Trains.com

. Locked

5848 views
77 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:32 AM

I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong?

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:29 AM

Mookie

Schlimm - I agree w/you about different facets of railroading.  But we do have some crossovers - an op to a non-op.  But it isn't fair that if someone has a career in say MOW and they try to post something about the most effective way to do XYZ and some one else tears their post apart and not always with accuracy - wouldn't that irritate you after awhile.  We don't depend on the forum for a paycheck.  So I/we can be a little thin-skinned.  But no matter what job they do on the railroad they should be allowed to explain or answer and unless they are totally incorrect, they shouldn't be badgered off the forum.  

 

"Badgered off"?   We are supposed to be adults. Each is free to come and go of his/her own volition.   Asking a question and even challenging someone's view is not "tearing them apart."   And frankly ad hominem attacks were by railroaders as well as by outsiders, maybe even more so.  The "yes, but" ad nauseam postings can be ignored out of fatgue, but instead the railroaders and their defenders (at least one of whom left) got personal and nasty.

Andd there are plenty of fine railroaders, current and/or retired who make frequent interesting posts who are ok with some give and take: eg., zugmann, Jeff Hegert, BaltACD, Carl, Mudchicken, to name a few.

In most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:00 AM

SJ, I agree. It is one thing to point out a difference that has been observed on another railroad/at another location; it is quite another thing to say that a person who is involved in railroading daily is absolutely wrong.

At times, I have made a statement which was wrong--and when I was corrected by someone in the railroad industry, I was glad to be set right.

Johnny

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 9:49 AM

Ulrich

Probably not too many, but who knows for sure. More than likely people leave over the years due to changing interests and life circumstances. We're all going to stop coming here eventually.

 

attrition I understand.  But behind the scenes tell me that even tough railroad workers are disgusted with things they post always being dissected and argued over.  They have the job and continue to go to work there every day.  That is their claim to information about it.  What right do others who are not in the industry, maybe never have been, have - to do much more than just ask questions, not push their agenda of the way it should be or even is!  

And yes, there are some in all postings that should be on the "argue forum".  They never tire of constant "poking".  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 9:41 AM

Schlimm - I agree w/you about different facets of railroading.  But we do have some crossovers - an op to a non-op.  But it isn't fair that if someone has a career in say MOW and they try to post something about the most effective way to do XYZ and some one else tears their post apart and not always with accuracy - wouldn't that irritate you after awhile.  We don't depend on the forum for a paycheck.  So I/we can be a little thin-skinned.  But no matter what job they do on the railroad they should be allowed to explain or answer and unless they are totally incorrect, they shouldn't be badgered off the forum.  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:52 AM

Probably not too many, but who knows for sure. More than likely people leave over the years due to changing interests and life circumstances. We're all going to stop coming here eventually.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:24 AM

Mookie

Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it.  I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me.  We had a lot of railroad workers on here.  This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel.  Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?  Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters. 

 

I wonder how many real railroaders have left because they got upset?  I have been here almost eight years and it seems likely a fairly small number.  

Also, if someone works in one aspect of a railroad, it hardly follows that they are much more expert on another aspect than an outsider. Is a flight attendant an expert on flying a plane?   Is a rail accountant an expert on engine maintenance?   Is a locomotive engineer an expert on grade crossing designs?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:00 AM

Mookie
Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?

This.

If someone has worked long and hard to gain the respect of their working peers, why should they come here to have some I-think-I-know-it-all tell them they haven't a clue what they're talking about?

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:46 AM

BaltACD

 

 
Mookie

Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it.  I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me.  We had a lot of railroad workers on here.  This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel.  Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?  Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters.

 

If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career.  You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin.  If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.

 

I agree.  But if you work w/it at your job, why would you want to come home and relax/read the forum and have this again - SOSDD?  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:42 AM

gardendance
I certainly wouldn't want to be in a world where everybody agreed with me, that would be too boring.

Agreed, but: Dissent based on logic and reality are readily accepted by most. OTOH, arguments based on wishful thinking and misinformation are quickly dismissed by those who have the correct answers.

Norm


  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:40 AM

*

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:34 AM

BaltACD

 

 
Mookie

Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it.  I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me.  We had a lot of railroad workers on here.  This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel.  Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?  Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters.

 

If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career.  You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin.  If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.

 

That is so true, Balt.   And it is true in other fields as well, or to least used to be.  In an academic world rife with 'helicopter parenting' and 'safe zones' and 'trigger warnings' we have moved to a victim culture where disagreement and criticism are becoming taboo.   Civility is one thing; mutual patting on the back quite another.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:12 AM

I don't think you can equate a career (mine is fine, BTW) with a forum.   Two separate things. 

 

It's not a question of being thin-skinned; it's a matter of what value do I get out of this (even if it's jsut entertainment value)?  And that value has not been there in a long while.   Maybe it'll cycle back and be better some day.  Or not.   Not the first forum to go away, and not the first one I stopped posting to.   Mookie is right on with her observation.  Take a look at topics from several years ago to see the active posters that were around then.  We lost a lot of good names for many reasons. Sure we gained a few since, but I don't think it's a balanced equation.

 

As always, that is my opinion. 

 

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • 964 posts
Posted by gardendance on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:06 AM

I certainly wouldn't want to be in a world where everybody agreed with me, that would be too boring. As I mentioned before in other threads, I can't imagine how anyone's posts to me could get me to quit, not just because I have the power to ignore, but I haven't found any social media site that doesn't have the same controversy as that about which you're complaining.

Unless I'm to give up internet posting altogether, which some may argue would be a good thing both for me and those forced to read my posts, I'll continue. I like to suspect that professional railroaders would do so too. Are you sure you're not just succumbing to feeling that the good old days were always better? How do you know that those people who claimed to be railroad workers really were what they claimed to be?

How do you know why they no longer participate? Did most of them give fairwell posts before you never heard from them again?

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:52 AM

Mookie

Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it.  I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me.  We had a lot of railroad workers on here.  This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel.  Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?  Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters.

If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career.  You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin.  If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:38 AM

Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it.  I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me.  We had a lot of railroad workers on here.  This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel.  Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?  Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters. 

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • 964 posts
Posted by gardendance on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 4:45 AM

Oh you guys. You fooled me for a few seconds, I thought this was the DECENT thread. Of course the only true way to find sassification is to get a higher reply to view ratio than the other thread. Mine has had a 2 day head start, and the counter says 59 replies, 1,737 views, or 3%. You have 1 reply, 64 views, or 1%. Let's see where you stand in 2 days.

If I lose I'll give you a free yacht ride. If I win I get to take you on a free yacht ride.

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Monday, December 7, 2015 10:43 PM
 Myself and some of the other ilk do, on occasion, pop in.
The fact that some people here can't accept the fact that those of us who do this for a living might actually know what we talking about has most of us looking elsewhere.
I've been called a lot of things in my life, but never decent

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
.
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, December 7, 2015 10:02 PM

*

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy