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Can somebody explain to me what is the Logistic Sceince behind putting a CSX giant intermodal facility in the middle of a cornfield in NB Ohio ?

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 22, 2016 6:42 PM

schlimm
 
BaltACD
 
schlimm
Seems quite complicated.  

It is only complicated to minds that can't comprehend it.

Gee, you really must enjoy insults.  You never miss an opportunity to make personal attacks.  Sure, I question the assumptions and conventional wisdom expressed by some on here.  Often they are right.  But frequently they cannot give a coherent explanation or back up contentions with facts. It's known as an exchange of ideas which does not require ad hominem attacks as you do.

n012944, unlike you, gave a lot of reasoned, relevant information that explains the purpose of the CSX facility. 

Your question was after n012944's ... so?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, August 22, 2016 7:56 PM

Just one minor revision, DFW was built at the very edge of the Dallas and Fort Worth Metro areas in the countryside.    When I first came down here in 1991 for a training class it was in the middle of nowhere.    It is becomming built up now though but has enough runways to be competing for a while where it is.    Part of the agreement for Ft Worth and Dallas to shift their flights from the downtown airports was the new DFW would be built exactly halfway between the two downtown areas......and so it was.     Now Dallas has partially reneged and reopened it's downtown airport with additional noise that Ft Worth might also do the same.   I still think DFW will be here in the same location for another 2 generations.    Still plenty of land to expand.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, August 22, 2016 8:43 PM

In response to your 'title' question... Are you asking about the "Science" of putting the North Baltimore [Oh.} facility out in what was pretty much farmland?

Or are you trying to make some "Sense" of the Why it was put out in open ground in Northwestern Ohio?

IIRC the original numbers for the investment that CSX swas considering was somewhere between $150 and $200 million dollars(?).  In order to make that kind of long term investment; the railroad would have to consider their ability to make a sound return on it, and it would have to be at a point on their system where its location would make sense. The science and methodology of the Why and Where, would have to be made after much study. 

  One place to start would be a location within a given radius of large population centers; then land prices would be another large item of study... The management would pick a location that would work for their purposes (freight aggregation?) and authorize the expenditure....

 

 


 

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, August 22, 2016 9:03 PM

If you look at the map of the CSX system and where the larger population centers are it all starts to make sense. And way out in the country does make sense from a cost standpoint.. way cheaper than prime real estate that is close to a large city. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, August 22, 2016 9:12 PM

CMStPnP
Now Dallas has partially reneged and reopened it's downtown airport with additional noise that Ft Worth might also do the same.

One might wonder if DFW and the downtown airports might take on roles similar to Dulles and Reagan (National) in D.C.

I was going to point out what others already have - hubs aren't always in the major metroplexes - and at least partly for the same reason CSX built in the middle of a corn field.  I'm sure US Air's hubs at Charlotte and Pittsburg were cheaper to operate than they would have been in larger cities.

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:17 AM

Hubs can be anywhere. CSX seemed to chose this hub as there is a Junction at Delsher Ohio and Home Depot and Whirlpool has a distribution center as well as auto parts plants scattered around NW Ohio. If it were me I would locate in Columbus Ohio and rebuild the PRR Columbus- Pittsburgh connection aka Panhandle Line

 Fred Smith chose Memphis as his hub for Fed Ex due to good weather and low cost of labor-

"Company headquarters later moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis was chosen because of its central location within the U.S. and because Memphis International Airport was rarely closed due to bad weather. The airport was also willing to make the necessary improvements for the operation and additional hangar space was readily available.

14 planes, 186 packages

Federal Express officially began operations on April 17, 1973, with 389 team members. That night, 14 small aircraft took off from Memphis and delivered 186 packages to 25 U.S. cities from Rochester, New York, to Miami, Florida. Though the company did not show a profit until July 1975, it soon became the premier carrier of high-priority goods in the marketplace and set the standard for the express shipping industry it established."

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 1:16 PM

"Network intermodal battles trucks - European railways speed intermodal service with hump yards by Kraft, Edwin R. Chip, from Trains, January 2005p. 28 [ europe  france  intermodal  yard ]" 

However europe uses single stack cars and most TTX cars have "do not hump" on the side. (As far as using the spoon method to classify cars that would be a diffrent matter entirely) Seems here that CSX is using the fork method by picking up whole containers and tranfering them to the next dish.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 4:32 PM

CandOforprogress2
Hubs can be anywhere. CSX seemed to chose this hub as there is a Junction at Delsher Ohio and Home Depot and Whirlpool has a distribution center as well as auto parts plants scattered around NW Ohio. If it were me I would locate in Columbus Ohio and rebuild the PRR Columbus- Pittsburgh connection aka Panhandle Line

 Fred Smith chose Memphis as his hub for Fed Ex due to good weather and low cost of labor-

"Company headquarters later moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis was chosen because of its central location within the U.S. and because Memphis International Airport was rarely closed due to bad weather. The airport was also willing to make the necessary improvements for the operation and additional hangar space was readily available.

14 planes, 186 packages

Federal Express officially began operations on April 17, 1973, with 389 team members. That night, 14 small aircraft took off from Memphis and delivered 186 packages to 25 U.S. cities from Rochester, New York, to Miami, Florida. Though the company did not show a profit until July 1975, it soon became the premier carrier of high-priority goods in the marketplace and set the standard for the express shipping industry it established."

Columbus is an 'out of the way' location on the CSX network and not convient to any of the markets being served.  With CSX locating new terminals in such locations as near Montreal, QB, McKees Rocks, PA and Rocky Mount, NC in addition to the existing network they are actively seeking new business opportunities.  They recently started scheduled service between Atlanta and the Canadian facility.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 7:51 PM

BaltACD
They recently started scheduled service between Atlanta and the Canadian facility.

And one of the first northbounds hit a trespasser....  Hope that's not an omen.

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Posted by 466lex on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 8:07 PM
The eastern U.S. truckload market is short-haul.  CSX’s routes are already circuitous, compared to highway, and its average domestic length of haul is 525 miles and dropping.  CSX’s intermodal terminal costs consume 40% of line-haul revenue.  So to be competitive in nascent eastern markets, CSX decides to go “hub-and-spoke” at North Baltimore:  assuring additional line-haul circuity, slower transit time, added service uncertainty, and higher terminal cost to every move.
 
The price discount vis-a-vis truck (“Logistic Science”) to move any traffic via North Baltimore is profit-sapping. 
 
Yet, CSX Intermodal Terminals wants to replicate the mistake in North Carolina.  The wonders of transfer pricing are marvelous to behold.  When will CSXT intermodal management wake up?
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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:31 PM

[quote user="CandOforprogress2"]

Hubs can be anywhere. CSX seemed to chose this hub as there is a Junction at Delsher Ohio and Home Depot and Whirlpool has a distribution center as well as auto parts plants scattered around NW Ohio. If it were me I would locate in Columbus Ohio and rebuild the PRR Columbus- Pittsburgh connection aka Panhandle Line

*[ Fred Smith chose Memphis as his hub for Fed Ex due to good weather and low cost of labor]*

"Company headquarters later moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis was chosen because of its central location within the U.S. and because Memphis International Airport was rarely closed due to bad weather. The airport was also willing to make the necessary improvements for the operation and additional hangar space was readily available.]

14 planes, 186 packages

Federal Express officially began operations on April 17, 1973, with 389 team members. That night, 14 small aircraft took off from Memphis and delivered 186 packages to 25 U.S. cities from Rochester, New York, to Miami, Florida. Though the company did not show a profit until July 1975, it soon became the premier carrier of high-priority goods in the marketplace and set the standard for the express shipping industry it established."

 

[/quote]

    FedEx started at Little Rock Ar.('70-71). The 'story' continues,  at some point they ran afoul of the Arkansas Tax Collectors;     It was, at some point,(71(?) decamped  Arkansas. Memphhis being a logical alternative to having their planes(etc.?) confiscated by the State of Ar.  For some time Arkansas airspace,necessarily, was no-fly for them, until State tax issues were resolved.  Which is why FedEx got 'started' in Memphis.      

 

 


 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 9:58 PM

CatFoodFlambe

Simply put - it's essentially the "Chicago Yard" for CSX's intermodal traffic - they do the same thing with containers and trailers that Willard does with carload freight.

  

 

 

A simple explanation might be that as a"HUB' and aggregation center for TOFC and COFC.. North Naltimore,Ohio is center to a circular distribution net that encompasses some major population centers within a single drivers day [>< a 10 hour driving time) . One could also use NB,Oh as center to a 200 mile circle, for the same rationale.   a 200mile radius put one close to a major portion od the US population in the upper midwest; a potentiallly ideal situation for a hub and spoke distribution network.

 

 


 

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Posted by 466lex on Thursday, October 6, 2016 5:12 AM

The role of North Baltimore in the CSX intermodal network?

 

"They report.  You decide.":  http://thecourier.com/local-news/2016/09/17/how-many-regional-jobs-has-csx-railyard-created/

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Thursday, October 6, 2016 6:51 AM

(The role of North Baltimore in the CSX intermodal network?)

 

Reading through that link, it looks like the yard is doing exactly what CSX planned, sorting. They didn't build space for container storage so weren't planning on many trucks. It's everyone else that is judging them for not doing trucks.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, October 6, 2016 12:44 PM

CSX is following Wal Mart's lead of placing distribution centers where they can serve the most stores within a one day drive. Makes good sense.

Norm


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