Common excuse you often hear is "yeah, but at least I act 'normal' when posting, these other idiots are just trying to start trouble".
If one has always been a narcissistic control freak, I guess that becomes their "normal" ?.
-too tedious to continue-
Boy, I'll say. Some of the biggest whiners I can recall here, seemed to have 'control' obsessions. There are people who are quite content so long as they are the ones calling the shots. Let someone else dare behave in a manner which the 'control fixated' person fails to approve of, and they whine and moan (and likely stomp their feet too, but you can't see that on the internet) as though the world has been turned upside down.
Odd thing being, those types of people seldom stop to realize that they have no more right to decide how someone else is supposed to behave on the internet, than others have a right to dictate to them how THEY are to behave.
zugmann I don't think you can equate a career (mine is fine, BTW) with a forum. Two separate things. It's not a question of being thin-skinned; it's a matter of what value do I get out of this (even if it's jsut entertainment value)? And that value has not been there in a long while. Maybe it'll cycle back and be better some day. Or not. Not the first forum to go away, and not the first one I stopped posting to. Mookie is right on with her observation. Take a look at topics from several years ago to see the active posters that were around then. We lost a lot of good names for many reasons. Sure we gained a few since, but I don't think it's a balanced equation. As always, that is my opinion.
I don't think you can equate a career (mine is fine, BTW) with a forum. Two separate things.
It's not a question of being thin-skinned; it's a matter of what value do I get out of this (even if it's jsut entertainment value)? And that value has not been there in a long while. Maybe it'll cycle back and be better some day. Or not. Not the first forum to go away, and not the first one I stopped posting to. Mookie is right on with her observation. Take a look at topics from several years ago to see the active posters that were around then. We lost a lot of good names for many reasons. Sure we gained a few since, but I don't think it's a balanced equation.
As always, that is my opinion.
Dan
Jeff, I certainly appreciate what you and others in, or retired from, the industry have to say--especially when you and they correct me. There are many others, not in the industry, who make valuable contributions (and corrections).
I do become weary of some of the back and forth that really adds nothing (except, in some cases, humor).
Also, I miss some of our contributors who, for one reason or another, no longer let us know their thoughts.
Johnny
*
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The title of this thread had me worried. I thought that some unknown webcam on my laptop (that I use at the AFHT motel) had become active.
For a short while some years back, there were three other co-workers on here. Two weren't on for very long. They seemed to have been lost because of one of the forum IT "improvements." One of them wasn't a big railfan, AFAIK anyway. The other was, and is, and I was surprised he didn't return.
The fourth guy is still on here, but maybe not as much as he used to be.
Jeff
edblysardMyself and some of the other ilk do, on occasion, pop in. The fact that some people here can't accept the fact that those of us who do this for a living might actually know what we talking about has most of us looking elsewhere. . . . [snipped - PDN.]
Murphy SidingEdit button, lower right hand corner of your post will do the trick.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
M636C Let's just not use apostrophes in thread titles until the forum software can cope with it...
Let's just not use apostrophes in thread titles until the forum software can cope with it...
It's just tough to remember not to use proper punctuation, especially when it looks fine when composing, and the bad effect only manifests after submitting the post, and then it's too late to fix it. I don't know how to change a title after the thread's created.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
And sometimes a disagreement just becomes too tedious to continue. Also, if most of the subjects are, for instance, east coast subjects and you live on the west coast, the interest level wanes. So maybe people (fans and railroad workers) left because there was really nothing to add to any of the conversations.
Balt - I don't think thick or thin skin should even be part of the conversation. Polite conversation doesn't require it.
BaltACD If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career. You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin. If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.
If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career. You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin. If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.
BaltACD, there was a time I would have agreed wholeheartedly with you but by the time I retired, nearly five years ago now, the culture had changed so much that one had to be wary of what one said because one never knew who might misconstrue, take offense, run to the nearest official, exaggerate, or otherwise wreck remarks made or overheard. Thick skin had nothing to do with it. Having said that, I will say that when I started, not quite as long ago as you, but nearly, it was a far different place, populated by a whole group of WWII vets and even men from before that, and those old guys, well, you had to have or had to acquire a thick skin.
Could I ask that when developing thread titles, people consider:
'
It might be preferable to delete the apostrophe that causes this, replacing it with a space or forgetting it altogether.
Alternatively, could the Forum mechanics make a modification that allows apostrophes in forum titles...
Either way, both the decent and indecent threads are equally affected...
M636C
Murphy Siding edblysard Oh shoot...we forgot the pack of clowns! Dave, oh Dave, where are you? On the Milwaukee of course. With Mike Sol...in the presidents office I am sure.
edblysard Oh shoot...we forgot the pack of clowns! Dave, oh Dave, where are you?
Oh shoot...we forgot the pack of clowns!
Dave, oh Dave, where are you?
On the Milwaukee of course.
With Mike Sol...in the presidents office I am sure.
23 17 46 11
Mookie Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?
One thing about the internet, people will disagree with just about anything you say, just as an excuse to try and prove they know something useful. Everybody's ego is on trial when posting in front of a crowd. Plus...many who are insecure, take disagreement as confrontation, even when the disagreement they feel 'confronted' by is only intended as per the above.
A lot of the people who are gone, had acute personality conflicts with other specific members, as I recall. Those type of people will seek out sparing partners wherever they go, it's just the nature of who they are.
If the only way an individual can find happiness is if all people around them assume a subordinate role, is it fair to blame everyone unwilling to subordinate themselves for the former's displeasure with them?
Think about that last part, it keys into many of the friction filled relationships I've seen here over the years.
Mookie schlimm In most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds. This is where you are getting away from what I am looking for (information) and going into the philisophical. If you are going to delve into this on a forum, then it should be as gentlemen - on both sides. Otherwise, take it to e-mail.
schlimm In most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds.
This is where you are getting away from what I am looking for (information) and going into the philisophical. If you are going to delve into this on a forum, then it should be as gentlemen - on both sides. Otherwise, take it to e-mail.
Information? You call it philosophical (ignoring all the rest of the post); I call it clinical.
A lot of folks come and go on this forum and other social media. Some stay for longer than a cup of coffee. Some non-railroaders chose to leave because of very juvenile personal attacks by railroaders and/or their supporters. Some had thin skins; some simply had had enough and weren't into masochism.
Part of the problem is and has always been that railroaders seem to think the Trains forum decreed that they have a "special" place. Nowhere does it say that.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
My observation - I believe the 'bedrock' posters that have moved on got tired of the moderation that was trying to control things to being acceptable to being shown on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood or Romper Room with Miss Nancy.
Railroading is a adult subject area whose economics and operations are contentious and entwined with politics at all levels.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
gardendance Murphy Siding Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland? How close to the dock? Is the middle of Lake Erie ok? If so, since I think that's right on the US-Canada border, where would they bury the survivor?
Murphy Siding Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland?
Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland?
How close to the dock? Is the middle of Lake Erie ok? If so, since I think that's right on the US-Canada border, where would they bury the survivor?
schlimm I wonder how many real railroaders have left because they got upset? I have been here almost eight years and it seems likely a fairly small number. Also, if someone works in one aspect of a railroad, it hardly follows that they are much more expert on another aspect than an outsider. Is a flight attendant an expert on flying a plane? Is a rail accountant an expert on engine maintenance? Is a locomotive engineer an expert on grade crossing designs?
I wonder how many real railroaders have left because they got upset? I have been here almost eight years and it seems likely a fairly small number.
Also, if someone works in one aspect of a railroad, it hardly follows that they are much more expert on another aspect than an outsider. Is a flight attendant an expert on flying a plane? Is a rail accountant an expert on engine maintenance? Is a locomotive engineer an expert on grade crossing designs?
Of course working in one aspect of a railroad does not make one a universal expert. And more than a few railroaders only know about their little part of it; they are only there for the paycheque. And they most certainly won't be found on a railfan forum.
The professional railroaders here care about the industry, and while not necessarily expert, have some knowledge of what other aspects entail. The train crew may not know everything about track but interactions with track maintenance forces provide ample opportunity to learn some of the basic issues. In general the professionals here know where their expertise lies and limit postings to those topics.
To use your example of a flight attendant, while she may not know how to fly an airplane I think you would be surprised at how much more she knows than the average passenger. She remains part of the crew when things go wrong, which is when the best opportunities for broader learning occur.
The only "universal experts" I see on this forum are those who know very little. The professionals remain, partly to continue to learn about details outside their own experience, and also to try to correct the misinformation that some preach.
Many years ago, during my officer candidate training in the lower mainland of British Columbia where the Canadian Forces Officer Candidate School was situated, I finally had to put my foot down one evening. I called the rest of my cohort to a meeting after supper and gently chided them about their difficulty with marching in step (part of our training at that initial level of recruitment was seeing if we could be team members and actually perform drill movements on a parade square in concert).
I explained to them that I found it very easy to find the cadence and to remain in step, but that the rest of them were abysmal at it. In fact, they were all marching in precisely the wrong step! It was amazing that they could all do it incorrectly.
Due to my intervention, we eventually got it and were all in step. Took a while, though.
Mookie Ulrich I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong? Ulrich - I am smiling at your post. Obviously if that many people are telling you that, maybe you should check it out? I admire people who can remain calm, even in a furious dust-up. But that still doesn't mean they are right. Or maybe even wrong.
Ulrich I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong?
I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong?
Ulrich - I am smiling at your post. Obviously if that many people are telling you that, maybe you should check it out? I admire people who can remain calm, even in a furious dust-up. But that still doesn't mean they are right. Or maybe even wrong.
Absolutely. And at the end of the day I'm proven wrong alot of the time as well, but I'm ok with that. There's no shame in being wrong. Fortunately for me, Ive been right most of the time on the Big Picture stuff (like who I married and my career choices) but even there I'm not offended by other points of view. Certainly on the business side I depend on people to tell me when I'm wrong or even completely out to lunch. I'm not an accountant, banker, or lawyer, so I'm counting on those people to correct me at every opportunity. And then there's the small stuff.. I make a quick cost/benefit calculation before standing on principle. More often than not its not a battle worth fighting as even a clear win offers no benefit to me.
schlimmIn most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds.
Euclid: I don't think anyone has the right to berate anyone else in most circumstances and especially not on a forum.
But I would accept what most working railroad people say, until someone that also works in the industry can prove them wrong, than I would from someone that "read it in a book" or article. A good discussion between the two would be great reading. Questions are good. Restating a thought when there is an answer more than twice, not so good.
No one is the pure source of anything. I won't dispute that. But a plumber (ie) knows a lot more about my sink drain than I do - it is his job, it is what he was trained to do and I get the feeling the railroads don't let screw-ups work very long in their position.
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