The only way to stop this is for a our presidenrt Obama at the last minute declare the whole Permian Basin a National Park or National Wild Life Refuge. Yes I am seriuse the lives of everyone depends on this.
Indigenous peoples will demand the deportation of all illegal aliens!
Don't know where Trump and the rest of us will go.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Indigenous peoples will demand the deportation of all illegal aliens! Don't know where Trump and the rest of us will go.
Laugh today, roast and starve tomorrow.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmLaugh today, roast and starve tomorrow.
I know this is humorous -- but get real: 4/100 of a degree average rise over 40 years? Not exactly 'roasting'. And even the highest estimates by the European 'climate scientasters' are more than an order of magnitude less than typical daily climate variation, let alone 'baseline' elevation of significantly higher temperatures. (I'm willing to accept much higher maxima; that being what I was told would be the "result by around 2050" calculated as of the early '70s at then-forecast rates of increase in fossil-fuel consumption and deforestation. Then it was a given that peak temperatures in Kansas and Nebraska would be over 140F, and the 'wheat belt' would move to the Canadian shield region. That's getting well into roasting territory! But none of the current actual science points to anything like that severity of effect except through synergistic or chaotic effects that none of the Europeans comprehend.)
And why would 'starvation' come in when enhanced CO2 is well understood, physically, chemically, and historically, to contribute to enhanced plant growth?
A far better claim would be about storm damage, and having to swim with the added water going into the oceans and the 'water cycle' over land masses. Those are bad enough already, but not as popular as much of the BS that seems to be passing for academic consensus on this topic.
The Earth has vacilated between Snowball Earth and Tropical Earth, many times without humans.
My money is on forces being involved within 'space' that we know very little if anything about. While nature abhors a vacuum, it also abhors consistency. With the Earth moving through space around the Sun. The Sun moving through space around the center of the Milkey Way. The Milkey Way moving through space around the center of the Universe. We are in 'new' space every second of our existence, each segment of 'new' space is in reality unknown.
CandOforprogress2 A new oil discovery in the Permian Basin may upset the apple cart.Neocon Republicans may see this as a excuse to reduce funding for Urban Transit and Passenger Rail. I dont see transit use going down in traditional old core cities of the East Coast as most people I have talked to is the reason they use the train is because of lack of cheap parking downtown. But however cheap oil may mean more suberban sprawl in newer cities like Dallas and cities that are about to tip in favor of rail like Indynapolis and Kansas City may opt out. More suberban sprawl means strip malls and cookie cutter housing developments and less green space to absorb greenhouse gases like CO2 and displacememnt of animals from there habitat. The discovery of the Permian (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/us/midland-texas-mammoth-oil-discovery/) basin oil reserve is nothing short of a ecological disaster. The oil is not just drill and pump but will take billions of tons of frak sand and frak fluides to extract. The cheap oil will lead to exessive highway building and more cars that put us on the path to a runaway greenhouse effect on this planet on top of the lifting of restrictions of coal power plants. The only way to stop this is for a our presidenrt Obama at the last minute declare the whole Permian Basin a National Park or National Wild Life Refuge. Yes I am seriuse the lives of everyone depends on this.
23 17 46 11
We need to remember a few things:
1. Fracking technology costs more than conventional drilling. To make this worthwhile, the price per barrel needs to be higher. OPEC is meeting to make this happen.
2.Regarding urban sprawl, this has been going on since after WWII.
3. In spite of lower gas prices, Amtrak posted recently that ridership has risen to a new record. With more driving comes more traffic jams.
4. There will likely be more such discoveries due to the Trump Administration opening up more areas to exploration.
5. The freight railroads will benefit with more frac sand unit trains helping out their bottom line, as well as perhaps more CBR traffic.
"With more driving comes more traffic jams."
Carry a loaf of bread with so you can eat jam sandwiches while waiting for the traffic to begin moving.
Johnny
RME I know this is humorous -- but get real: 4/100 of a degree average rise over 40 years? Not exactly 'roasting'. And even the highest estimates by the European 'climate scientasters' are more than an order of magnitude less than typical daily climate variation, let alone 'baseline' elevation of significantly higher temperatures. (I'm willing to accept much higher maxima; that being what I was told would be the "result by around 2050" calculated as of the early '70s at then-forecast rates of increase in fossil-fuel consumption and deforestation. Then it was a given that peak temperatures in Kansas and Nebraska would be over 140F, and the 'wheat belt' would move to the Canadian shield region. That's getting well into roasting territory! But none of the current actual science points to anything like that severity of effect except through synergistic or chaotic effects that none of the Europeans comprehend.) And why would 'starvation' come in when enhanced CO2 is well understood, physically, chemically, and historically, to contribute to enhanced plant growth? A far better claim would be about storm damage, and having to swim with the added water going into the oceans and the 'water cycle' over land masses. Those are bad enough already, but not as popular as much of the BS that seems to be passing for academic consensus on this topic.
Best analysis of climate change I've heard in a long time.
Norm
RME schlimm Laugh today, roast and starve tomorrow. I know this is humorous -- but get real: 4/100 of a degree average rise over 40 years? Not exactly 'roasting'. And even the highest estimates by the European 'climate scientasters' are more than an order of magnitude less than typical daily climate variation, let alone 'baseline' elevation of significantly higher temperatures. (I'm willing to accept much higher maxima; that being what I was told would be the "result by around 2050" calculated as of the early '70s at then-forecast rates of increase in fossil-fuel consumption and deforestation. Then it was a given that peak temperatures in Kansas and Nebraska would be over 140F, and the 'wheat belt' would move to the Canadian shield region. That's getting well into roasting territory! But none of the current actual science points to anything like that severity of effect except through synergistic or chaotic effects that none of the Europeans comprehend.) And why would 'starvation' come in when enhanced CO2 is well understood, physically, chemically, and historically, to contribute to enhanced plant growth? A far better claim would be about storm damage, and having to swim with the added water going into the oceans and the 'water cycle' over land masses. Those are bad enough already, but not as popular as much of the BS that seems to be passing for academic consensus on this topic.
schlimm Laugh today, roast and starve tomorrow.
Metaphor. And try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.
The cost of fuel has defined rail ridership for ages. Gas goes up, ridership goes up. And vice versa.
It's been documented that the climate is changing. It has for eons. Sometimes it gets warmer, sometimes it gets colder.
To solely blame climate change on humans is a human conceit. That's not to say that the actions of mankind haven't had an effect - it is to say that there are myriad reasons for climate change to occur, and only a few of them can be pinned on humans...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Excerpt from NASA
https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-green/s3fs-public/atoms/files/2014_Science_Plan_PDF_Update_508_TAGGED.pdf
Understanding the causes and consequences of climate change is one of the greatest challenges of the 21st century. NASA’s advanced space missions within its Earth science research, applications, and technology program make essential contributions to national and international scientific assessments of climate change that governments, businesses, and citizens all over the world rely on in making many of their most significant investments and decisions. Through the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP), NASA works in partnership with thirteen other federal agencies to determine the relative impact of human-induced and naturally occurring climate change, addressing an important scientific challenge and providing significant societal benefit.
Excerpt from The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-earth-donald-trump-eliminate-climate-change-research
Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on “politicized science,” his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said.
NASA’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century.
This would mean the elimination of NASA’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. NASA’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017.
wanswheel Excerpt from NASA https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-green/s3fs-public/atoms/files/2014_Science_Plan_PDF_Update_508_TAGGED.pdf Understanding the causes and consequences of climate change is one of the greatest challenges of the 21st century. NASA’s advanced space missions within its Earth science research, applications, and technology program make essential contributions to national and international scientific assessments of climate change that governments, businesses, and citizens all over the world rely on in making many of their most significant investments and decisions. Through the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP), NASA works in partnership with thirteen other federal agencies to determine the relative impact of human-induced and naturally occurring climate change, addressing an important scientific challenge and providing significant societal benefit. Excerpt from The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-earth-donald-trump-eliminate-climate-change-research Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on “politicized science,” his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said. NASA’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century. This would mean the elimination of NASA’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. NASA’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017.
And this is related to rail and passenger trains, HOW?
schlimm Metaphor. And try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.
A McIntoshWe need to remember a few things: 2.Regarding urban sprawl, this has been going on since after WWII.
Urban sprawl has been going on since the Pilgrams landed at Plymouth Rock. Just ask the Native populations. It was kicked into high gear with the building of the railroads and completition of the transcontinental rail routes.
schlimmAnd try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.
Trust me when I say I have read and studied far more on the 'actual science' than you ever will, or likely will ever comprehend.
Norm48327 wanswheel U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP) And this is related to rail and passenger trains, HOW?
wanswheel U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP)
U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP)
Railroads can outlive humans by many decades. They need to plan for climate change as though it were likely to affect them directly.
http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report/sectors/transportation
Spare me the BS!
You asked me "HOW?" Please commence to refrain from asking me for anything.
Meanwhile, back at the original question....
Yes, transit use will grow even with cheap oil.
In the sprawliest of all American cities, Altanta, the trend is to move back into the city. This is being driven by millenials and empty nesters. I know several of each that have done exactly that. The recent election referendum on more money for MARTA passed in a landslide. The price of oil isn't a factor in the equation...
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
wanswheel You asked me "HOW?" Please commence to refrain from asking me for anything.
Well, 'scuse me.
For those who like urban life, mass transit will continue to be their transport of choice, oil prices having no effect either way.
For those who need to "carry" stuff to work, for those who do not work in the same place every day, for those who choose a rural lifestyle, the price of oil either direction will also not really effect them buying F250 pickups, etc.
It is about freedom and life style. Personally, as long as I can afford otherwise, I have no interest in urban living or riding a commuter train every day.
Now when the wife and I wanted to tour Washington DC, we parked the car at Grand Central and rode the Metro all aroud the city, it wasa great way to see the city - then we went home to our 1 acre and 4,000 sq ft 1901 Queen Anne in rural northeastern Maryland.
Please, go, move back to the city, we liked it here much better when there were fewer people here.
Sheldon
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/ottawa-approves-trans-mountain-pipeline-line-3/article33094301/
Trudeau: “The fact is oil sands production is going to increase in the coming years. Because we are at capacity in terms of existing pipelines, that means more oil is going to be transported by rail in the coming years if we don’t build new pipelines."
Norm48327 wanswheel ... Through the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP), NASA works in partnership with thirteen other federal agencies to determine the relative impact of human-induced and naturally occurring climate change, addressing an important scientific challenge and providing significant societal benefit. ... Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on “politicized science,” his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said. NASA’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century. This would mean the elimination of NASA’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. NASA’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017. And this is related to rail and passenger trains, HOW?
wanswheel ... Through the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP), NASA works in partnership with thirteen other federal agencies to determine the relative impact of human-induced and naturally occurring climate change, addressing an important scientific challenge and providing significant societal benefit. ... Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on “politicized science,” his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said. NASA’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century. This would mean the elimination of NASA’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. NASA’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017.
Actually, there are two things here, which in my opinion are very wrongly conflated. I'll take up the second point first.
NASA may have gotten into "Earth science" as a profit center for climate-change-related funding, but it doesn't change that NASA as an agency is still, or should still, be focused on 'aeronautics and space', for example providing a reliable orbiting data source for programs like USGCRP, not becoming associated with the actual theorization or directed 'climate' research. Trump - quite rightly and healthily from my perspective (but then, I like space exploration and think it's important when no other agency is going to be supporting it) - wants to retarget NASA on what he perceives as its core mission. I think there is nothing NASA currently does with 'research into [atmosphere-associated] temperature, ice, clouds, and other climate phenomena' that other agencies with a more appropriate remit could not take over; on the other hand, every dollar NASA spends on those things is a dollar not used on aeronautical R&D or space exploration... or associated technology development and tech transfer. (Yes, I read, and love, NASA Tech Briefs.)
(Now, if the retargeting is, in fact, a specious legalistic argument to quench climate research by retargeting NASA's research without shifting the climate aspects to other program management, there's the sort of ideological problem Mike was bringing up. But that, in all fairness, remains to be seen.)
Returning to the other point: I could think of a number of areas where railroading is relevant to USGCRP or its research and ongoing determinations (and vice versa). Furthermore, regardless of my personal opinions on global warming and the various theories that concern the idea, there is little doubt that USGCRP [url=http://www.globalchange.gov/browse/reports]is a valuable source of a great range of research reports, many of which touch on factors influenced either by economies (or diseconomies -- think massive construction necessary for true HSR here) or by operating possibilities for railborne transportation.
CandOforprogress2 A new oil discovery in the Permian Basin may upset the apple cart... The cheap oil will lead to exessive highway building and more cars ...
A new oil discovery in the Permian Basin may upset the apple cart... The cheap oil will lead to exessive highway building and more cars ...
As the article states, Horizontal drilling/fracking are super expensive, and the oil will stay in the ground until the price of oil comes back up above "cheap oil".
CandOforprogress2 The only way to stop this is for a our presidenrt Obama at the last minute declare the whole Permian Basin a National Park or National Wild Life Refuge. Yes I am seriuse the lives of everyone depends on this.
Oil in Texas is a new discovery?
Those damn neocons are at it again!
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
MidlandMike CandOforprogress2 A new oil discovery in the Permian Basin may upset the apple cart... The cheap oil will lead to exessive highway building and more cars ... As the article states, Horizontal drilling/fracking are super expensive, and the oil will stay in the ground until the price of oil comes back up above "cheap oil".
Have fun with your trains
Same story here in the Greater Toronto Area. Car ownership is fine, but time has value also. Some of my neighbours spend three hours a day driving to and from work.. Using the GO train instead would at least give them the opportunity to do get some work or reading done in that time instead.
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