Don't know how much help this is, but I live 20 mi from the scene and was out with camera the following morning. The feed lot north of hwy 50 and tracks sits atop a veeerry steep hill and would generate tons of energy in a runaway truck scenario. Law enforcement have interviewed the driver, but the resulting information won't become public for some time (unless there is a leak).
Thanks for the info. The powers that be seem to be rather close mouthed regarding this one. Perhaps they don't want the media crucifying the train crew or others like was done with Amtrak 188. OTOH, this one wasn't as bad so the media has lost interest quickly.
Norm
Norm48327 Thanks for the info. The powers that be seem to be rather close mouthed regarding this one. Perhaps they don't want the media crucifying the train crew or others like was done with Amtrak 188. OTOH, this one wasn't as bad so the media has lost interest quickly.
Media Rule 1 - If it bleeds it leads.
Very little blood, nobody died, railroad not visibly culpable of creating the incident. Let it die out of the 'news cycle'.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
A couple of points.
[1] Even when the cause is very clear and well known, the NTSB will still not release a cause or finding until every potential cause is investigated and studied. The NTSB examines things like this in detail, often holds a hearing, and then releases a full report before they state the full cause. This can take days, months, or even years. For this, I would expect a month or so.
[2] Track can easily be moved to the side by almost any vehicle strike. A simple car can move the track over, something often found at grade crossing accidents where a car misses the crossing. I have also cleaned up behind a tractor with a disc striking the track, a number of car and truck strikes, and even from small 4-wheelers bouncing over the tracks.
[3] Initial reports from the NTSB and others is that the track had an alinement deviation of 12"-14" at the location. The maximum for a passenger train going 60 mph (FRA track class 3) is 1-3/4" in 62'. The alinement deviation reported certainly seems to be more than sufficient to cause the derailment.
For those of you who subscribe:
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/03/22-sw-chief-truck
For those that do not according to an article in the Trains Newswire the truck was "a driverless runaway" according to local law enforcement.
One other comment,
When I looked to see who else had this, I could not find any other mention.
narig01 For those of you who subscribe: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/03/22-sw-chief-truck For those that do not according to an article in the Trains Newswire the truck was "a driverless runaway" according to local law enforcement.
And if the truck was not there when the SWC came through, those that removed the truck must have seen the damage that was done to the track and still failed to report the happening to the railroad or the local authorities.
There has been much discussion about not reporting hitting the tracks. "IF" this was a runaway truck it may be the reported truck ran down a hill crossed the road and ran up the ROW embankment. Unattended it may have rolled back down ROW embankment ? If so how far the feed company found the truck away from track may indicate why no one saw that the track or even ROW embankment was hit ? Night time runaway truck ? Also was the steering wheel locked or free wheeling which may affect how truck ended up ? We need a first hand report from someone to give us some measurements. Davews ?
Remember the opposite Limited also crossed the derailment area at night.
Agreed BS1, more information would be welcome. Perhaps the potential liability of Cimmaron Feeders is the reason none is forthcoming.
The scenario you paint is within reason given the grade from the silo area to the road and the fact the tracks are elevated on the other side. Looking in street view on Google Earth there is a spot where the truck could have crossed the road, hit the track, and rolled back from the ROW as you describe. Runaway truck sans driver? Possible, but we won't know till NTSB releases some information. Either way, I would not like to be the person who was responsible for the truck at the time.
I may have typed too soon. Just found this on newswire. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/03/22-sw-chief-truck
Truck was a driverless runaway.
blue streak 1Unattended it may have rolled back down ROW embankment ?
My thoughts as well. If the truck was found a distance from the tracks, the feed lot folks may have been thinking, "whew - it didn't go over the tracks..." And, since they aren't railroaders, they may not have given much thought to how much deflection in the rail might be significant, assuming they saw it in the first place. Note our own earlier skepticism that a vehicle could move the tracks...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
While it may have been driverless at the time it came down the hill - how far away from the truck was the driver and/or other personnel when it began to roll? Did they follow the runaway? From their vantage point once they noticed the runaway, were they or should they have been able to view the complete path of the runaway? Did the runaway take place during daylight or dark?
"Bolted rails"?
NOT CWR, NOT continuous welded rail!
Likely as Blue Streak says and "IF" 'Dad' sent one of the 'Boys' down to get the truck, it's not likely the 'son' thought much past the " Oh 'snap', he's gunna kill me", to even notice the track or even think to look.
What might have happened after it ran down the hill and crossed over US-50 is it hit the ballast and track knocking it out of alignment then bounced back rolling into the ditch between the tracks and highway. Later when someone noticed the truck was not where it belonged they saw the truck down the hill thru a hole in the fence(presuming there was a barn wire fence) next to the tracks. First thought upon seeing the truck was at least it didn't hit a car on the highway. Went and recovered the truck not realizing the extent of the damage. Stupid yes. Not thinking things thru yes. Civil liability absolutely. Criminal liability another matter, and would be very dependant on how the law is written. Otherwise this becomes an industrial accident.
Drove by again last week and noticed the hill north opposite point of impact is not as steep as it is further east. Wire fence at top wouldn't be a restraint. The ditch adjacent to row is fairly shallow. A critical finding will be pinpointing the spot where truck was parked immediately prior.
Using measurements from Google Earth shows a drop of about 50 feet in a quarter mile from the silo area to the road. That's a pretty good grade that would get the truck moving right along.
Something official:
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/DCA14MR004_prelim.aspx
Comment in the email I got the link in: "Note no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing. Bam, right into the main."
tree68 Something official: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/DCA14MR004_prelim.aspx Comment in the email I got the link in: "Note no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing. Bam, right into the main."
Larry (tree68): Can't really comment on the 'e-mail comment' you got with the link you posted. Apparently, its' author has not spent a lot of time in Western Kansas. { Check with mudchicken on our 'flatlands', and 'Flatlanders'.} No unusual for the terrain features mentioned to exist out there. The lack of: "... Note: no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing. Bam, right into the main.".." are pretty common feautres there, your correspondent is a lawyer (?). Strange thing about that track line is that as the route of the Southwest Chief (both East and Westbound) and over the last couple of years (more or less) it has been the subject of much scrutiney and several millions of dollars spent upgrading the line. Not to mention several special trains that traversed the area with the intention of showing off the line. One who think with all that 'brass' looking over the place, no problems would go unnoticed... I guess' cowboys' operating feed trucks were not in the plans?
samfp1943Apparently, its' author has not spent a lot of time in Western Kansas.
Pennsylvania, I believe.... Although it is "western" Pennsylvania...
I would opine that this was such a "one off" event that it would be hard to predict - especially the feed truck rolling down the hill. Probably more predictable would be a vehicle going off the road and into the ROW - but if that hasn't happened for who-knows-how-many years, why expect it at all?
Tree: Stopped by there Tuesday morning on my way east. Pretty much as Samfp described. (my old territory, had to look)...There is something of a disconnect: How did the truck leave the feedlot and make two 90 degree turns to "bite" the track...Struck the track in the 1954 era 132# rail section, just east of welded rail in 3 light curves...There is more 136 CWR lying on the ground waiting to go in along with ties for all the crossings (program mtce was about to happen with an extra gang)between Dodge and Ingalls...
The NTSB report ought to be an interesting read.
MC,
I believe the truck went in a straight line from the feed storage area down the hill and across the road. There was a comment in one of the news reports about a gap in the fence (likely made by the truck). It would appear the driver failed to set the brakes before getting out. No 90 degree tuns involved.
Norm: looked for that west of the crossing...no evidence of a straight shot, no fence repair, no two track evidence across the very dry grass on the hill.
I'll go a little further in speculation,
The truck after striking the track bounced back a few feet from the track. I would also have to ask how did the feedlot realize the truck was off the property? If someone noticed it was off the property down the hill. Would they have noticed the track damage in the dark?
narig01 I'll go a little further in speculation, The truck after striking the track bounced back a few feet from the track. I would also have to ask how did the feedlot realize the truck was off the property? If someone noticed it was off the property down the hill. Would they have noticed the track damage in the dark?
Not knowing the traffic volume on the line in question, are we sure the truck rolled down the hill and was removed from the scene in the dark?
I am unsure about the Santa Fe line. Having said that BNSF has been downgrading the line for a number of years.
US-50 not that busy at nite. US-50 is basically a two lane highway with very broad shoulders. The shoulders are a little wider then the traveled portion of the roadway, though NOT a four lane highway. During daylight it tends to be busy. At nite I can remember not passing other traffic for 5-10 minutes at a time.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8120999,-100.3822966,689m/data=!3m1!1e3
Looks like Cimmaron Feeders needs to change the number on their sign.
Norm48327 Looks like Cimmaron Feeders needs to change the number on their sign.
Not really, none of their people were affected; however, if they are really profitable they may need to change the sign to 'Berkshire Hathaway Feeders', or file for bankruptcy because of the liability judgement they won't be able to pay.
BaltACD Not really, none of their people were affected; however, if they are really profitable they may need to change the sign to 'Berkshire Hathaway Feeders', or file for bankruptcy because of the liability judgement they won't be able to pay.
The big claims in this are going to be from the train crew and passengers who were injured in the derailment. Two people were airlifted by helicopter, and that gets pricey.(and the companies that fly the helicopters do collect their fees)
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