RMEDoes someone either have a recording/link for the locomotive horns or know the exact chords that the setup would blow?
I've been working on this since you asked the question, although I must yield the field when it comes to the searching abilities of others here.
I can clearly recall grainy videos of those horns being played on TV newscasts of the day, but I have searched the National Film Board as well as the video archives of the CBC and CTV networks, and I can't find anything.
It should be much easier than this.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
BaltACDRaced at Watkins Glen
I have friends who work on the safety crews there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
http://www.abcbookworld.com/view_author.php?id=264
http://www.railfame.ca/sec_ind/technology/en_2004_Airchime.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Swanson_(inventor)
Well there you are fella's...Wanswheel to the rescue. Brilliant. I had all but forgotten about this guy Robert Swanson. He was quite a railfan and did a lot more than just the horns and being the "Bard of the woods"
RME- I'm curious about this statement:
"Of course there are various reasons we 'couldn't' use it for a Bicentennial celebration, but aren't they just nit-picks?"
What reasons? Why?
http://muraltown.com/mural-art-gallery/25-waiting-whistle
http://www.dieselduck.info/historical/02%20articles/robert%20swanson.htm
One of the Railway Appliance Research's Shays was the subject of several photos in Trains (IIRC) many years ago. The photos were about getting it ready for a day's work - mainly about lighting the fire, filling the tank with water, loading it with sand, etc. Perhaps it was this issue:
- PDN.
Thank You.
Excerpt from 1897 article “Watt and the Measurement of Power” by W.H. Preece
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015023512588;view=1up;seq=249
I was surprised and pleased the other day to find in Marseilles that the man directing the electric tramcars in that city corresponding to the driver of the old horse-car, sometimes called in America the motorneer, is called the wattman, and I have since learnt that this term is very general in France.
I hope our friends in Glasgow who are about to introduce electric traction in their city will follow France's good example and honour one of their greatest mechanical heroes by inaugurating the same name in Great Britain.
http://richardfordmanuscripts.co.uk/catalogue/6207
wanswheel I was surprised and pleased the other day to find in Marseilles that the man directing the electric tramcars in that city corresponding to the driver of the old horse-car, sometimes called in America the motorneer, is called the wattman, and I have since learnt that this term is very general in France.
Mr. Wanswheel your are marvelous! in what you find!! The reason I asked the question re ' Wattman ' here!!
I had never heard the term before, esp. in connection with a ' Motorman ' operating a Streetcar, Subway or Interurban. I do not know what the operators of electric locomotives and MU cars were called in French on CNR in Quebec.
There is a cap badge on eBay from time to time similar to those worn by CNR Psgr. Conductors and Trainmen which bears the wording ' CNR Motorman ' which has not been clearly defined as to what it's job description covers.
Some say it is the Operator a ' Motor Truck ' which replaced horses and wagons ' Teamsters '.
Would like to know 4 sure.
The badges usually go for a good price when offered.
You are amazing! as is the material you unearth.
Merci.
Miningman"Of course there are various reasons we 'couldn't' use it for a Bicentennial celebration, but aren't they just nit-picks?" What reasons? Why?
The words to "Defence of Fort M'Henry" weren't even written until 1814; although the 'official' changes that made it "The Star-Spangled Banner" happened shortly thereafter, it would be highly anachronistic to put it in a Bicentennial celebration of any part of the American Revolutionary War (and most Americans would just as soon not remember certain parts of the war of 1812, the attack on Baltimore being one of those). After WWI, there were no fewer than six somewhat quixotic attempts to legislate the song as the national anthem, and only after some lobbying by the VFW did this pass ... in March 1931 (even the centennial of which is pretty far away).
Personally, I think the song is too hard to sing but too easy to murder, and I prefer some of the original lyrics from the Anacreontic Society, particularly combining the myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine ... but not the pun about drinking to the point of throwing up.
RME- Thanks for that. I'll be darned, you are correct, it's from the War of 1812. I knew that, just a duh moment.
I luv Jim Cornelison's rendition at the Chicago Black Hawk games at the United Center with everybody going bonkers in the stands. Quite a different scene and a very powerful delivery every time.
When the Habs ( Montreal) are in town playing the Blackhawks he will sing the Canadian Anthem in French. Amazing.
Nice film. The freeways have lots of room on them. PA #64 looks fabulous, what a beauty. The FT B obviously hold over from the steam era and the way it was done..looks just fine and practical as well.
Fun to hear the narrator pronounce “Los Angle iss,” like Art Linkletter of Moose Jaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZVw9rrXqw4&t=5m42s
You know, it's funny, but it wasn't 15 seconds after I saw this post that I was rummaging back in the CNR trestle fire thread, where I came across your post of this same video 'in context' back in 2016.
Not that hot here in Northern Saskatchewan this summer...it's been 75F at best, but beautiful everyday. Here and there rain but almost always overnight...flowers look spectacular and the bees are happy. Forest fire warning is at low level ..second year in a row. Year before that we were all evacuated and the army came up to assist with the fires.
The evacuation really sucked...people still plenty po'd about it. They gave me a toothbrush! Thats it. ...and a cot, not to keep....I said no thanks and paid for my own accommodations for just over 2 weeks.
NDG Miningman Well there you are fella's...Wanswheel to the rescue. Brilliant. I had all but forgotten about this guy Robert Swanson. He was quite a railfan and did a lot more than just the horns and being the "Bard of the woods" Explains a lot on the various ' O Canada ' horns for the train, trucks and the BC Hydro building in Vancouver, the latter much more melodic in the recording than the set on the 1867. Where did the horn set from 1867 go?? and the trucks? Mr. Swanson was connected with Railway Appliance Research in Vancouver where they had two 2 Shay locomotives on the North Shore under the Lions Gate Bridge. This Shay went to the USA. http://www.westonlangford.com/media/photos/110388.jpg The other remained in Canada and later had ' Robert E. Swanson ' lettered under the cab window. http://www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/110384/ http://yourrailwaypictures.com/Logging/BevelGears-jun6.jpg The small copper pipes carry oil to bearings from lubricator inside cab under front window, the lubricator being actuated by motion from motion. Scroll down. http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/28/Woods.htm I worked with Mr. Swanson doing a boiler washout, boiler inspection and hydro test on a locomotive. First job was to brush down inside of firebox sheets to remove oil soot.. Used shop air and locomotive blower, but, still a terrible job for those who had to do the brushing ( me ). The fuseable plug removed, the alloy top surface scraped clean of scale and reinserted. Fuseable Plug. Saturated Engine. http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t62/NDGee/Saturated_zpskcc7id5q.jpg The smokebox door would be opened, soot and sand scooped out with small shovel and washout plugs on front tubesheet removed so scale could be washed back to mud ring. We then washed out the boiler interior after removing washout plugs in backhead, front tube sheet and on four corners of the mud ring. A wand on a fire hose and pump was inserted into the washout holes in a pattern, one wand blocked on the outer end and a 1/2 inch hole in side just in from tip, used to flush scale side to side off top of crownsheet and down to mud ring. I had the ground job to ' rake ' scale out at bottom corners of mud ring and got soaked doing so. Rake was a piece of copper tubing bent into an ' L ', the copper to protect threads in boiler. The boiler was filled, safety valves removed, and all openings plugged for the hydro. We had shop steam and used one injector to fill boiler from tender with warm water. Mr. Swanson then entered the firebox and went around inside with a small ball peen hammer tapping the fire side staybolt ends, the reason being, that if a staybolt broke, it usually broke on the water side just beyond the sheet, and would not cause the hammer to bounce back the same as a solid staybolt would. A broken staybolt was marked with an ' X ' using a cold chisel and a hammer, too many, or close together could condemn the boiler for use. The staybolts down behind the firebrick did not get inspected. The boiler was ' squeezed ' from inside using water pressure and a gasoline fire pump onto the blowdown to a pressure a certain amount higher than working pressure and checked for leaks. Water then drained down slightly. Safeties reapplied, fire lit on oil using shop air, nice clean flame!! and temperature raised slowly, draining down water, which layered re temperature, from time to time thru blowdown to warm boiler behind bricks where flame could not heat. Once steam reached about 50 lbs. air hose removed, main turret stop valve opened and burner changed over to steam. Mr. Swanson was full of great tales of the bush, logging in general, and frequently alluded to ' The Whistle Farm '. Great teacher and raconteur. Thank You.
Miningman Well there you are fella's...Wanswheel to the rescue. Brilliant. I had all but forgotten about this guy Robert Swanson. He was quite a railfan and did a lot more than just the horns and being the "Bard of the woods"
From my previous post:
That FM H-10-44 is a beauty. Looks like it has the "Lowry styling canopy". What happened to it? Was it for real use or museum?
Not sure SD70-2 Dude would agree with your assessment .. think they run a pretty tight ship over there in Alberta. We all, however, understand what you are saying. Can you imagine if cell phones with games, internet and texting existed in the steam days!! Not good!
Pray for rain. Forest fires hard on the lungs and us older folk... been evacuated 3 summers ago and it was no fun...horrible inconvenience and costly. For our U.S. friends it's like staying at a FEMA camp.. but worse.. I left asap and paid for my own way sans government.
Talk about a bunch of Prima Donnas ... everyone your boss and all the time. Ridiculous.
I always have liked the Loewy-styled FM switchers for their looks, unfortunately PGE did not agree with me. The 1004 seems to have been their only FM unit, and it lasted a scant few years before being scrapped in 1975. A shame they didn't keep it around in the dead line, that back porch would have been the perfect place to hide from lower mainland rainstorms:
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/38934/title/pge-fm-h10-44/cat/595
Surviving H-10-44 (this one is the first locomotive built at FM's Beloit plant) at the Illinois Railway Museum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQqXtDdKTc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeqLbzoq2J0
Moving on, steeplecab 961 has had quite the life after BCER, moving on to Edmonton of all places in the late 1970s. Edmonton Transit used her to haul dirt out of the new LRT tunnels as they were being bored under downtown. Must have been quite the sight beside the then-modern Siemens U2 LRVs, with pole pockets, plain bearings and a cowcatcher (downtown IS full of wildlife):
http://www.barp.ca/bus/alberta/ets/lrt/2000/indexa.html
How many other steeplecabs lived long enough to exchange their trolley pole for a pantograph? I don't believe many other modifications would have been required; the Edmonton LRT runs on 600v DC, which I believe is the same system BCER used. Eventually "ETS 2001" was replaced by a GE 45-tonner (with side rods) which is still used today.
2001/961 was donated to the Edmonton Radial Railway Society, who stored her for a number of years before donating her to the Fraser Valley Heritage Rail Society (a decision some ERRS members now regret), who recently turned around and sold her to a group in Oregon, where in an earlier life she ran on the Oregon Electric.
And the air is getting very thick in central Alberta with all the smoke arriving from BC, it worsened throughout today and I expect that will continue tomorrow. Thoughts and prayers are with everyone who has evacuated, Slave Lake and Fort Mac know all too well how this can end.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
NDG Trains no longer fun, esp. steam and it's inherent risks even standing still.
As thrilling as operating steam can be, I understand where you are coming from NDG. Lots of hard, backbreaking work in hot, cramped spaces with plenty of things to hit your head on. I also know how frustrating it is to labour away on something while knowing full well you don't have the money to do a proper job.
And steam can be very dangerous. That's why even on an oil-fired engine the Fireman is so essential. Gotta have someone who is solely concentrated on the boiler and fire, with keeping the water level up his number one priority (even at the expense of steam pressure if the two conflict). As we know failure to do so can be fatal.
NDG The explosion of the Case tractor in Medina and a locomotive in Cuba just previous really opened my eyes. Too many Prima Donnas walking around talking about themselves when they should have been thinking and observing Safety First.
http://www.farmcollector.com/steam-engines/tragedy-at-medina-county-fairgrounds
http://www.farmcollector.com/steam-traction/final-report-tragedy-medina-county-fairgrounds
Note the myriad safety violations, such as fusible plugs being welded in place and the crown sheet being very thin. Had that boiler been properly inspected it would have been condemned, well before the owner/operator had a chance to let the water run low.
Another famous steam incident, as far as I can tell this is the most recent locomotive crown sheet failure in North America. The CPR/CLC boiler design saved at least 3 lives by failing gradually instead of exploding all at once:
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SIR9605.pdf
Again note the egregious safety violations. Prima Donnas and Yahoos indeed.
And if it could be enforced, what should the fine for Texting while Firing be?
Miningman .. think they run a pretty tight ship over there in Alberta
.. think they run a pretty tight ship over there in Alberta
Indeed they do. Alberta Prairie's steam operation is second to none. From their own water treatment plant right up to the experience and training of the employees they spare no expense. And even though their passenger operation makes little profit (if any) behind steam the owner has seen fit to spend literally millions of dollars on #41 to keep her in good shape, with some more major work scheduled for this winter's off-season.
The Alberta Railway Museum's steam program leadership is no different in their attitude, but as a penny-pinching nonprofit we have to get creative in assembling the labour & funds to get the work done (tax receipts are our friend!). And thank the Lord we have the right people in charge, one has worked on locomotives all the way back to 6218 (the other even longer, he started out shovelling coal for the CNR in the '50s!) and they always put safety ahead of everything else. If there is any concern in their minds, the locomotive stays cold. Though this may disappoint the passengers it is exactly the way things should be.
And I did say hello to 6060 and give her a pat for good luck, here she is displayed ouside her shop at Warden, AB, just south of Stettler:
http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=30004
And in happier times not so long ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LcbkqTfWPk
SD70M-2-Dude---Great stuff .. lots of information, thanks. Also for saying hello to my old friend 6060... don't know which one I rode the most behind 6060, 6218 or N&W J 611 .. it's pretty close, half a dozen trips each, but 6060 I definitely saw the most as she came by almost every day Toronto- Niagara Falls. 6218 I was solo, 611 was with the kids half the trips, 6060 was always with my 3 gals. Fond memories for all of us.
Sometimes life is kind.
How about trolley poles AND pantographs? South Shore Line had several "triple-threat" steeple cabs that were built with both trolley poles and pantographs and had provision for third-rail shoes. This was to allow them to operate on all three Insull interurbans out of Chicago. I don't think that it ever happened, though.
Beautiful shot of the 6153 and 5107 at Montreal.
6218 so sad...saw her last in 2007? Always made the detour trip to her if I was in the hood..was pretty shabby. What to do? Fort Erie gone straight downhill...I don't get it..booze, drugs, party, party, party, welfare takes care of it all, except a tax base! Familiar story these days.
Disturbing to hear of 6200 in Winnipeg. What the heck is going on.
Wake up people or civilization is lost.
SD70M-2 Dude and NDG and all-
3716 pulling train on isolated ex CPR line near Penticton.
Whats left of the Kettle Valley still has this along about 17 miles of trackage.
So gentlemen, am I to understand that this and the 2 gals that SD70M-2 Dude looks after in Alberta is all we have left of steam running in Canada? Something in Calgary still at the Park? Nothing in the East! ?
What happened to Credit Valley/Forks of Credit ?
Fund raising difficult these days...wonder if the St. Thomas bunch has something they could fix up for running.They have that CNR Hudson, but I don't know. Big rich country like this and we give it all away to the bad actors!
I'm confused.
Miningman the 2 gals that SD70M-2 Dude looks after in Alberta
the 2 gals that SD70M-2 Dude looks after in Alberta
Gotta clarify this first, I only help look after one of them, I am not affiliated with Alberta Prairie or their #41 in any way (just a big fan). And everything that happens at the Alberta Railway Museum is a group effort that I often play only a small part in, especially with 1392.
I do enjoy compliments, but there's no need to inflate my head any bigger than it already is.
Miningman Alberta is all we have left of steam running in Canada? Something in Calgary still at the Park? Nothing in the East! ? What happened to Credit Valley/Forks of Credit ? Fund raising difficult these days...wonder if the St. Thomas bunch has something they could fix up for running.They have that CNR Hudson, but I don't know. Big rich country like this and we give it all away to the bad actors! I'm confused.
Alberta is all we have left of steam running in Canada? Something in Calgary still at the Park? Nothing in the East! ?
The picture is not quite that bleak, there are a few others. In another thread some time ago I had made a list of the remaining and recently closed operations.
Quoting myself:
SD70M-2Dude Nova Scotia, P.E.I, Newfoundland & Labrador: None (the latter two have few or no railways). New Brunswick: Formerly the Salem & Hillsborough operated an ex-CN ten-wheeler, but they went cold years ago. Quebec: Delson (Canadian Railway Museum/ExpoRail) have never had a large engine running, and even the John Molson replica has been down for at least a year. Over in Gatineau the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield railway suffered washouts in 2011 and ceased operations then. Last I heard their equipment (including an ex-Swedish steam engine) was for sale. Ontario: The South Simcoe Railway operates ex-CP 136 (of National Dream and 'Tripleheader' fame) and Waterloo Central has a 0-6-0 switcher. SSR also has a CP 4-6-0 (1057, also part of the Tripleheader) but she has been cold for nearly 20 years. No big mainline excursions since CN 6060 returned to the west circa 1980. Manitoba: Prairie Dog Central's ex-CP 4-4-0 is the only steam here. I believe the two privately-owned 4-6-0's that were shipped up from the Eastern U.S. not too long ago are stored here, but of course would require a lot of work to run again. Saskatchewan: None. Alberta: Several operations here. Calgary's Heritage Park operates three ex-U.S. Army switchers (0-6-0?) on a loop, Fort Edmonton Park has a 2-6-2 originally from the deep South, the Alberta Railway Museum (where I volunteer) operates our ex-CN 4-6-0 1392 on a 0.5 mile demonstration track, and finally the Alberta Prairie Railway runs ex-Mississippian #41 (2-8-0) 20 miles from Stettler to Big Valley, which by my count is currently the longest steam run in the country (eek). Alberta Prairie also plays host to 6060 (now owned by the non-profit Rocky Mountain Rail Society) when she is running, but unfortunately that has not been the case since 2011 due to much-needed boiler repairs. Last I heard RMRS had raised about 2/3 of the money needed to fund the repairs, but will not be up and running until summer 2018 at least. She is the largest operating steam engine in the country when running. Oh and I almost forgot the now moribund 2816 in Calgary. British Columbia: Near Cranbrook Fort Steele has two engines, a 2-6-2 and a Shay (down for repairs) which run on a loop, in the okanagan the Kettle Valley Steam Railway has ex-CP 3716 (2-8-0) on a small section of remaining track, in Kamloops their heritage railway runs ex-CN 2141 (2-8-0, recently back in steam) on a CN spur (formerly they ran all the way to Armstrong before Kelowna Pacific went bankrupt and EHH came to CP), and to round out the mainland the West Coast Railway Association maintains Royal Hudson 2860 in Squamish, but they have not gone on a major run since before the Winter Olympics (2009?). Over on Vancouver Island there are numerous logging engines preserved at Alberni Pacific (2-8-2T and a Shay) and the B.C. Forest Discovery Centre in Duncan, which has (!) seven (Shays, Climaxes, 0-4-0T). Not sure how many are operable though. Finally last (but certainly not least) is the most remote operation of them all, but also easily the most popular: The bi-national White Pass & Yukon with their 2-8-2's and steam powered rotary plow.
Nova Scotia, P.E.I, Newfoundland & Labrador: None (the latter two have few or no railways).
New Brunswick: Formerly the Salem & Hillsborough operated an ex-CN ten-wheeler, but they went cold years ago.
Quebec: Delson (Canadian Railway Museum/ExpoRail) have never had a large engine running, and even the John Molson replica has been down for at least a year. Over in Gatineau the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield railway suffered washouts in 2011 and ceased operations then. Last I heard their equipment (including an ex-Swedish steam engine) was for sale.
Ontario: The South Simcoe Railway operates ex-CP 136 (of National Dream and 'Tripleheader' fame) and Waterloo Central has a 0-6-0 switcher. SSR also has a CP 4-6-0 (1057, also part of the Tripleheader) but she has been cold for nearly 20 years. No big mainline excursions since CN 6060 returned to the west circa 1980.
Manitoba: Prairie Dog Central's ex-CP 4-4-0 is the only steam here. I believe the two privately-owned 4-6-0's that were shipped up from the Eastern U.S. not too long ago are stored here, but of course would require a lot of work to run again.
Saskatchewan: None.
Alberta: Several operations here. Calgary's Heritage Park operates three ex-U.S. Army switchers (0-6-0?) on a loop, Fort Edmonton Park has a 2-6-2 originally from the deep South, the Alberta Railway Museum (where I volunteer) operates our ex-CN 4-6-0 1392 on a 0.5 mile demonstration track, and finally the Alberta Prairie Railway runs ex-Mississippian #41 (2-8-0) 20 miles from Stettler to Big Valley, which by my count is currently the longest steam run in the country (eek). Alberta Prairie also plays host to 6060 (now owned by the non-profit Rocky Mountain Rail Society) when she is running, but unfortunately that has not been the case since 2011 due to much-needed boiler repairs. Last I heard RMRS had raised about 2/3 of the money needed to fund the repairs, but will not be up and running until summer 2018 at least. She is the largest operating steam engine in the country when running. Oh and I almost forgot the now moribund 2816 in Calgary.
British Columbia: Near Cranbrook Fort Steele has two engines, a 2-6-2 and a Shay (down for repairs) which run on a loop, in the okanagan the Kettle Valley Steam Railway has ex-CP 3716 (2-8-0) on a small section of remaining track, in Kamloops their heritage railway runs ex-CN 2141 (2-8-0, recently back in steam) on a CN spur (formerly they ran all the way to Armstrong before Kelowna Pacific went bankrupt and EHH came to CP), and to round out the mainland the West Coast Railway Association maintains Royal Hudson 2860 in Squamish, but they have not gone on a major run since before the Winter Olympics (2009?). Over on Vancouver Island there are numerous logging engines preserved at Alberni Pacific (2-8-2T and a Shay) and the B.C. Forest Discovery Centre in Duncan, which has (!) seven (Shays, Climaxes, 0-4-0T). Not sure how many are operable though.
Finally last (but certainly not least) is the most remote operation of them all, but also easily the most popular: The bi-national White Pass & Yukon with their 2-8-2's and steam powered rotary plow.
If I have forgotten any or anyone has any updates feel free to correct me.
Elgin County's 4-6-4 (CN 5700, nee 5703) presents an interesting dilemma as an excursion engine. With those 80-inch drivers she would not be very good at low speeds, and her size & weight would be hard on light duty track. I am also not sure what condition her boiler is in (was it already in need of major work when CN retired her?). OTOH she is currently kept indoors in immaculate condition, and 3 or 4 coaches should be well within her capacity. As of 2 years ago she still looked like this:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/158473/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/75872/
I also believe the Credit Valley Explorer still operates, but with diesel power:
http://yorkdurhamheadwaters.ca/places-to-go/top-attractions/credit-valley-explorer/
Thanks for that. Yes, I remember when you first posted it but could not find it, and thought perhaps an update now that summer is here was in order.
So there is reasonable hope for 6060 in the future. Such a shame that Delson, with all those goodies, has nothing to operate. Probably not in their mandate. A Selkirk and the CP 4-8-4 would be a dream, but likely stay that way, a dream and static.
I suppose trackage, as in where to run it, is a huge hurdle these days. Also insurance, expertise and red tape.
So disheartening about the Maritimes, who would believe that back in the day?
Wondering about the future as in the next generation. Maybe nothing left at all. Either that or you can 3D print up whatever you want in your own backyard.
...speaking of which, we just got our 3D printer at the school and now can model ore bodies and other geological structures. Not bad. Also 2 new drones, one for the Geology Dept. and one for the Surveying/Engineering Dept.
Keep those fires burning.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.