At least 29 people were hospitalized early Monday after a cross-country Amtrak train derailed in southwestern Kansas.
Amtrak confirmed that its Southwest Chief 4 train derailed approximately 20 miles west of Dodge City shortly after midnight local time.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/14/injuries-reported-after-amtrak-train-derails-in-kansas.html?intcmp=hplnws
This news event is also posted on the Passenger forum, where it belongs.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Reports of a possible kink in a rail and "noises" for 20 minutes before the wreck...
Of course, if it's the "ubiquitous 20 minutes" we encounter in the fire service, it could be five, but, still...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
My SWAG is 60-40 on a broken wheel or flange. The 40% is on a broken rail.
ChuckAllen, TX
Euclid.... engineer noticed a significant bend in a rail ...
Help Wanted: BNSF is looking for an experienced Track Supervisor to fill a newly opened position.
Also: Disclaimers like this really frost me: "The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because the official wasn't authorized to speak publicly about the federal investigation." So why was he speaking to the reporter? If you're not authorized to speak publicly about something, keep your mouth shut!
My worth.
What has been the temperature differential between High and Low in that area the past several days.
My carrier had Heat Orders out last week because of temperature differential and highs into the 80's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD What has been the temperature differential between High and Low in that area the past several days. My carrier had Heat Orders out last week because of temperature differential and highs into the 80's.
Track supervisor and roadmaster most likely have no more concerns than Amtrak crew, mechanical or anyone else to this point. Details need to be carefully examined and collected.
Five minutes could be 6-7 miles here, 20 minutes could be 25 miles, all the way back to the last station stop at Garden City.
(And now, there is something else being proposed as having moved the rail ... Detective KissyMyTrainfinder has just oozed onto the scene looking for agridummies and or errant rubber tired bubbas.....next!)
tree68 Reports of a possible kink in a rail and "noises" for 20 minutes before the wreck... Of course, if it's the "ubiquitous 20 minutes" we encounter in the fire service, it could be five, but, still...
At 80 MPH that is a mile every 48 seconds.
What I (don't) like about the original link (aside from the obvious 'break' in spelling) was that the whole second half was 'human interest heartwrench.' No facts, no details about the actual physical event, but we now know that some female passenger called her mother...
Then the comments section immediately degenerated into a political flame war.
Bah, humbug. Let me know when an official accident report is released.
Chuck (Southern Nevada spectator)
mudchicken........MP 373 to MP 375 out there are getting a serious going ........
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
tomikawaTT What I (don't) like about the original link (aside from the obvious 'break' in spelling) was that the whole second half was 'human interest heartwrench.' No facts, no details about the actual physical event, but we now know that some female passenger called her mother... Then the comments section immediately degenerated into a political flame war. Bah, humbug. Let me know when an official accident report is released. Chuck (Southern Nevada spectator)
That's typical of today's media. Don't be concerned with facts, make some up and interview all the neighbors and make sure they cry when you do. It's nothing less than pure unadulterated garbage reporting.
Norm
Guarantee you the track department is walking or riding the corridor...local news video was showing them measuring from the POD back or looking for the POD to determine how things came to rest. Looking for cuts, nicks, pattern wear, disturbed ties and ballast locations....anything that looks out of whack. Track supervisor is probably looking from last known stop and hi-railing into POD looking for anything of note. Mechanical guys and operating folks are running their own audits, usually closer to the POD and all three groups are staying in touch and passing data to wreckmaster/EIC for the railroad who is then working with the outside agencies.
Chuck: you expect the "newsworkers" to even get "just the facts" correct before they embellish the crap out of things?
BaltACD tree68 Reports of a possible kink in a rail and "noises" for 20 minutes before the wreck... Of course, if it's the "ubiquitous 20 minutes" we encounter in the fire service, it could be five, but, still... At 80 MPH that is a mile every 48 seconds.
I should note that the story didn't tie the two together, and I didn't intend to. What I read (and Euclid quoted) indicated that the engineer saw the deformity and dumped the train. The noises were reportedly heard by a passenger for ~20 minutes before the wreck.
As you note, though, even five minutes at almost 80 MPH makes for a substantial distance to search for clues. Just as a f'rinstance, if a cotter key turned up missing, and the noise really did start 20 minutes earlier, it could be laying on the roadbed 25-30 miles away. Needle in a haystack time...
tree68 BaltACD tree68 Reports of a possible kink in a rail and "noises" for 20 minutes before the wreck... Of course, if it's the "ubiquitous 20 minutes" we encounter in the fire service, it could be five, but, still... At 80 MPH that is a mile every 48 seconds. I should note that the story didn't tie the two together, and I didn't intend to. What I read (and Euclid quoted) indicated that the engineer saw the deformity and dumped the train. The noises were reportedly heard by a passenger for ~20 minutes before the wreck. As you note, though, even five minutes at almost 80 MPH makes for a substantial distance to search for clues. Just as a f'rinstance, if a cotter key turned up missing, and the noise really did start 20 minutes earlier, it could be laying on the roadbed 25-30 miles away. Needle in a haystack time...
A missing cotter key wouldn't cause the engineer to apply the brakes in emergency for something he viewed ahead of him.
I understand that the locomotive had a forward facing camera. It will be interesting to see what the engineer saw. Hope it gets released soon.
BaltACDA missing cotter key wouldn't cause the engineer to apply the brakes in emergency for something he viewed ahead of him.
I was referring to the reported noise that had supposedly been going on for 20 minutes before the derailment. And the cotter key was just a placeholder for whatever changed that may have caused the noise. If, indeed, something came loose, it could have been any of a number of things.
Until we hear further, though, the kink (or whatever it was) is probably the prime culprit, especially with reports of a possible vehicle hitting the tracks beforehand coming to light.
Chicago TribuneThe tracks run along Highway 50, which has no barrier that would prevent a vehicle from leaving the roadway and driving near or onto the tracks. The road and tracks are separated by a shallow depression. Authorities were examining tire tracks leading to the rails. The damage did not appear to be intentional, Gray County sheriff's Deputy J.G. Sharp said.
Authorities were examining tire tracks leading to the rails. The damage did not appear to be intentional, Gray County sheriff's Deputy J.G. Sharp said.
tree68 BaltACD Agreed. I was referring to the reported noise that had supposedly been going on for 20 minutes before the derailment. And the cotter key was just a placeholder for whatever changed that may have caused the noise. If, indeed, something came loose, it could have been any of a number of things. Until we hear further, though, the kink (or whatever it was) is probably the prime culprit, especially with reports of a possible vehicle hitting the tracks beforehand coming to light. Chicago Tribune The tracks run along Highway 50, which has no barrier that would prevent a vehicle from leaving the roadway and driving near or onto the tracks. The road and tracks are separated by a shallow depression. Authorities were examining tire tracks leading to the rails. The damage did not appear to be intentional, Gray County sheriff's Deputy J.G. Sharp said.
BaltACD
Agreed.
Chicago Tribune The tracks run along Highway 50, which has no barrier that would prevent a vehicle from leaving the roadway and driving near or onto the tracks. The road and tracks are separated by a shallow depression. Authorities were examining tire tracks leading to the rails. The damage did not appear to be intentional, Gray County sheriff's Deputy J.G. Sharp said.
Reminds me of the Bayou Canot bridge and the Sunset Limited. The barge didn't hit the bridge intentionally. But it did knock the rail out of line.
BaltACDAt 80 MPH that is a mile every 48 seconds.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
The track in question was apparently good for 75 (probably 80). Given that, it's hard to imagine how a rubber-tired automobile could leave a highway, cross a shallow depression (drainage ditch?), and have any effect on the parallel track. Maybe a heavily loaded truck, certainly an M1A1 tank with some effort (in a neutral steer*), but an automobile?
* For the non-tankers out there, a neutral steer is when a tank's transmission is put in neutral, the steering wheel (levers?) put hard over in either direction, and power is applied. The result is the tracks going in opposite directions; tearing up whatever the tank is sitting on at the time and possibly removing one or both tracks. To be honest, I'm not even sure an M1A1 is capable of this; the M48 and M60 of my day were.
CShaveRR BaltACD Your carrier has strange speed tables. On my railroad, a mile goes by in 45 seconds at 80. If you take up 48, you're doing 75. 50 is 72.
Your carrier has strange speed tables. On my railroad, a mile goes by in 45 seconds at 80. If you take up 48, you're doing 75. 50 is 72.
Fat fingers at work - I meant 75.
cefinkjr ...but an automobile?
We had a log truck bottom out on a trail crossing and take it out very definitively - and at a low speed.
And it was on track that had just been rehabbed...
Driven along this line many times on US 50 in a big truck, mostly flat ground with few obstructions, believe former AT&SF passenger line is still mostly jointed rail. This wreck will have political repercussions as BNSF has stated it wants to downgrade maintenance from 79 mph track and sell the line to states of Ks, Co, and NM. No military tanks in area but plenty of heavy ag and some oilfield trucks and private crossings. To kink a rail frame of truck would have to drag and hook something, driver would certainly be aware. I bottomed out once on former MP mainline in San Antonio, didn't hurt the rail but sure damaged reefer trailer. Called UP dispatcher and MOW was there fast, Texas Eagle was due in a few hrs.
tk48 Driven along this line many times on US 50 in a big truck, mostly flat ground with few obstructions, believe former AT&SF passenger line is still mostly jointed rail. This wreck will have political repercussions as BNSF has stated it wants to downgrade maintenance from 79 mph track and sell the line to states of Ks, Co, and NM. No military tanks in area but plenty of heavy ag and some oilfield trucks and private crossings. To kink a rail frame of truck would have to drag and hook something, driver would certainly be aware. I bottomed out once on former MP mainline in San Antonio, didn't hurt the rail but sure damaged reefer trailer. Called UP dispatcher and MOW was there fast, Texas Eagle was due in a few hrs.
As many readers around here are aware the line, and the fate of the route of AMTRAK's SW Chief in question has been the subject of discussion off and on in Threads on this Forum. BNSF has alternately pushed to get the 'Chief' rerouted ( possibly to ultimately abandone the line (?) and pushed for the State's entities to provide funding to upgrade the line and provide other' enhancements' along the line in Kansas, Colorado, and new Mexico. The area of the most recent (Cimarron,Ks area) derailment of the SW Chief was apparently not in the plan for rehabilitation to-date. The first phase of the announced plan( in Oct. 2015) has been completed accrding to a media TV interview, no phase two is to be moved on.
One of the local TV stations has been providing coverage from the scene over yesterday and this morning. They showed some of RJ Corman's equipment re-railing a couple of the derailed passenger cars that had been laid over in the derailment. Five of the seven cars were envolved and showed some damage to their sides from 'sliding' when grounded.
The media is crediting the trains engineer with quick action after his observing a problem with the trck ahead, and making a timely emergency brake application.
There is also some 'conversation' in the media[ from unnamed sources] that the track may have been 'damaged' at some point by a previous incident involving a crossing and 'a truck'(?) No details have been provided in those statements.
tree68 cefinkjr ...but an automobile? We had a log truck bottom out on a trail crossing and take it out very definitively - and at a low speed. And it was on track that had just been rehabbed...
Oh, yeah. I've seen that or similar a time or two, but an automobile and not at a crossing?
cefinkjrOh, yeah. I've seen that or similar a time or two, but an automobile and not at a crossing?
The reports only mention "tracks." Nothing about what type of vehicle that I've seen...
We'll see what they come up with.
In conjunction with the vehicle tracks they also menioned "damage". Specifically, they mentioned damage that did not appear to be intentional. I wonder if the damage is being associated with a cause of a vehicle strike, and what the damage looks like. If this track damage derailed the train, I would expect there to be track damage at that point that was caused by the derailment.
NTSB guy probably will speak again at 4:30 central time.
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20160315.aspx
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/speeches/EWeener/Pages/bio_weener.aspx
T'warn't no car....
http://www.kmbc.com/news/ntsb-feed-truck-hit-shifted-tracks-before-amtrak-derailment/38531252?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_campaign=KMBC%209%20News%20Kansas%20City&Content%20Type=Story
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