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Will lower oil prices due to new findings mean that Passenger/Transit use be decreased ?

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:36 PM

I find it interesting that the OP has not responed to any of the replies........

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:01 PM

Rarely does...

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:12 PM

BaltACD

The Earth has vacilated between Snowball Earth and Tropical Earth, many times without humans.

My money is on forces being involved within 'space' that we know very little if anything about.  While nature abhors a vacuum, it also abhors consistency.  With the Earth moving through space around the Sun.  The Sun moving through space around the center of the Milkey Way.  The Milkey Way moving through space around the center of the Universe.  We are in 'new' space every second of our existence, each segment of 'new' space is in reality unknown.

Here is something you and others should look at which I think is overly humorous to this whole human induced Global Warming debate.

Do some Googles and look at what is happening to World Population levels.    Specifically focus in on the year 2050 when Global Population birthrates across the board are supposed to fall below the replacement rate.    Then see if you can find a study anywhere that projects a Global Population North of 10 Billion people.

I believe in Global Warming but I do not think it is human induced, further all our investments in limiting Global Warming presuming that it is human induced will be eclipsed by declining Human population of the Earth at some point.

The projections of global population exclude any major conventional wars or epidemics.    We are just going to see a natural population decline from 2050 onwards and there is no real indication when or at what level the population decline will stop.

Remember the Left Wing Shrill in the 1960's and 1970's that across the globe we needed to apply family planning or we would outstrip the ability of the Earth to support the human race?     Looks like it might never happen.......eehhhh Oops.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:24 PM

edblysard

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..what excessive does he mean?

Did not take long for a reaction ?  OPEC just announced a production cut.  As well some non OPEC countries are also cutting including Russia.

 

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:32 PM

schlimm
 

Metaphor.  And try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.

 

 

And if we accept the danger of adding carbon to the atmosphere affecting climate in an adverse way, even if only as a precautionary principle, how are passenger trains (Amtrak at .1 percent of total US passenger miles, rail transit, if I remember correctly at 1 percent) in the U.S. going to put a dent in transportation carbon emissions?

We had a talk at the U by an Electrical Engineer from Utah State who wants to electrify the Interstate Highway System.  Yes, the Interstate Highways.

What this would do is to allow battery-electric cars and especially battery-electric trucks to have much smaller on-board batteries because they would be continually recharged from inductive coils in the roadway.  This reduction in the required battery size is of special importance to long-haul trucks.  Electrification of the Interstate Highways in this manner would be particularly cost effective in achieving carbon reduction, especially on account of the high percentage of long-distance truck traffic on the Interstates.

This is a series proposal backed up by DOE and major corporate funding.

http://power.usu.edu/

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:36 PM

[quote user="blue streak 1"]

edblysard

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..what excessive does he mean?

Did not take long for a reaction ?  OPEC just announced a production cut.  As well some non OPEC countries are also cutting including Russia.  [/quote]

And we all know how well Saudi Arabia and Russia adhere to limits! (not when they can make more money by exceeding them).

Neither can be trusted for anything, especially when money is inolved.

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:40 PM

Excerpt from Yale News, Nov. 30

For decades scientists have speculated that rising global temperatures might alter the ability of soils to store carbon, potentially releasing huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere and triggering runaway climate change. Yet thousands of studies worldwide have produced mixed signals on whether this storage capacity will actually decrease — or even increase — as the planet warms.

It turns out scientists might have been looking in the wrong places.

A new Yale-led study in the journal Nature finds that warming will drive the loss of at least 55 trillion kilograms of carbon from the soil by mid-century, or about 17% more than the projected emissions due to human-related activities during that period. That would be roughly the equivalent of adding to the planet another industrialized country the size of the United States.

Critically, the researchers found that carbon losses will be greatest in the world’s colder places, at high latitudes, locations that had largely been missing from previous research. In those regions, massive stocks of carbon have built up over thousands of years and slow microbial activity has kept them relatively secure.

Most of the previous research had been conducted in the world’s temperate regions, where there were smaller carbon stocks. Studies that focused only on these regions would have missed the vast proportion of potential carbon losses, said lead author Thomas Crowther, who conducted his research while a postdoctoral fellow at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies and at the Netherlands Institute of Ecology.

“Carbon stores are greatest in places like the Arctic and the sub-Arctic, where the soil is cold and often frozen,” Crowther said. “In those conditions microbes are less active and so carbon has been allowed to build up over many centuries.

“But as you start to warm, the activities of those microbes increase, and that’s when the losses start to happen,” Crowther said. “The scary thing is, these cold regions are the places that are expected to warm the most under climate change.”

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:48 PM

edblysard

 

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..

 

Is that the one also known as the Katy Freeway?

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 10:11 PM

Well...I just took Amtrak from Buffalo NY to Syracuse  NYfor 30.00 I dont think I could drive for less. and I got a nap. This is about behavoir modfication or social engineering. At what point do we make people move in closer to downtown and walk/bike/take the bus or train. Cheaper Oil makes that harder. Europe with its socialist model saw driving as a luxury to be taxed and Americans saw driving and the freedom of travel as there birthright.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 10:41 PM

Paul Milenkovic

 

 
schlimm
 

Metaphor.  And try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.

 

 

 

 

And if we accept the danger of adding carbon to the atmosphere affecting climate in an adverse way, even if only as a precautionary principle, how are passenger trains (Amtrak at .1 percent of total US passenger miles, rail transit, if I remember correctly at 1 percent) in the U.S. going to put a dent in transportation carbon emissions?

We had a talk at the U by an Electrical Engineer from Utah State who wants to electrify the Interstate Highway System.  Yes, the Interstate Highways.

What this would do is to allow battery-electric cars and especially battery-electric trucks to have much smaller on-board batteries because they would be continually recharged from inductive coils in the roadway.  This reduction in the required battery size is of special importance to long-haul trucks.  Electrification of the Interstate Highways in this manner would be particularly cost effective in achieving carbon reduction, especially on account of the high percentage of long-distance truck traffic on the Interstates.

This is a series proposal backed up by DOE and major corporate funding.

http://power.usu.edu/

 

It would be much cheaper, and likely more effective to simply create the necessary incentives to get most/all long distance truck traffic on to intermodal rail, using trucks only for local/regional delivery.

The other benifit of this would be dramatic safety improvements on the highways since most of the people in the little cars have no idea how to drive among the big trucks (side bar - trucks are in a disproportionally high number of crashes, but truck drivers are seldom found at fault). And just like "The Pushcart War", there seems to be no limit to the trucks getting larger, heavier and harder to maneuver.

They should have deregulated rates/territories for trains and trucks in 1953, limited the truck trailers to 35' or 40', kept them at 50,000 lbs, and the railroads and the trucking companies would have put all the long distance traffic on flat cars six decades ago - like they tried to then.......

The train is more ton/mile efficient by what factor? 6x?, 10x? Look at all that oil saved.......

Get the trucks off the roads, then maybe the people in the cars that you all think should ride trains would not be as big of a deal........

There are no trains that will take me and my construction tools to a job side - only my F250 can do that........

Rather than sitting in an office and manipulating wealth, I actually create it by building stuff........

Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

Suburban sprawl - I could stop suburban sprawl with a simple tax law change. Rather than taxing property based on market value, tax it on a flat rate regionally by the acre of land and the sq footage of buildings. So the one acre lot with the 4000 sq ft house would be taxed the same anywhere in the region, city or suburb.

No more incentive to run away from high urban taxes for low suburban taxes, less incentive for "demolition by neglect" in the cities if taxes are not lowered by poor maintenance, more incentive to maintain and revitalize or loose it to a tax sale to someone who will reinvest.

Why should slum lords only pay taxes on a $50,000 value while collecting high rents, while hard working people in the suburbs pay taxes on a $250,000 value for the same size property? Then you could give low income homeowners and retired people a homestead credit.........

You want to stop urban decay?, create jobs?, stop crime?, rebuild the cities?, get people to stop commuting long distances?, read Adam Smith's book, get the government out of the way and make the tax system fair - the ship will right itself.

Rant over,

Still happy to live in "rural" America.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 10:52 PM

BaltACD

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..what excessive does he mean?

Guess that beats I-75 north of Atlanta only 24 lanes

 

And we all know how well Saudi Arabia and Russia adhere to limits! (not when they can make more money by exceeding them).

Neither can be trusted for anything, especially when money is inolved.

 

 
Balt quite correct.  Also might be Saudi  in a snit over the law suit law passed by congress,
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Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 11:53 PM

MidlandMike
 
edblysard

 

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..

 

 

 

Is that the one also known as the Katy Freeway?

 

yup

 

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 11:58 PM

Wanswheel et all- High CO2 levels in the atmosphere react chemically with peridotite, the original rock composed of the earths crust, and forms limestone, CaCO3. It is the earths self regulating mechanism but takes time. It is why there are huge thick limestone deposits all over the earth. There is now a process where we can duplicate this capture converting CO2 to CaCO3 limestone, which entombs and changes  the CO2 into solid rock, in vast quantities, in 3 years!  You can find scientific articles on this, the latest reporting one is from the National Post but you have to pay to get that one. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:14 AM

2008 article, "In situ carbonation of peridotite for CO2 storage"

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/45/17295.full.pdf

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 1, 2016 7:39 AM

edblysard
MidlandMike
edblysard

 

IH10 in Houston is 26 lanes wide..

Is that the one also known as the Katy Freeway?

yup

With 26 lanes, that is probably more tracks than the Katy had in their yard in the area.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:16 AM

Wanswheel- Thanks for that...of course few teach this natural process and geological process and the man made capture process is always 'buried" somewhere...when science does not fit the narrative it gets swept off the table quite deliberately. It is a very promising technology that works. 

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:34 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

"Paranoia runs deep; into your life it will creep."  Meanwhile you worship at the altar of what you claim Adam Smith wrote.  Obviously you've never read Wealth of Nations or anything else he wrote.

A nation on the downslope is one that demonizes or devalues scientists and their research.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:16 AM

Well the Mo-Pac freeway in Austin gets pretty complicated in areas but never 26 lanes that is pretty wide.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:49 AM

schlimm

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

 

"Paranoia runs deep; into your life it will creep."  Meanwhile you worship at the altar of what you claim Adam Smith wrote.  Obviously you've never read Wealth of Nations or anything else he wrote.

 

And therein lies the problem with these kinds of topics on these sound bite forums. My post was already too long, and I failed to cover all my points effectively, allowing you to make assumptions about facts not in evidence.

I full well know that what Adam Smith had to say was far more complex than the topics I covered, fact remains what he talked about is not where we are today or where we are headed.

On that note I will end my comments.............

Sheldon

    

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:54 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
schlimm

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

 

"Paranoia runs deep; into your life it will creep."  Meanwhile you worship at the altar of what you claim Adam Smith wrote.  Obviously you've never read Wealth of Nations or anything else he wrote.

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem with these kinds of topics on these sound bite forums. My post was already too long, and I failed to cover all my points effectively, allowing you to make assumptions about facts not in evidence.

I full well know that what Adam Smith had to say was far more complex than the topics I covered, fact remains what he talked about is not where we are today or where we are headed.

On that note I will end my comments.............

Sheldon

 

Your conspiracy theories are self-evident.  Q.E.D.

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Posted by selector on Thursday, December 1, 2016 10:08 AM

Well, this if fun!

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 1, 2016 10:17 AM

Dinner

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Thursday, December 1, 2016 11:34 AM

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-15/pratt-s-purepower-gtf-jet-engine-innovation-took-almost-30-years

What Pratt and Whitney engineer Michael McCune did was invent a practical form of the quill drive from a GG-1 to be light enough and small enough to fit in a jet engine.  This innovation will probably save fuel and reduce carbon emissions by more than anything that will be done with passenger rail in the US in our lifetimes.

 

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Thursday, December 1, 2016 11:46 AM

schlimm
 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
schlimm

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

 

"Paranoia runs deep; into your life it will creep."  Meanwhile you worship at the altar of what you claim Adam Smith wrote.  Obviously you've never read Wealth of Nations or anything else he wrote.

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem with these kinds of topics on these sound bite forums. My post was already too long, and I failed to cover all my points effectively, allowing you to make assumptions about facts not in evidence.

I full well know that what Adam Smith had to say was far more complex than the topics I covered, fact remains what he talked about is not where we are today or where we are headed.

On that note I will end my comments.............

Sheldon

 

 

 

Your conspiracy theories are self-evident.  Q.E.D.

 

The dude wants to do two things.  One, place greater emphasis on getting the heavy long-haul truck traffic diverted to intermodal.  Is this something you disagree with? 

The other is that he is advocating for the "tax land not property improvement" ideas of Henry George.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George

Among his intellectual legacy is advocacy for:

  • to dramatically reduce the size of the military,
  • to replace contract patronage with the direct employment of government workers, with civil-service protections,
  • to build and maintain free mass transportation and libraries,[62]
  • to extend suffrage to women,[63] and even to have one house of Congress entirely male and the other entirely female,
  • to implement campaign finance reform and political spending restrictions.

I suppose you would label all of that "self-evident conspiracy theories"?  Before criticizing people for not being well-read, a person could freshen up their own reading.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by Victrola1 on Thursday, December 1, 2016 11:46 AM

SACRAMENTO (AP) — California’s Legislature has approved regulations on cow flatulence and manure – both blamed for releasing greenhouse gases. 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/09/01/cow-fart-regulations-approved-by-californias-legislature/

So much for the ox cart option. 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:55 PM

selector

Well, this if fun!

 

In a weird sort of way.Mischief

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by RME on Thursday, December 1, 2016 2:20 PM

Paul Milenkovic
What Pratt and Whitney engineer Michael McCune did was invent a practical form of the quill drive from a GG-1 to be light enough and small enough to fit in a jet engine.

I assume you mean the ability of the GG1 quill arrangement to absorb wheel shock and movement while maintaining gear alignment ... but the gears in that arrangement are all encased in rigid alignment, so much of the value of the PurePower arrangement is really novel.  There are other significant problems that contributed to the "30 year development time".  A quick perusal of the discussion section of the patent is quite instructive.

Note that, while there's an extensive literature on superfinishing lightweight gears to take the required power loads, there's comparatively little on structures that keep the gears in proper mesh under loads when the engine case itself deforms, or that restore the gears to correct geometry after transient, possibly severe, distortion. 

Might bear (no pun intended, but it's pretty funny) comparison with the arrangement for the multiple-speed prop drive on the Tu-95 (which I think had comparable inertia loading but was not internal to the turboshaft engine).

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, December 1, 2016 3:08 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Well I have no problem with Rural America....Its the cookie cutter pink houses and the souless strip malls of souless suberban America that I cant stand. Its gets to the point of everywhere is looking like everywhere else. Why Travel?

 

 
Paul Milenkovic

 

 
schlimm
 

Metaphor.  And try reading some actual science instead of sounding like Reagan-lite.

 

 

 

 

And if we accept the danger of adding carbon to the atmosphere affecting climate in an adverse way, even if only as a precautionary principle, how are passenger trains (Amtrak at .1 percent of total US passenger miles, rail transit, if I remember correctly at 1 percent) in the U.S. going to put a dent in transportation carbon emissions?

We had a talk at the U by an Electrical Engineer from Utah State who wants to electrify the Interstate Highway System.  Yes, the Interstate Highways.

What this would do is to allow battery-electric cars and especially battery-electric trucks to have much smaller on-board batteries because they would be continually recharged from inductive coils in the roadway.  This reduction in the required battery size is of special importance to long-haul trucks.  Electrification of the Interstate Highways in this manner would be particularly cost effective in achieving carbon reduction, especially on account of the high percentage of long-distance truck traffic on the Interstates.

This is a series proposal backed up by DOE and major corporate funding.

http://power.usu.edu/

 

 

 

It would be much cheaper, and likely more effective to simply create the necessary incentives to get most/all long distance truck traffic on to intermodal rail, using trucks only for local/regional delivery.

The other benifit of this would be dramatic safety improvements on the highways since most of the people in the little cars have no idea how to drive among the big trucks (side bar - trucks are in a disproportionally high number of crashes, but truck drivers are seldom found at fault). And just like "The Pushcart War", there seems to be no limit to the trucks getting larger, heavier and harder to maneuver.

They should have deregulated rates/territories for trains and trucks in 1953, limited the truck trailers to 35' or 40', kept them at 50,000 lbs, and the railroads and the trucking companies would have put all the long distance traffic on flat cars six decades ago - like they tried to then.......

The train is more ton/mile efficient by what factor? 6x?, 10x? Look at all that oil saved.......

Get the trucks off the roads, then maybe the people in the cars that you all think should ride trains would not be as big of a deal........

There are no trains that will take me and my construction tools to a job side - only my F250 can do that........

Rather than sitting in an office and manipulating wealth, I actually create it by building stuff........

Yes the climate is changing, it has changed many times before, but there is no hard proof we are the primary cause.....and even less proof that we can effectively change its course.....it is simply the "new religion" of the socialists so they can control us.........by telling us how to live and stealing our wealth to pay for "saving the planet" and to prevent us from living as we choose.

Suburban sprawl - I could stop suburban sprawl with a simple tax law change. Rather than taxing property based on market value, tax it on a flat rate regionally by the acre of land and the sq footage of buildings. So the one acre lot with the 4000 sq ft house would be taxed the same anywhere in the region, city or suburb.

No more incentive to run away from high urban taxes for low suburban taxes, less incentive for "demolition by neglect" in the cities if taxes are not lowered by poor maintenance, more incentive to maintain and revitalize or loose it to a tax sale to someone who will reinvest.

Why should slum lords only pay taxes on a $50,000 value while collecting high rents, while hard working people in the suburbs pay taxes on a $250,000 value for the same size property? Then you could give low income homeowners and retired people a homestead credit.........

You want to stop urban decay?, create jobs?, stop crime?, rebuild the cities?, get people to stop commuting long distances?, read Adam Smith's book, get the government out of the way and make the tax system fair - the ship will right itself.

Rant over,

Still happy to live in "rural" America.......

Sheldon

 

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, December 1, 2016 3:10 PM

Ulrich

Same story here in the Greater Toronto Area. Car ownership is fine, but time has value also. Some of my neighbours spend three hours a day driving to and from work.. Using the GO train instead would at least give them the opportunity to do get some work or reading done in that time instead. 

 

Would love to take GO train from Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY to Toronto. With the new Niagara Falls NY Train Station it might be sooner.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 1, 2016 4:08 PM

Oil & fuel prices have very little if any relations to the reality of the costs of production and distribution.

OPEC announced yesterday they have agreed to limit production January 1, 2017.  Today my local gas price jumped from $2.13 to $2.25.  Not one ounce of oil that is affected by the production limits is in the world distribution pipeline.  What we end up paying is purest of a speculation market.  Charge what you think the hype machine will give you cover to hide behind.

We should know all about hiding behind hype and keeping reality buried.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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