A crazy day, but at least it was short!!!

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Older locomotives have removable automatic airbrake handles specificly designed to deal with brake men.
Stopping your little local was fine, I would have tossed the brakeman out at that point, let the trainmaster pick him up.
Randy

Would've whacked(beat) him there and cleaned up the mess later for the poor next crew and trainmaster . . .

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kolechovski

The experienced/smart engineer was right, the haughty brakeman was an *** and was clearly wrong. You did what you had to, but at least you could have had them reply sooner to the call than leave the guy on the other end wondering why nobody's responding.

Jeeezzz!!!

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n_stephenson

LC,

Thanks for the previous ancedote. Wow, we don't have anybody threatening the lives of others verbally, but there is one engineer qualified conductor that scares everyone to death. Many people lay off if they get called to work with this person. Recently this "person" was called as an engineer to take a piggy back to Chicago because there were no available engineers. On the return trip the chief road foreman rode back with this person and the word is he called up our road foreman and told him it was the scariest ride of his life. The "person" had no idea what signals to follow, what track they were on half the time, and had to rely on using that little yellow ball on the computer screen to keep speed, and had all their timetables and rule books out in front of them!!! I'm fine with referencing your rule books and timetable to make certain of something, but this person relies on these books the entire trip every time! I'm no engineer, but I believe the lay of the land is a much better indicator as well as trailing tonnage and what you have pulling the train. To say the least the chicago road foreman had a talk with our road foreman, but I don't know if anything will be done. This "person" as a conductor sleeps all the time and when they have to get on the ground they are a lost cause. One time this individual had to pull out of a yard track with 55 cars. The movement was stopped at about 30 cars and then the engineer was told to back up. In the meantime the conductor had thrown the switch underneath the train. Soon enough there were cars on the ground. The reply of the conductor was: "the switch didn't look right, so I threw it." [V] How this person still works for the RR, I don't know. This individual is capable of devastating things due to their own ingnorance or just plain "wacked" state of mind. The terrible thing for those of who are called to work with this individual must make a choice; do I risk working with this individual at great personal danger or the risk of getting time on the street or do I call off sick and risk disciplinary action??? A no win situation.

Wasn't there something like that in the Trains magazine?

[Anonymous]

Ed, funny you talk about three step in my training. When I was remote training in October the superintendant of the Chicago Division came down for a visit. I was the controlling operator and I was opening a knuckle while switching and I didn't walk at least 25 ft away when I crossed behind the cut of cars. The "super" made a bet with my trainmaster that I didn't have three-step when I made that move. Later that day both of them came up to me and my instructor and asked if I had three step, and I said: "What? Do you think I'm crazy!, Of course I had three step!" My trainmaster turned to the "super" and said: "See? I told you!" Then I was asked why I crossed behind the cut of cars from a distance then if I had three step. I told them that even if I have three step I still am always going to try to leave a way out for myself. You just never know what can happen.
So, yes three-step is a huge part of training and so is proper radio procedure. When shoving cars I must declare three things before the engineer moves. 1) the position of switches in our move, and that they are lined for our movement 2) that I'm in the clear 3) the distance in the shove in fifty foot car lengths.

[arbfbe]

Sterling1,

You are so fired. End of career.

If you get into an argument you are suspect. If you get hit by another person even if you did nothing to provoke it, you will be withheld from service pending the investigation. The carrier's position will be that since you decided to stay in the confrontational situation you are as guilty as the person delivering the blow. You might be allowed to return to work after a time but in order to make a point the railroad will probably dismiss the both of you and let the neutral at the NLRB sort it out after 12 - 18 months if you get expedited handling. If you do hit back and strike the other individual after being struck by him, you are gone. No neutral will likely put you back. That is the harsh reality. You hear stories of blows going unpunished but they are rare any more.

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Sterling1,

You are so fired. End of career.

If you get into an argument you are suspect. If you get hit by another person even if you did nothing to provoke it, you will be withheld from service pending the investigation. The carrier's position will be that since you decided to stay in the confrontational situation you are as guilty as the person delivering the blow. You might be allowed to return to work after a time but in order to make a point the railroad will probably dismiss the both of you and let the neutral at the NLRB sort it out after 12 - 18 months if you get expedited handling. If you do hit back and strike the other individual after being struck by him, you are gone. No neutral will likely put you back. That is the harsh reality. You hear stories of blows going unpunished but they are rare any more.

Do the railroads also include how control one's temper against a situation such as that? I don't want to go in and find out that they don't teach anger management. Seriously!!!

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer
That brakeman should be reported to both the trainmaster and the union.The railroad doesn't need employees who work dangerously

Are there situations where the difficult employee is a brother/nephew/other relative to, say, a big wheel in the union, so reporting him would get you in trouble?

[edblysard]

Michael,

It really dosn't add that much chatter...

Example would be, if I had pulled a cut out of a track, and needed to release the last handbrake, when the movement had stopped I would call the engineer.

"Port Job 152, mobile One(me) will be in the red zone"

engineer replies, "Port Job 152, set and centered"

Two quick, easy to understand sentances.

Now, until the engineer hears, "Port Job 152, mobile One is clear of the red zone", the engineer can not move the train.

Before the red zone or three step protection, we relied on the engineer reconizing our voices.

As a courtsey, we would tell him we were "going in between", but it wasnt required,

The problem is that, in yards especially, there are several jobs using the same channel, and quite a few people didnt bother to id their jobs when giving instructions.

So, the engineer might hear a voice say "shove 'em back ten times", and assume its his foreman giving the instructions, and away he goes, while you are still in between.

This has happened to me a few time, the top end foreman has the same, twangy west texas accent I have, and on the radio, we sound the same.

The red zone/three step protection came into being about two/three years ago, based on the SOFA recomendations.
(SOFA, switching operations fatalitites analysis)

Proper radio procedures require the ground crew to use the train ID anytime they need a movement, be it shoving, dragging, or kicking cars.

The red zone/three step has re-enforced that.

Take it from someone who has already been on a ride down a yard track, in between cars, holding on to a brake wheel, with the other hand holding me up on the next cars end platform, hoping there is a lot more room in the track than the engineer thinks....
Red Zone/Three step protection was a much needed safety rule, and one which should be drummed into the heads of all new engineers and ground crews!

Ed

[Anonymous]

Working up in one of the Chicago yards there is so much radio chatter that sometimes I get walked on while doubling my train together. Most engineers follow the rules in this situation, but some have suprised me. If an engineer does not hear from me within half the shoving distance he must stop and wait for me to talk to him. I must continue to let him/her know that my eyes are on the move. In the Chicago yards I tend to get walked on a lot by other crews, so my engineers don't know I'm talking to them. I usually try to stay several tracks away from my tie because sometimes engineers will just keep going even though I'm telling them THAT'LL DO!!!!!!!!!! But, they can't hear me! Most engineers who don't hear from me just stop and wait for the chatter to subside, then the call me and ask if I'm ready to start up again; that's definitely the way i prefer and now I brief the engineer to PLEASE stop if they don't hear from me!!!

[Anonymous]

N_s-

I always stop if I even think I have gone much past half the distance my Conductor gives. Too many times Engineers don't watch the ground or the cars on an adjacent track to estimate distance and it gets them in BIG trouble. Look at the UP crew that shoved a car through a warehouse wall or the incident I described in a prior post where a student engineer shoved a cut of haz mats out over a derail on to the main bercause the Conductor's last instruction was "just keep shoving". It just isn't worth my job. I'd rather stop and have someone ask me why...

LC

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral.

Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground.

If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out.

Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral.

Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground.

If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out.

Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly.

Yes, you did. Until you made this comment I hadn't bothered to read your bio. Now that I have I see why your responses reflected a lack of maturity. Now I understand. Good luck in high school...

LC

[ericsp]

Nathan and Ed, thanks.

The engineer did not say "set and centered", I am sure I would have asked him what this meant. I wonder if the engineer saying "red zone" on this shortline is considered acceptable.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Nathan and Ed, thanks.

The engineer did not say "set and centered", I am sure I would have asked him what this meant. I wonder if the engineer saying "red zone" on this shortline is considered acceptable.

Depends upon what that short line's safety and operating rules provide.

LC

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral.

Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground.

If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out.

Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly.

Yes, you did. Until you made this comment I hadn't bothered to read your bio. Now that I have I see why your responses reflected a lack of maturity. Now I understand. Good luck in high school...

LC

Thanks LC I have always welcomed a friendly boost from fellow railfans and railroaders in a non-rail friendly household and community. It's very little supprt from people who just don't understand and know about RR.

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral.

Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground.

If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out.

Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly.

Yes, you did. Until you made this comment I hadn't bothered to read your bio. Now that I have I see why your responses reflected a lack of maturity. Now I understand. Good luck in high school...

LC

Thanks LC I have always welcomed a friendly boost from fellow railfans and railroaders in a non-rail friendly household and community. It's very little supprt from people who just don't understand and know about RR.

I'm still at the station of life where immaturity is overly common. It'll burn off the top when I get older and more aged . . .