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Amtrak Wreck in Kansas

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:27 AM

Cimmaron should have call these guys after finding thier missing truck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1O2X890tig&nohtml5=False

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:49 PM

Experienced railroaders that have contact with field operations know how suseptable the track structure is when it is struck from the side and knocked out of line.  In days gone by the local section gang would shift lateral track location with nothing more than men, lining bars and a chant.

 

On my carrier, whenever a report is received that a car is on or in contact with the track, or a traffic accident has happened on a road crossing at grade, the MofW is notified to inspect the track and a Restricted Speed speed restriction is placed on the track until it is inspected.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:32 PM

Legalese at work Chuck. I'm certain there will be "discovery" proceedings and the complaint will be amended to reflect the findings of such.

In the meantime, I would hate to be the employee responsible. He's likely now unemployed, broke, sweating blood, and possibly facing legal sanctions for his behavior.

Norm


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Posted by cefinkjr on Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:23 PM

Thanks for the link, Norm.

IMHO, the complaint is weakened by the fact that it makes no attempt to identify the times involved.  When did the truck hit the railroad?  And, based on that, what were the light and weather conditions at the time?  When was the truck removed from the right of way?  And, again, what were the light and weather conditions at the time?

Then paragraph 19 becomes a problem; particularly if the truck was recovered during darkness and/or bad weather.  How far was the truck from the nearest rail when it was recovered?  Did it strike the track and remain actually on the roadbed in contact with the rail or did it, as is more likely, roll back toward the edge of the ballast and the edge of the right of way?

All of these taken together damage the assertion that Cimarron employees "knew or should have known that the truck caused damage to the railroad".  Many of us, including experienced railroaders, were at least a little surprised that a truck could have caused as much damage as this one apparently did; why should Cimarron employees have known, particularly if they did not see the truck hit the rail, see the truck in contact with the rail, or observe that the rail was displaced?

Understand, I'm not trying to defend Cimarron.  I'm merely saying that whoever drew up the complaint didn't do a very thorough job, IMO.

Chuck
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Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, April 9, 2016 3:59 PM

Well, there goes the price of beef. Crying

But seriously, both Amtrak and BNSF are fully justified in suing. Let's hope Cimmaron Feeders has a healthy liability policy so they are not forced into bankruptcy. Sad that this happened and someone tried to cover it up but perhaps the truck was not against the track when they found it and they had no idea it had displaced the rails.

Link to the federal court complaint:

http://www.kwch.com/blob/view/-/38946150/data/1/-/cd433cz/-/court-documents.pdf

Norm


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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, April 9, 2016 2:56 PM
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Posted by narig01 on Friday, April 8, 2016 8:17 AM

PS That will mainly be people's lawyers trying to collect from the owners of the feedlot. 

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Posted by narig01 on Friday, April 8, 2016 8:03 AM

BaltACD

 

 

 

Not really, none of their people were affected; however, if they are really profitable they may need to change the sign to 'Berkshire Hathaway Feeders', or file for bankruptcy because of the liability judgement they won't be able to pay.

 

Most businesses involved in trying collect from another business would rather try to keep the other business going. As it usually is easier to collect from an ongoing business.

      The big claims in this are going to be from the train crew and passengers who were injured in the derailment. Two people were airlifted by helicopter, and that gets pricey.(and the companies that fly the helicopters do collect their fees)

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 7, 2016 4:02 PM

Norm48327

Looks like Cimmaron Feeders needs to change the number on their sign. Wink

Not really, none of their people were affected; however, if they are really profitable they may need to change the sign to 'Berkshire Hathaway Feeders', or file for bankruptcy because of the liability judgement they won't be able to pay.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 3:17 PM

Looks like Cimmaron Feeders needs to change the number on their sign. Wink

Norm


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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, April 7, 2016 12:59 PM
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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 12:37 PM

I am unsure about the Santa Fe line. Having said that BNSF has been downgrading the line for a number of years.

     US-50 not that busy at nite. US-50 is basically a two lane highway with very broad shoulders. The shoulders are a little wider then the traveled portion of the roadway, though NOT a four lane highway. During daylight it tends to be busy. At nite I can remember not passing other traffic for 5-10 minutes at a time.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 7, 2016 12:10 PM

narig01

I'll go a little further in speculation, 

The truck after striking the track bounced back a few feet from the track. I would also have to ask how did the feedlot realize the truck was off the property? If someone noticed it was off the property down the hill. Would they have noticed the track damage in the dark?

Not knowing the traffic volume on the line in question, are we sure the truck rolled down the hill and was removed from the scene in the dark?

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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 11:58 AM

I'll go a little further in speculation, 

The truck after striking the track bounced back a few feet from the track. I would also have to ask how did the feedlot realize the truck was off the property? If someone noticed it was off the property down the hill. Would they have noticed the track damage in the dark?

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, April 7, 2016 6:35 AM

Norm: looked for that west of the crossing...no evidence of a straight shot, no fence repair, no two track evidence across the very dry grass on the hill.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, April 7, 2016 4:19 AM

MC,

I believe the truck went in a straight line from the feed storage area down the hill and across the road. There was a comment in one of the news reports about a gap in the fence (likely made by the truck). It would appear the driver failed to set the brakes before getting out. No 90 degree tuns involved.

Norm


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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 10:06 PM

Tree: Stopped by there Tuesday morning on my way east. Pretty much as Samfp described. (my old territory, had to look)...There is something of a disconnect: How did the truck leave the feedlot and make two 90 degree turns to "bite" the track...Struck the track in the 1954 era 132# rail section, just east of welded rail in 3 light curves...There is more 136 CWR lying on the ground waiting to go in  along with ties for all the crossings (program mtce was about to happen with an extra gang)between Dodge and Ingalls...

The NTSB report ought to be an interesting read.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 10:33 AM

samfp1943
Apparently, its' author has not spent a lot of time in Western Kansas.

Pennsylvania, I believe....  Although it is "western" Pennsylvania...  Indifferent

I would opine that this was such a "one off" event that it would be hard to predict - especially the feed truck rolling down the hill.  Probably more predictable would be a vehicle going off the road and into the ROW - but if that hasn't happened for who-knows-how-many years, why expect it at all?

LarryWhistling
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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 10:20 AM

tree68

Something official:

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/DCA14MR004_prelim.aspx

Comment in the email I got the link in:  "Note no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing.  Bam, right into the main."

 

Larry (tree68): Can't really comment on the 'e-mail comment' you got with the link you posted. Apparently, its' author has not spent a lot of time in Western Kansas.  { Check with mudchicken on our 'flatlands',  and 'Flatlanders'.}  No unusual for the terrain features mentioned to exist out there.   The lack of: "... Note: no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing.  Bam, right into the main.".."  are pretty common feautres there, your correspondent is a lawyer (?).    Strange thing about that track line is that as the route of the Southwest Chief (both East and Westbound) and over the last couple of years (more or less) it has been the subject of much scrutiney and several millions of dollars spent upgrading the line.  Not to mention several special trains that traversed the area with the intention of showing off the line. One who think with all that 'brass' looking over the place, no problems would go unnoticed...  I guess' cowboys' operating feed trucks were not in the plans? Bang Head

 

 


 

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:29 AM

Something official:

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/DCA14MR004_prelim.aspx

Comment in the email I got the link in:  "Note no ditch line, no fence, no concrete Jersey barriers, nothing.  Bam, right into the main."

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, March 28, 2016 12:59 PM

Using measurements from Google Earth shows a drop of about 50 feet in a quarter mile from the silo area to the road. That's a pretty good grade that would get the truck moving right along.

Norm


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Posted by davews on Monday, March 28, 2016 12:30 PM

Drove by again last week and noticed the hill north opposite point of impact is not as steep as it is further east. Wire fence at top wouldn't be a restraint. The ditch adjacent to row is fairly shallow.  A critical finding will be pinpointing the spot where truck was parked immediately prior.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:07 AM

What might have happened after it ran down the hill and crossed over US-50 is it hit the ballast and track knocking it out of alignment then bounced back rolling into the ditch between the tracks and highway. Later when someone noticed the truck was not where it belonged they saw the truck down the hill thru a hole in the fence(presuming there was a barn wire fence) next to the tracks. First thought upon seeing the truck was at least it didn't hit a car on the highway. Went and recovered the truck not realizing the extent of the damage. Stupid yes. Not thinking things thru yes. Civil liability absolutely. Criminal liability another matter, and would be very dependant on how the law is written. Otherwise this becomes an industrial accident. 

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 9:11 AM

Likely as Blue Streak says and "IF" 'Dad' sent one of the 'Boys' down to get the truck, it's not likely the 'son' thought much past the " Oh 'snap', he's gunna kill me", to even notice the track or even think to look.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:55 AM

NOT CWR, NOT continuous welded rail!

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:29 PM

Sigh"Bolted rails"? 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:53 PM

While it may have been driverless at the time it came down the hill - how far away from the truck was the driver and/or other personnel when it began to roll?  Did they follow the runaway?  From their vantage point once they noticed the runaway, were they or should they have been able to view the complete path of the runaway?  Did the runaway take place during daylight or dark?

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:00 PM

blue streak 1
Unattended it may have rolled back down ROW embankment ?

My thoughts as well.  If the truck was found a distance from the tracks, the feed lot folks may have been thinking, "whew - it didn't go over the tracks..."  And, since they aren't railroaders, they may not have given much thought to how much deflection in the rail might be significant, assuming they saw it in the first place.  Note our own earlier skepticism that a vehicle could move the tracks...

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Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 2:56 PM

Agreed BS1, more information would be welcome. Perhaps the potential liability of Cimmaron Feeders is the reason none is forthcoming.

The scenario you paint is within reason given the grade from the silo area to the road and the fact the tracks are elevated on the other side. Looking in street view on Google Earth there is a spot where the truck could have crossed the road, hit the track, and rolled back from the ROW as you describe. Runaway truck sans driver? Possible, but we won't know till NTSB releases some information. Either way, I would not like to be the person who was responsible for the truck at the time.

I may have typed too soon. Just found this on newswire. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/03/22-sw-chief-truck

Truck was a driverless runaway.

Norm


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