SD70M-2 Dude and all, Thank you so much for the detailed answers. It was somewhat strange that the CPR killed off the Kettle Valley in salami like slices after completely rebuilding nearly the whole dang thing in the late fifities.
Nothing like new management at the top undoing what was accomplished by the previous management. Happens all the time.
On a personal note it is something I will be facing come September. A new Director for the Mining Dept. is being sought out at this very moment, the fourth one in four years and that includes a year without one. Every time they have to put their own stamp on things and we go way back to square one again. Rehashing the same old same old at meetings is getting very tedious.
Thanks for all the great pictures and videos of St Catherine's and area. Fonthill is a great little picturesque town on the old highway along the Niagara escarpment to the Falls. I was a good friend with one of the pioneers of Nn3 who lived there. He was good. It bottoms out at the Flying Saucer restaurant, Burger and Fries place, shaped like a flying saucer with lights swirling around the rim. They still service your car coming out in roller skates. They never stopped! Niagara Falls can be real nutty but fun. The CASO mainline went right thru the center of the street in the main tourist drag. Folks going to the Falls Casino would have to wait impatiently as the crossing signals and gates come on and a long freight would slowly slowly slowly crawl by, with the casino just on the other side. Was hilarious to see people yelling at the train from rolled down windows. Tracks ripped up in 2001 or 2002 much to the relief of the city council after more than a hundred years. No respect.
I'm watching and following the saga of the Hudson Bay Churchill Route intently. It can go either way at this point, rebuilt or tore up.
Its becoming a fly inn town and people are giving up on the port, which of course is a disaster and a strategic mistake. Native groups provide all the opposition to this.
Miningman Love that picture of the bridge...why was the line abondoned if trucks with tonnage have to go up and down 8% grades. Some things make no sense.
Love that picture of the bridge...why was the line abondoned if trucks with tonnage have to go up and down 8% grades. Some things make no sense.
That bridge formed the very west end of the famed Kettle Valley Railway, specifically the Coquihalla sub. The line over Coquihalla pass was abandoned around 1960 after severe washouts, despite the fact that the CPR had spent a fortune to turn the KVR into essentially a second mainline. After the washouts and the Coquihalla's abandonment all coast-kootenay through freight traffic was rerouted via Revelstoke, Golden and Cranbrook. This led to only local traffic being hauled on the KVR, which dwindled (demarketing?) until CP abandoned the last sections in the 1980s.
By the time of that 1967 photo the tracks on the bridge would only have been used to connect the CN and CP mainlines to reroute one's trains over the other's line in case of a blockage. The bridge is now trackless, not sure when the rails were removed.
The more recently built Coquihalla highway with its 8% grades et al has become a tv star on Highway Thru Hell. The railway faced the same hardships, and in its early years was sometimes closed for much of the winter. Barrie Sandford's books McCulloch's Wonder and Steel Rails & Iron Men are excellent reads if one wishes to learn about the KVR, with many great photos to boot.
Sandford Fleming's original CPR surveys had considered Coquihalla pass as one potential route for the transcontinental railroad, but later it was decided to avoid the Coquihalla's steep grades & high mountain snow and brave the Fraser canyon instead.
And I have been to the Niagara region and St. Catharines several times over the years Miningman (still have many relatives in that area) I've unfortunately never heard of that hobbyshop. Must have closed before I ever went down there. Just another thing I've missed I guess. Anyway here some shots I found a while back of CN and Trillium on the former NSCT lines in that area:
http://themodelrailwayshow.com/LayoutDesign/?p=2070
http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/street-running-in-this-classic-st-catharines-scene-cn-7168-has-just-serviced-various-industries-inc-gm-on-ontario-st-and-with-a-small-train-in-tow-is-returning-to-merritton-its-a-two-way-str
http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/brantford-isnt-the-only-city-that-has-featured-street-running-in-the-past-25-years-heres-an-example-shown-is-cn-7724-an-sw1200-off-roster-by-1990trundling-down-the-middle-of-welland-ave-in-s
http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/one-of-the-difficulties-with-older-photos-is-trying-to-pinpoint-just-exactly-where-the-image-was-taken-in-this-case-for-those-who-are-familiar-with-st-catharines-this-shot-would-be-just-about-righ
http://rymalstation.blogspot.com/2015/01/throwback-friday-4-cn-1349-at-thorold.html
http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/cn-would-relinquish-control-of-this-old-branchline-in-downtown-thorold-in-just-over-a-month-to-the-fledgling-port-colborne-harbour-railway-trillium-as-all-the-non-core-trackage-in-niagara-west-of-th
http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/cn-7316-and-7305-trundle-down-the-middle-of-pine-st-in-thorold-in-august-1999-with-what-was-apparently-the-last-run-to-the-gallagher-paper-plant-farther-up-the-street-near-albert-av-three-boxcars-wer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTuQmGajS9o
And here's hoping for a speedy rebuilding of the HBRY. Whatever happened to the sale of the line to some of the native bands, and why is Omnitrax still in the picture? They've made it very obvious that they want out.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Yes 4 track signalled main all the way from Winnipeg to Churchill that sings God Save the Queen automatically every morning with cappuccino stops en route no problem with the money blown on ex-spurts and windbags who can print 20,000 page word proposals and recommendations endlessly. They don't built it...labourers from First Nations re-build it.
Fellow I know very well here and worked with for some time billed half a million dollars for a drawing up a proposal for an institution elsewhere that went no where. The institution didnt get a dime or a consideration but he sure did. Non profit organization indeed, but with huge salaries.
All the while the native folk weep. Even up here I've seen watermelon $34.00...ridiculous. Can only imagine the luxury of a pear or a peach in Churchill. The whole thing is rotten, Shiny Pony PM and spineless, bone headed twits.
The men who built this would think they went to hell for their efforts.
Beautiful weather here..for my American friends 68F to 75F every day for weeks now down to a cool excellent sleeping 50F at night. Rain overnight to water things and well after the BBQ. Custom ordered.
Next week..leaving for 3 week+ vacay chasing trains all over the place. Health a bit shaky and suspect but no sense of urgency to get anywhere, have a pile of meds and taking the dog. Go slow. Hope to get to Rochelle and Maryland but we will see how it goes.
Thank You.
No vision from investors as in days gone by, no "can do, get it done attitude"...Provincial and Federal Governments, plenty of consultants, ex-spurts, studies and blabber, that whole thing an insiders game. The First Nations folks good heart, no money.
PM and his cabinet should immediately ask Omnitrax how much they want, negotiate and cut the cheque before lunch. Then hand over to the First Nations group with zero conditions. Provincial Government provides loans and grants at arms length, and VIA promotes and revitalizes tourist business or just get out of it and also hand over.
Everyone has a pipe ceremony and thats it.
I have 100% faith in the Native Groups making a success out of this.
10.5 million for a sleep deprived teenage killer who didnt have a shoulder to cry on handed over clandestinely just to stick it to the Americans.
At least Canadians coast to coast are outraged.
350 delegate groupies to accompany the PM to Paris to gleefully undermine our economy whilst dining on fine wines and goose livers in Paris. Meanwhile $12.00 for a jug of milk.
Ye reap what ye sow. Bad crops for the next few years.
NDGFYI., More on the Churchill Route. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/u-s-railway-won-t-bankroll-repairs-to-only-churchill-route-town-in-limbo-1.3509149 Thank You.
Let the political posturing begin!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
SD70M-2Dude- Have you been to the St Catherine's area? Used to be a great hobby shop "Niagara Central Hobbies" ...did a huge business in brass. Was there for many many years. Of all the things way up here in the north, my cable company was changing out all our "boxes" for recieving signals, starting talking to the installer and turns out he is from Niagara Falls and here on contract doing the work. He notices I'm a train buff, and tells me there used to be a great train store called Niagara Central Hobbies in St. Catherine's to which i say "you mean it's not there any more" and tells me it closed down. Spent a lot of Saturday mornings and money in that place. I was shocked.
We talked trains for a bit, he had only heard of the NStC&T.
I remember this area.
NS&T 15 along with work equipment including sweeper 23 and line car in the freight yard. 50-ton NS&T 1925St.Catharines 7/04/1953 Jim Shuman
Prety sure this was the place across the street from my Dads buddies place.
15 St.Catharines Joseph Testagrose Collection
My grandmother grew up in Welland, living a couple blocks from the Electric Park stop. She used to ride the NSCT all the time going to school or for shopping. In Thorold there are a couple streets with rails still in the pavement, one section was used until just a few years ago to serve a paper mill. Unfortunately rail service ended when a bridge on that section was condemned.
Miningman When I was a youngster and into my teens, everywhere you went, every town had something visible and important with railroads. Interurbans, coal docks, passenger depots, foreign roads, always something the same but different. That whole dynamic vanished so fast I'm still trying to figure it out.
When I was a youngster and into my teens, everywhere you went, every town had something visible and important with railroads. Interurbans, coal docks, passenger depots, foreign roads, always something the same but different. That whole dynamic vanished so fast I'm still trying to figure it out.
Gotta love trucks and taxpayer-funded highways.
My Dad had a good friend that lived in St. Catherine's, right across the street from where all the old equipment, line equipment, lots of motors were stored up. Would go over there on Sundays here and there and I was always fascinated by the lineup in that yard area. The stuff looked like it had been sitting there for some time and I never saw any movements.
People fondly remember the Niagara, St. Catherine's and Toronto.
When I was a youngster and into my teens, everywhere you went, every town had something visible and important with railroads. Interurbans, coal docks, passenger depots, foreign roads, always something the same but different. That whole dynamic vanished so fast I'm still trying to fiqure it out.
Today if you arrive in another town it's some kind of miracle that there are even rails left.
Great posting NDG...thank you very much.
I remember the Ashtabula quite well, can still picture it arriving and unloading in Port Burwell. Lots of activity. The D10's were quite busy. Usually 2 of them, sometimes 3, or even 4. The cooling breeze off Lake Erie, Burgers and fries wafting through the air, along with coal smoke, valve oil and steam. The sound of the whistles, the big blasts from the Ashtabula, finally a loaded train leaving town trailing the daily combine, D10's still busy around the roundhouse and the yard loading up the next bunch of hoppers. Best thing ever! ( as my dog would say).
I would watch intently from on high to just down below, usually sipping a Canada Dry Ginger Beer in a dark brown bottle or a chocolate milk in a smalll glass bottle with multiple rings in the glass near the top, with the pull open cardboard cap recessed in. Good stuff...was malted too!
I only heard about the sinking. Went back the next 5 or 6 summers and then infrequently after that, but I did go back. It was not the same. Not even close. Steam was dying everywhere and I could not believe it.
Funny how you know, even though you are not quite an adult yet, that it is was all just too good to last. You just knew it. Poof gone. The Ginger beer and the nifty chocolate milk bottles as well. Nothing was the same or ever as good.
Don't think a Diesel ever saw the place...perhaps when they tore up the rails.
Luv that short video and the CPR "on company service" coal distribution. Geez they had their own Mining Inspectors and some big shot coal guys In key locations..if I was born earlier that is what I would want to do.
Glad to hear the fires are not in your area, can be really tough on us classic guys breathing wise.
RME- replying on this thread about your comment on the "Film Crew Death" thread, because I refuse to post anything on any of those accident type threads.
So my comment is "Bravo, well said"
They just go on and on and on with the same bunch all the time playing engineer, investigator, judge, jury, lawyer, and so on. It is absurd and the domain of what the Brits call twits.
It never stops and bumps real good reading threads down the line. They certainly make are us all look bad. Nothing but garbage.
If I were Kalmbach I would post accidents, perhaps certain political pieces as a news item and provide relevant updates but not allow any comments, as in not open to comments. They can go on Facebook and continue their manly contest.
Thats our local grocery store! Native folk, Cree and Dene, come from all over the North bringing furs, leather goods, hides, beaded craftwork, baskets, blueberries, you name it. Some of the buckskin jackets are beyond belief. Huge pile of furs on the floor each day, where they are graded, bantering ensues, then a card handed over stating the amount of credit, or a cash transaction. A small portion of furs stay in the store for sale, most are then brought to the Hudsons Bay Co. fur center in Prince Albert.
The store also makes a lot of meat products, from sausage to specialty bacons. Ships out and supplies dry goods and food to all the exploration camps and mines.
Smells like heaven in there. Sweet grass and leather goods mix.
Oh..and of course our police is the Mounties..the RCMP..once in a blue moon you can catch one in the scarlet dress tunic in the store becuase something is going on. Last time was when the Prime Minister was here and once before when the Stanley Cup was in the store for a day. Other than that they look similiar to what you folks have as state troopers. A blue with yellow pinstriping.
Miningman, I LOVE those photos! What a throwback to the old days!
The only thing missing is Sergeant Preston (Of The Yukon) shooting the breese with the proprietor, with Yukon King by his side.
Anyone besides me remember that great TV show? Loved it as a kid!
NDG- How is the Forest Fire situation? Not great in BC but do not know if you are affected. Thankfully it's not our turn up here, at least not yet.
I see the Prime Minister has sent in the Army. They were here 3 years ago in one of the first deployments of fighting fires and learned a lot.
It was a mandatory evacuation.
NDG http://archive.bluebeetlecreative.com/image_view.php?ID=33435
An answer to a trivia question asked on a Canadian Railway forum many years ago. Did putting periods after the "C" and "P" in the reporting marks survive into the steel boxcar era? We can now answer in the affirmative.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
...and to to finish it off, here is our Ice Cream go to place. Now before you laugh, the lady makes fresh waffle cones and bowls during the day and if you are lucky you can get a super fresh one still warm. I went with chocolate peanut butter in a waffle bowl with extra chocolate sauce.
What would be an additional nice feature is if we had a D10 steaming away in the background.
Here are some pics I took this am at 'Robertsons" our local trading post, where you will find active bartering going on each day. Bring in your stuff from the traplines in exchange for credit on groceries, tobacco, clothing, boots, whatever. This is why I confused Robertsons with Robinson on a post. We are far from the rat race but not immune to the worlds problems. Human interest on the String Lining.
RE: 6060, I had intended to add this link to an earlier post but couldn't find it on youtube (as the uploader has unlisted it), but fortunately rediscovered that I had posted it in the old CPR 2816 thread along with my list of Canadian steam operations. Documentary on 6060's 1986 rebuilding and run to SteamExpo in Vancouver, with footage from both the Alberta Railway Museum and the now-demolished roundhouse in Jasper (that demolition is a story unto itself). Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6BYhSyqv4I
Thanks for that. Yes, I remember when you first posted it but could not find it, and thought perhaps an update now that summer is here was in order.
So there is reasonable hope for 6060 in the future. Such a shame that Delson, with all those goodies, has nothing to operate. Probably not in their mandate. A Selkirk and the CP 4-8-4 would be a dream, but likely stay that way, a dream and static.
I suppose trackage, as in where to run it, is a huge hurdle these days. Also insurance, expertise and red tape.
So disheartening about the Maritimes, who would believe that back in the day?
Wondering about the future as in the next generation. Maybe nothing left at all. Either that or you can 3D print up whatever you want in your own backyard.
...speaking of which, we just got our 3D printer at the school and now can model ore bodies and other geological structures. Not bad. Also 2 new drones, one for the Geology Dept. and one for the Surveying/Engineering Dept.
Keep those fires burning.
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