Ulrich...do they even make those anymore?
Possibly - but it'll cost you extra...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
This is where ride sharing services may prove invaluable. With increasing interconnectivity we'll be able to "see" which of our neighbours is heading into town and can hookup. Doesn't even need to involve a financial transaction.
About self driving.. it's funny that the more simple things get the more complex they get as well. We recently replaced our family van with a new one. The old 2003 van had ONE thin owner's manual. This new thing has two thick manuals. It has all kinds of gizmos that supposedly make driving easier and safer.. I guess we'll see. Personally, if it weren't for the wife, I'd get a basic car with a manual gearbox. Fun to drive.. easy to fix.. do they even make those anymore?
The programs that run these things are still in there Beta Stage. We the people are there Guinea pigs. It has been found that Telsa brakes can be remote operated by hackers.
zugmann dakotafred The projected new car turns us into passengers once more. If that's what you want, take a cab, bus or train. Not convenient or accessible to a lot of people. That's the problem - we built a society based on the autmobile. So what happens when that person can't drive anymore? You force them into an urban area where they don't want to live? Seems kind of anti-American. So someone is creating a product based on a demand. Seems pretty basic. I like driving my trucks, too, but I don't think the technology is going to stop.
dakotafred The projected new car turns us into passengers once more. If that's what you want, take a cab, bus or train.
Not convenient or accessible to a lot of people. That's the problem - we built a society based on the autmobile. So what happens when that person can't drive anymore? You force them into an urban area where they don't want to live? Seems kind of anti-American. So someone is creating a product based on a demand. Seems pretty basic.
I like driving my trucks, too, but I don't think the technology is going to stop.
Articles I've read seem to think self-driving cars will mostly be owned by companies and hired on a per trip basis. In effect a taxi company with no drivers. People in rural areas will probably be driving their own vehicles or deal with the incovenience of publicly (local government agency) provided buses for a long time. Eventually maybe the buses will be driverless. Not really any better or worse from the way things are now out here in the sticks.
Jeff
PS Incovenience is meant in that one can't just get in their own car and go somewhere on a moment's notice. The service these local agencies provide, payment depending on income, is a God-Send to rural people who don't have access to privately operated transit options. My wife used our local service a few years ago when she couldn't drive for a while after knee surgery.
[quote user="schlimm"]
dehusman ndbprr Once it is perfected it will be a tremendous asset to us older people. Many older people drive far beyond when they should out of necessity. It could allow seniors to stay in their homes for a decade or more with a self driving car for trips to the supermarket or church services And people with disabilities. My son has a part time job and a disability. He cannot drive. A driverless car would give him independence from having to rely on us for transportation. If he wanted to go the movies, he could go to the movies, if he wanted to go to the store he could go to the store, if he wanted to go to church he could go to church.
ndbprr Once it is perfected it will be a tremendous asset to us older people. Many older people drive far beyond when they should out of necessity. It could allow seniors to stay in their homes for a decade or more with a self driving car for trips to the supermarket or church services
And people with disabilities. My son has a part time job and a disability. He cannot drive. A driverless car would give him independence from having to rely on us for transportation. If he wanted to go the movies, he could go to the movies, if he wanted to go to the store he could go to the store, if he wanted to go to church he could go to church.
All of the above. And as the technology improves, it could improve highway safety better for most folks. Also, it could make the commute less stressful.
Of course we might still have the would-be Dale Earnhardts driving their oversized pickup trucks like it was a slalom course.
[/quote]
In the interest of fairness, I do hope that there will be self-driving motorcycles that will wiz in and out of lanes at a high rate of speed. I don't know that they would necessarily be carrying Uber type passengers or riders at all. Perhaps just a flaming skeleton that looks like Nicholas Cage would be sufficient to keep the excitement level up to what I’m used to on our city streets.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I have never met anyone who has or works with computers that has never had a problem with said device. (It seems anymore that most mechanical problems on locomotives are computer related.) Yet most people are so quick to let computers do everything for them.
The maintenance on driverless vehicles, especially if the progress like some hope to having no occupant input (no steering wheel) is going to have to be perfect. (And expensive.) Some systems aren't going to be able to fail and then fixed later. They will have to be maintained so they don't fail in the first place. I have my doubts in that respect.
My reservations aren't about the concept of autonomous vehicles; only with the disturbing fact that some new technologies seem to present new possibilities for further erosion of personal autonomy and privacy; remember that Orwell's 1984 was based largely on the unrealistic (at his time) premise of two-way television. And unfortunately, technology has likewise moved us closer to that scenario; compromise of individual liberties is sometimes "sold" to the less-self-reliant in the form of appeals to security and convenience.
I don't want this thread to devolve into an ideological flame-fest; but the development of some forms of centralized control is often about power -- consider the implications of dispatching authority on several major rail systems being consolidated in a single location.
"Remember, power tends to corrupt -- and absolute power corrupts absolutely." (John Dahlberg, Lord Acton)
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
ndbprrOnce it is perfected it will be a tremendous asset to us older people. Many older people drive far beyond when they should out of necessity. It could allow seniors to stay in their homes for a decade or more with a self driving car for trips to the supermarket or church services
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Eddie Sand And allow me to add my voice to the previous three. The responsible private citizen has access to four basic tools by which (s)he can defend him/herself aginst intrusions from overcentralized tyranny. The first three -- the telephone, the personal computer, and the private vehicle -- have all come under closer scrutiny from Big Brother/Sister? in recent years. And is anyone else familiar with the way telephone calls had to be made (and eavesdropped upon) from "public" exchanges in the pre-glasnost Soviet Union? The fourth tool of self-defense is, obviously, a firearm in private hands. And I can assure everyone here that those who think they know what's best for all of us will save their harshest tactics for the seizure and control of that last-ditch safeguard; like everyone else, I hope and pray it won't come to that, but (s)he who expects the worst isn't always disappointed.
And allow me to add my voice to the previous three. The responsible private citizen has access to four basic tools by which (s)he can defend him/herself aginst intrusions from overcentralized tyranny. The first three -- the telephone, the personal computer, and the private vehicle -- have all come under closer scrutiny from Big Brother/Sister? in recent years. And is anyone else familiar with the way telephone calls had to be made (and eavesdropped upon) from "public" exchanges in the pre-glasnost Soviet Union?
The fourth tool of self-defense is, obviously, a firearm in private hands. And I can assure everyone here that those who think they know what's best for all of us will save their harshest tactics for the seizure and control of that last-ditch safeguard; like everyone else, I hope and pray it won't come to that, but (s)he who expects the worst isn't always disappointed.
Wow! Been drinking paranoia-aide?
dakotafredThe projected new car turns us into passengers once more. If that's what you want, take a cab, bus or train.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Thank you. This is often overlooked when talking about self-driving cars.
We'll see how the Uber self-driving Fusions do in the snow in Pittsburgh this winter. I'm very curious.
It's one thing for people that grew up in the 60s when gas was cheap and cars were cool. Today? There's little fun in everyday, normal driving. There's times I wish I could jump in my truck after a long day at work and tell the damned thing to drive me home.
PS> Maybe the autobot cars could actually STAY in their lane going around curves. Because most people seem incapable of that anymore. If I had a dollar every time I almost went head-on with some moron that can't be bothered to stay on their side of the yellow...
NorthWest and Euclid are on the right track. We already have self-driving cars ... cars driven by OURSELVES. That's what 'automobile' means. Not by horses, not by computers, but by free-born Americans.
I think the car has helped shape American character more than anything since Lexington and Concord ... more even than railroads and the passenger train. Once Americans could go where they wanted, when they wanted, without needing to consult a timetable or hitch up a horse ... the sky was the limit!
The projected new car turns us into passengers once more. If that's what you want, take a cab, bus or train. I'd rather match wits with even a stupid or distracted driver than with a computer chip reacting to an abstract rather than real-life situation.
PUBLIC MOTORS for the MOTORING PUBLIC
A self-driving car is the very last thing I would want. What is striking about the self-driving car movement is the degree to which it is overpromised by all the players including the potential users, the manufacturers, and the government.
This is being sold like utopianism. Self-driving cars will eliminate highway deaths, and their owners will ride in perfect leisure. The only problem is that these self-driving cars will require a lot of control. And that control will come from vast controlling systems and bureaucracies outside of the car, and like everything else, it will be outside of the control of the people in the car.
The roads and highways are public sector, and current driven vehicles are private sector. With self-driving cars will come a giant control and regulatory infrastructure that is not onboard the vehicle. I suspect that infrastructure will be government-run, public sector. The self-driving car itself will probably be public sector infrastructure that rented or leased to users on an on demand basis. Anything as complex and interconnected as a self-driving car will have to be standardized to fit into that interconnectedness.
People will miss the good old days when they could hop into their own happy little personal car and go anywhere, anytime, with no strings attached. Self-driving cars will be more like riding the bus, although a smaller bus.
And because of the safety pretext, self-driving cars will become as mandatory as seat belts. People with conventional, driven cars will not have to worry about the risk of sharing the road with self-driving cars because, as a matter of public safety, conventional, driven cars will not be allowed.
selectorI expect people-moving conveyances in built-up areas, urban areas, to be fully automated within a decade, maybe all the way out to two. They'll prove to be so utile and safe that personal automobiles will be banned...no licenses will be issued to humans. We screw up too much. Also, insurance will be so costly that only the wealthiest will be ablel to afford to drive their own vehicles in traffic...if legally allowed at all.
I have a different view on this. I, and a bunch people that I know, enjoy driving, and the focus that it requires as a form of relaxation. (Several private pilots I know state this as part of the reason they love to fly. You think about other things and...) I think it is more likely that a manual mode will persist, but with computer protections against the bad choices we humans make.
No mass transit in my area and I'm NOT pushing my groceries five miles home in the winter.
Norm
Forget the self driving car.. keep your health by walking and biking whenever possible. I'd rather that than being ferried about by a robot car and being 200 lbs overweight.
Far out! .... und Seig Hiel?
This sort of thing -- the oversimplification, the unrealistically short time horizons, and especially, the appeal to the desire for "escape from freedom" which seems to be an epidemic among over-sheltered youngsters today, is the biggest reason why I fear for the future of what we have come to call the Enlightenment, and the Western tradition of democracy, pluralism, and freedom of expression.
It's one thing for a car /truck to steer itself down the four lane on its own... but I would really like to see how they perform on skinny two lane roads in the wintertime. Also, I'd like to see it chain down its own load of steel and tarp it. There's alot more to driving than steering down a wide and dry pavement. We're probably very close to vehicles that have autopilot capabilities, but we're probably still a few decades away from completely autonomous vehicles that don't require any drivers.
AI is advancing as rapidly as computer chips and processors were advancing in the late 80's until recently. Before we know it, it'll be running our lives. Some will welcome it, some will be threatened by it.
I expect people-moving conveyances in built-up areas, urban areas, to be fully automated within a decade, maybe all the way out to two. They'll prove to be so utile and safe that personal automobiles will be banned...no licenses will be issued to humans. We screw up too much. Also, insurance will be so costly that only the wealthiest will be ablel to afford to drive their own vehicles in traffic...if legally allowed at all.
It's what I expect. Once the Teslas and the Bill Gates and others get wind in their sails, the world around them marches in step within a decade or so.
schlimm zugmann Well, they are here now. I'm sure you're aware of the fleet of self-driving Fusions Uber released in Pittsburgh. The cars seem to be pretty much capable now. It's the people that are hesitant and the insurance companies trying to figure out how to insure the things that are holding up mass integration. Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones. They are and rapidly improving. If cars can self drive on highways with the need to steer and avoid other vehicles, often driven by fools, can engineerless trains be far off?
zugmann Well, they are here now. I'm sure you're aware of the fleet of self-driving Fusions Uber released in Pittsburgh. The cars seem to be pretty much capable now. It's the people that are hesitant and the insurance companies trying to figure out how to insure the things that are holding up mass integration. Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones.
They are and rapidly improving. If cars can self drive on highways with the need to steer and avoid other vehicles, often driven by fools, can engineerless trains be far off?
The technology already exists and has been used on some isolated mining railroads all the way back to the late 1960's.
Getting regulatory approval to run unmanned trains over American freight mainlines with frequent grade crossings however, is a whole other ballgame, especially where any kind of Hazmat is concerned..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Shadow the Cats owner Tesla has their own issues right now. They are being sued for the first fatal accident in Flordia when a Tesla car on Auto drive under rode a Tractor Trailer making a turn. It turned out the cars Autodrive system was programmed from the Factory to ignore large Vertical overhead obstructions in front of it to not panic over road signs. Trouble was it ran under a Trailer and decapitated the driver of the Tesla and never applied the brakes of the car.
Tesla has their own issues right now. They are being sued for the first fatal accident in Flordia when a Tesla car on Auto drive under rode a Tractor Trailer making a turn. It turned out the cars Autodrive system was programmed from the Factory to ignore large Vertical overhead obstructions in front of it to not panic over road signs. Trouble was it ran under a Trailer and decapitated the driver of the Tesla and never applied the brakes of the car.
Do you know the rules of capitalization?
zugmannWell, they are here now. I'm sure you're aware of the fleet of self-driving Fusions Uber released in Pittsburgh. The cars seem to be pretty much capable now. It's the people that are hesitant and the insurance companies trying to figure out how to insure the things that are holding up mass integration. Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones.
I can see this Chip 'n Dale scenario when two of the are at a four way stop.
"After you".
"No, after you".
It seems to me that self-driving vehicles are being promoted heavily by Elon Musk and other technophiles who seem to believe that advanced technology will solve the world's problems or have a pathological need to appear to be on the cutting edge of such advances.
After having read the threads related to train-handling and the infinite number of variables involved, I would think that Musk and his ilk have not given much thought to the similar number of variables involved in driving a vehicle in traffic, dealing with the kid trying to cross a four-lane arterial street in mid-block on his bicycle, the out-of-town driver who suddenly needs to make a right turn from the left lane, etc., etc., etc.
Mookie Norm48327 zugmann Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones. AMEN! +2
Norm48327 zugmann Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones. AMEN!
zugmann Even with the bugs, they're probably better than most of the morons trying to drive while screwing with their phones.
AMEN!
+2
+3
Except I like to drive. Can't see how my corvette will be much fun in self drive! Guess I grew up when cars were cool, you know, like my 67' VW Beetle or my 69' Chevelle SS396 or even my original high scool car, a 1940 Chevy Special Delux with 42,000 original miles only driven to church on Sunday by a little old lady, really!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
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