As the son of a navigator who served with the 306th Bomb Group, I am grateful to see the favorable words for the B-17. But Dad would also remind us that war is hell, even at 30,000 feet. Also remember that they flew in an unpressurized, poorly heated and cramped aircraft. Crew members wore oxygen masks to stay alive and wore heated flying suits (think form-fitting electric blanket) to keep from freezing, not always successfully. Then they had to deal with a bunch of other guys at the same altitude who were trying to kill them.
We should appreciate and honor what Dad and his fellow crewmen did but we should not glorify it.
Two of them at Port Clinton and one still flies, but not regularly.
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2014/07/port_clintons_liberty_aviation.html
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
My favorite B-17 memory came upon me by surprise -
I was traveling with my folks on summer vacation touring the northwestern United States. Mom, Dad and I were catching some of the great American railroads, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific.
In Montana near Little Big Horn River in 1967 there was a large forest fire sparked by a thunderstorm lightening strike. The event of course made newspapers and could be seen by the smoke plume in the distance as we traveled.
Unexpectedly, as we passed some local airport - I was privileged to suddenly see going down the road right along side of us - a silver plane taking off down a runway, banking and climbing - almost over the road we traveled - four engines - silver spinning props just a hundred yards or so away from dad's speeding 1966 Chrysler New Yorker.
I was caught aback, there were no gun turrets like the model planes I built - and I suddenly realized this was a B-17 bomber - a real B-17 bomber!
Struck by the moment I was surprised how much smaller it was than I had envisioned - and so much more agile - and fast - and it soared with a grace un-equaled. Wow! and in civilian service!
Since that time I have recollected my prividged moment as -
A B-17 in service contemporary to the lives of the men who flew them in combat!
A B-17 fighting forest fires - in a useful commercial service not a historic one!
A B-17 famous - but in peacetime an acronym of pain for what men everywhere were trying to forget!
A B-17 never to be forgotten - flown seriously as a modern plane with mission - by those who knew exactly how to fly them!
Doc
tomikawaTTWatching them and hearing them is one thing. Actually working on them was another, quite different. Try changing #13 cylinder on the #1 R-1830 of a C-47 in a Korean snowstorm if you want to find a whole new definition of fun...
For those who want the flavor of the experience, here is a guide for you.
Years back I read a wonderful story about that Island Airways Ford Tri-Motor.
A little boy was going for a ride on the plane with his father, and as the engines fired up the boy's face lit up like his dad had never seen before.
You see, the boy was deaf, and the noise of the engines was the first thing he'd ever heard. Yep, apparantly they were THAT loud!
Anyone know if that "Tin Goose" is still around?
Maybe not a war bird, but how i liked to fly in or watch an island airways ford tri motor rumble her way west to put n bay. Quite a sight and experience to have and remember.
Does flying over railroads qualify?
Entering service in 1976, F-15s will remain in production through 2019 (for foreign nations). The USAF still has 178 F-15C/Ds and 224 "Deep Strike" F-15Es in service.
Watching them and hearing them is one thing. Actually working on them was another, quite different. Try changing #13 cylinder on the #1 R-1830 of a C-47 in a Korean snowstorm if you want to find a whole new definition of fun...
Over my 26 year career I got hands in the machinery experience with a lot of airframes, most of them powered by reciprocating engines. Later, I was in the business of readying a base for the first F-15s to be deployed outside CONUS. The first one arrived and I went over to the nose dock to look at it - drip pan under the open engine bay access, telltale seeps at rivets and one landing gear actuator showing a telltale moist smear.
I went back to the office and the project officer (a supply type who thought the F-15 was the greatest thing since the steam engine) asked, "Well, Sarge, whaddya think?"
My answer? "A flying fuel, oil and hydraulic leak, just like all the other aircraft I've worked on."
Much later, I was a statistician in a Titan outfit that had somehow acquired a B-17 as a non-flying squadron mascot. I was asked why I didn't volunteer to work on restoring the old hulk, since I had experience with similar aircraft. Answer - "It's one thing to get filthy working on a plane that will be flying missions and accruing hours. Working on something that will never move again except at the end of a towbar isn't worth my time. I have a model railroad that satisfies my need for a hobby."
That Titan outfit stood down not long after I retired. The B-17 is under cover at the Pima Air Museum. The latest iteration of the model railroad is going strong.
Chuck, MSgt(ret) USAF
To digress occasionally is not a bad thing. I'm not sure it's accurate, but I've heard that there's more to life than trains....
Heard some radials nearby one day and got outside in time to see a PBY that had apparently landed or done a touch-and-go on a small lake nearby. It was flying out the the local airport for a while.
One neat thing about going to air shows is seeing (and hearing) those old warbirds flying.
Had a chance to take a self-guided tour of a B-17 at an air show a few years ago (the show wasn't open yet and I was there as staff). For as big as they look on the silver screen, they were tiny. I had a heck of a time getting my 6'5" frame into the nose. The tail gunner's position and the ball turret were out of the question...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
M636C Forty three years ago I was still in bed on a Sunday morning when a Catalina flew over. The sound of the twin radial engines was distinctive and I saw it fly over without leaving my bed. I was dressed in record time and made it to the local airport before it had taxied in and shut down. It was being used for mineral exploration. I was working as a railway mechanical engineer at the time..... M636C
Forty three years ago I was still in bed on a Sunday morning when a Catalina flew over. The sound of the twin radial engines was distinctive and I saw it fly over without leaving my bed.
I was dressed in record time and made it to the local airport before it had taxied in and shut down.
It was being used for mineral exploration.
I was working as a railway mechanical engineer at the time.....
M636C
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Norm48327 And this thread is railroad related?
And this thread is railroad related?
As I recall, several past threads have evolved into spirited discussions on warplanes or ships. I figured that 54 just decided to take a shortcut.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
ouibejamnOriginally this thread was going to be titled "Let's piss off the old man", but cooler heads prevailed.
Typical reply from an immature twelve year old.
Norm
54light15 You know what else is impressive? The Canadian Warbirds Museums Avro Lancaster that just now flew over my house. 4 Packard-built Merlins makes for some mighty fine music!
You know what else is impressive? The Canadian Warbirds Museums Avro Lancaster that just now flew over my house. 4 Packard-built Merlins makes for some mighty fine music!
In a crossover move; Rail Exec. picked to head United Airlines
Oscar Munoz, chief operations officer and president of CSX Corp. (NYSE: CSX) has been tapped as the new chief executive officer for United Airlines (NYSE: UAL).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Norm48327And this thread is railroad related?
Originally this thread was going to be titled "Let's piss off the old man", but cooler heads prevailed.
Yes, it is still a trains thread. If it wasn't for trains North American Aviation in Columbus Ohio would be hard pressed for parts to build their planes.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
Ever hear a rotary-engine powered world War One fighter? It's been years, but I rmember seeing several at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rhinebeck, NY. A Fokker Triplane, a Sopwith Camel and Pup, and an AVRO 504K. Sounds like nothing you've ever heard before, like a beserk cross between a power mower and a chainsaw.
You know, when I was a boy at the time of the 50th Anniversary years of World War One, the men that flew them were my heroes. Nothing I've seen or read since that time has caused me to change my opinion.
What's this got to do with trains? Welllll, the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome DID have a Baldwin Trench Locomotive on static display at the time!
A few weekends back, while waiting for a signal at E. Missouri Valley, a B-17 flew over us. It appeared to be heading for the Omaha airport. I was hoping it might circle around so I could get another look, but no such luck.
Jeff
I remember back in the 50's on the prairies as a kid, watching 21 Lancasters fly over us at 1000 feet all within visual contact to each other, they were heading to Alberta to be scrapped, a few were saved one is still in Claresholm, Alberta. That is a sound that can never be forgotten, the ground was shaking.
54light15, those Rolls- Merlin engines in the Mustang sure do whistle a pretty tune. Once you hear the tune it is never forgotten.
Cannonball
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