I brought this Thread back, as it seemed the appropriate venue to announce to those here who also have an interest in Historic Warbirds.
The FB website for our local warbird, The B-29 "Doc" has made an announcement for a partial schedule for the 2018 coming year:
Doc’s Friends has announced the partial 2018 tour schedule for B-29 Doc. The 2018 tour season will include a return trip to EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, WI, along with two tour stops in Kansas.
Additional tour stops will be announced in the coming weeks as negotiations with air shows are finalized.
'The Friends of Doc' FB Website is @ https://www.facebook.com/DocsFriends/
CSSHEGEWISCH It sounds plausible. The Boeing Model 40's also had rather cramped provision for the occasional passenger so that could have provided a starting point for any of a number of passenger operations.
It sounds plausible. The Boeing Model 40's also had rather cramped provision for the occasional passenger so that could have provided a starting point for any of a number of passenger operations.
Restored Boeing 40C in flight. Enclosed for 4 passengers + pilot.
http://sf260w.com/Boeing/Boeing.html
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
http://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/delta-history/timeline/decades/1920
http://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/delta-history/aircraft-by-type/crop-duster/huff-daland-duster
Excerpt from Watertown Daily Times
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/blogs/ogdensburg-powerboat-expertise-takes-to-the-air-20150310&
The Huff-Daland Company was founded in 1920 by Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduates Thomas Huff and Elliot Daland who knew boat builders’ skills translated especially well to the construction of hydro-airplanes, aka flying boats.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7mis6ulFkfUC&pg=PA9&dq=%22powder+before+passengers%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFvKzBr-3UAhUEVz4KHZLNBqEQ6AEIIjAA#v=onepage&q=%22powder%20before%20passengers%22&f=true
To add a bit to Norm 48327's thoughts: Had it not been for Boll Weevils in the South in the 1920's there might not have been a Delta Air lines. Using Huff-Daland Crop Dusting aircraft ( Started as the Huff-Daland Crop Dusters), it moved to Monroe La. in 1925 and in 1928 was bought by C.E. Woolman and remaned Delta Air Service. "...The story was that agricultural spraying was the mane job, but in the ';off seasons' they were known to transport single passengers. The fron cockpit was where the 'dust' was carried, and i assume the poassenger could be accomodated(?)..." (?) This was related to me by a cousin who had 35 years with Delta.
My father was born in Towanda, Pennsylvania in 1926. He told me about several airmail planes crashing nearby. Boeing Model 40s as I recall him saying. To get back to trains, his entire school went to the station to see the Pioneer Zephyr that was on a nationwide tour after it's dawn to dusk run in 1934. To get back to aircraft, that Triplane video was awesome!
But, this might be of interest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w
Anyone who is into history and has a liking for old warbirds would do well to visit the Wright Patterson musem in Dayton and the Smithsonian Institute. Lots to see at both of them and the Udvar Hazy is also on the list of best aviation museums. I've been to UDVAr Hazy and Dayton yhe back-shops where they were restoring a B-1 were of substantil interest to onw who has spent many hours repairing damaged aircraft. It was impressive to say the least.
I have not been to the Smithsonian, but the other two were indeed impressive.
There are also a lot of other aviation museums around the country. Some focus on military planes and others are geared to general aviation as it evolved from the days of the Wright Brothers and the airmail routes those pilots followed. Prior to the advent of navigation aids pilots flew from markers on the ground, ie; arrows showing the direction to fly. Airmail postage was justifibly costly then due to the lack of aids pilots of today take for granted. Flying mail back then was a risky, but hopefully well paid occupation in the thirties and forties.
Today, we take for granted that we will receive our mail on time. That didn't hold true when I was young. The airplanes of the forties had no better technolocy than the automotive components they were provided with by their manufgacturers. Think of generator supplied electrical systems. By today's standards they were archaic and primitive. They regularly failed in flight leaving combat pilots to their own resources and their ability to fly by visual rules, and engage the enemy according to their instincts.
One does not have to be an academic to research the information. Your favorite search engine will provide much information.
Norm
Here's another place that must be visited. I was in the U.K. recently and visited the famous Brooklands race track and aerodrome. The race track is not in use but is slowly being restored and there's an air museum there with a Wellington Wimpy bomber that is undergoing restoration. There is a lot of equipment and exhibits for the famous Dam Buster bombs and lots of stuff about Barnes Wallis, it's inventor. Brooklands is well worth visiting.
I was there for an exhibit of old buses as my friend Ian over there is into them. I'm not a bus guy but these were fascinating! Some were lovingly restored to perfection and some were still in service. One of the most unusual ones was a typical North American "Bluebird" yellow school bus. I never expected to see one of those but there it was.
Firelock76 Danke schoen, Herr Schlimm! Three years of German in high school and I'm lucky if I can pronounce Volkswagen correctly. Owned one too, a '73 Bug. I'll tell you, when I found that video my jaw hit the floor. There probably hasn't been anything seen like that since 1918. Those boys in New Zealand are to be congratulated!
Danke schoen, Herr Schlimm! Three years of German in high school and I'm lucky if I can pronounce Volkswagen correctly. Owned one too, a '73 Bug.
I'll tell you, when I found that video my jaw hit the floor. There probably hasn't been anything seen like that since 1918. Those boys in New Zealand are to be congratulated!
That NZ group is fantastic.
Thanks! If you were in the rearward facing seat, you probably would not be paying attention or looking out for very long!
[It's "Passen Sie auf, meine Herren!"]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iJpzsbsD2M
Vintage aircraft? Click on that link und passen sie auf, meine herren!
And imagine yourself in the back-seat of a British RE-8 or DH-4 and seeing THAT coming at you.
As a side note to those who are interested: The EAA Anual event at Oshkosh,Wi. Will feature a series of fly-bys of various bomber types this year.
Here is the posted schedule as well:
Bomber Schedule
Monday(07/24) – B-1, B-25s
Tuesday(07/25) - B-25s, B-29s
Wednesday(07/26) – B-25s, B-1 as part of the 75th anniversary reenactment of the Doolittle Raid
Friday(07/28) – B-29s as part of B-29 75th anniversary celebration
Saturday(07/29) – B-1, B-2, B-52, B-29s, B-17s, B-25s, A-20 as part of 8th Air Force 75th anniversary celebration
The two B-29's are the only two of their type still flying (FIFI, and DOC) there were 3,970 built by Boeing.
[quote user="Jay Emerson"]Hello Bob, My Name is Jay Emerson from Seatte. My wife's father flew with your father on Shy-Chi Baby in WW2. 2nd Lt. Robert W Anderson, Pilot, Kay's Crew 113. I've been doing internet research and your blog came up. Robert died when my wife was 18. He had no pictures or items from the war. Last weekend we toured a B24 in Seattle. We will go for a ride next year when it comes back. My wife never knew her dad was a war hero. She has been moved to tears by reading all the information I have found on him and his service in WW2. Jay
Jay, Hope the first mission info I sent helps out. In time I'll dig through my research on the 380th and send a list of all the missions they were on and the planes they flew. I've developed a very large data base on the 380th in 1945 for Feb1, 1945 to end of war. I'll stay in contact.
Bob
PS; By war end they ranked I think #2 in the 531st on misson points and #7 in all of the 380th B/G.
M636C The Navy aircraft was probably a Lockheed Neptune, a P2V-5 or earlier. The last of these (P2V-7) lasted to be reclassified P-2H in the unified classification of the 1960s. These preceded the P-3 Orion which is only now giving way to the P-8 based on the 737. The Neptune had Turbo-Compound engines and had a very long range. One made a record flight (possibly from Africa to the USA) without refuelling.
The Navy aircraft was probably a Lockheed Neptune, a P2V-5 or earlier. The last of these (P2V-7) lasted to be reclassified P-2H in the unified classification of the 1960s. These preceded the P-3 Orion which is only now giving way to the P-8 based on the 737. The Neptune had Turbo-Compound engines and had a very long range. One made a record flight (possibly from Africa to the USA) without refuelling.
The Neptune in question was a P2V-1, "Truculent Turtle" that flew from Perth, WA to Columbus, Ohio non-stop in September 1946. This took place before the turbo-compounds were developed.
M636CI'm reminded of a comment by the pilot of an Avro Lancaster that had four of the Rolls Royce Merlin engines (the P-51D had a Packard built Merlin
On the warbird theme:
F-89s vs a Hellcat drone
DeggestyQuoting Balt: "ordinance exploding on the ground" A law exploding? Sorry, Balt, I couldn't resist this. I know you meant "ordnance."
A law exploding? Sorry, Balt, I couldn't resist this. I know you meant "ordnance."
For all we know of internal Iraq at that time - the laws could have been exploding.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Quoting Balt: "ordinance exploding on the ground"
Johnny
BackshopBack about 20 years ago, I was on my drive home from work when I heard a lot of radial engines. I was only about 2 miles from CSX's Rougemere Yard in Dearborn, Mi (added to keep Norm happy) and I looked up and saw a B17, B24, B25, B29 and Super Connie flying in formation. They were all in town for the annual Willow Run Memorial Day airshow. Those 18 radials sounded great and got me wondering how a 1000 plane bombing raid would sound...
My condo in Jacksonville is a couple of miles from the end of the main E-W runway at NAS Jacksonville. Blue Angels put on their show there every other year (alternating with NAS Mayport - on the other side of town). Working 3rd trick I slept days.
6 FA 18's in formation about 5 or 600 feet off the deck flying over your bedroom is one hell of a wake up alarm - especially that 1st time when I didn't know it was going to happen. This was a short time after Desert Storm. I can only imagine what Baghad must have sounded like fighters and bombers overhead, ordinance exploding on the ground and AA firing at anything and everything real or imagined.
DeggestyI had not heard anything at all about the rotary engines until they were mentioned on this thread.
If I hadn't seen them in movies/videos, I'd probably have trouble believing such a thing existed. Seems like an awkward way to achieve the goal (spinning the prop).
Speaking of a PBY, I was in the back yard one day when I heard what sounded like a nearby airplane, but couldn't see it. Shortly thereafter a PBY, still dripping from it's "touch and go" on a nearby small lake appeared over a hill. Quite the sound...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Back about 20 years ago, I was on my drive home from work when I heard a lot of radial engines. I was only about 2 miles from CSX's Rougemere Yard in Dearborn, Mi (added to keep Norm happy) and I looked up and saw a B17, B24, B25, B29 and Super Connie flying in formation. They were all in town for the annual Willow Run Memorial Day airshow. Those 18 radials sounded great and got me wondering how a 1000 plane bombing raid would sound...
[quote user="Shadow the Cats owner"]
My husbands grandfather was a ball turret gunner on a B-24 in WW2. He had his diary until he donated to the USAF museum in Ohio. Why because he always said those in the future need to be reminded of the fear that the men that climbed into the bombers faced everyday trying to come home for their familes and countries on both sides of the war. His grandfather made his tour of 30 missions in the ETO and came home. I can imagine the fear of his grandpa in what I would call a fish bowl under the plane with nothing under him but sky no parachute and only protected by glass and the little plate he sat on. Those men where the bravest of the brave that flew those planes.
Shadow,
My father was a bombardier in B-24s. Was in the 380th B/G in 1945 flying out of the Philippines. Flew some of the longest missions of WW2. When a B-24 landed at Bishop Airport in Flint, mi. I drove him over to it with the intent of getting him a ride. He refused to get out of the car, said, "I do not have any intention of ever getting anywhere near one of those, take me back to the office, I don't need to see one of these, I already know all I need to know". He flew 27 missions averaging 11 hours per mission, plus 3 staging flights of 13 hours each as well as flying "SHY CHI BABY" home, (hence my avatar). While waiting to take off watched a B-24 skim the ground and pull up just enough to miss everything but his #4 prop which sliced through the crashing planes wing setting it on fire, it crashed. A couple other close calls on missions and then lost his pilot 9/8/1945 on a prisoner transfer flight with another crew.
Sorry for the edits, the fingers can't keep up with the brain.
SALfan Just some miscellaneous stuff, in no particular order. At a small airshow at a tiny airport when I was about 10, a P-51 was in attendance. Couldn't see it when the pilot fired up the engine, but even an ignorant kid knew that sound came from something special and very powerful. In the 50 or so years since I've NEVER heard anything that sounds even close. Think of 2 or 3 unmuffled Harley Davidson's up close. Also while growing up, fire ants were moving into southeast GA and the state was trying to do something about it. They purchased at least one B-17 and a Navy recon plane (CV2?), a big twin-engine beast, and dropped fire ant bait over the area. One afternoon the CV2 (or whatever it was) made repeated trips over the farm dropping strips of ant bait. Sometime later the B-17 flew by going somewhere, we assumed to drop ant bait somewhere nearby. My father grabbed us boys up, we got in the car and chased it. Never did get a really good look at it, but we gave it the old college try. As an adult, was able to tour a DC-4 which had been coverted to serve as an air tanker for fighting forest fires. USDA-Forest Service had an air tanker base set up in Ft. Smith, AR to mix water with the compressed dry fire retardant, and the plane was sitting there on standby during a period of high fire danger. Wasn't much to see, but I did get to hear (but not see) it take off once. Quite the internal-combustion symphony.
Just some miscellaneous stuff, in no particular order.
At a small airshow at a tiny airport when I was about 10, a P-51 was in attendance. Couldn't see it when the pilot fired up the engine, but even an ignorant kid knew that sound came from something special and very powerful. In the 50 or so years since I've NEVER heard anything that sounds even close. Think of 2 or 3 unmuffled Harley Davidson's up close.
Also while growing up, fire ants were moving into southeast GA and the state was trying to do something about it. They purchased at least one B-17 and a Navy recon plane (CV2?), a big twin-engine beast, and dropped fire ant bait over the area. One afternoon the CV2 (or whatever it was) made repeated trips over the farm dropping strips of ant bait. Sometime later the B-17 flew by going somewhere, we assumed to drop ant bait somewhere nearby. My father grabbed us boys up, we got in the car and chased it. Never did get a really good look at it, but we gave it the old college try.
As an adult, was able to tour a DC-4 which had been coverted to serve as an air tanker for fighting forest fires. USDA-Forest Service had an air tanker base set up in Ft. Smith, AR to mix water with the compressed dry fire retardant, and the plane was sitting there on standby during a period of high fire danger. Wasn't much to see, but I did get to hear (but not see) it take off once. Quite the internal-combustion symphony.
He was adamant about it. Did not want to hear it. I told him how my father knew his stuff and nope, not interested. Mind was shut. He was a teacher, he knew and I didn't. Funny how I still resent that almost 50 years later but it's hard to forget a jerk.
No, your teacher was not necessarily a jerk; his education had been neglected--to the point that he had trouble accepting a boy's statement.
I had not heard anything at all about the rotary engines until they were mentioned on this thread.
Firelock, I did not know that about fat boy. It was an amazing thing to see, that D7. Regarding zeppelins, I was in the Deutsches Museum in Munich (you have to go if you've never been) in 1978 and they had a chunk of duralumin, it might have been a frame piece of the Graf Zeppelin. About 6 feet long, a truss type girder with four long lengths and triangular bits holding the four together like an old railroad bridge. I picked it up and I think it might have weighed about 1/2 a pound. Couldn't believe how light that was.
I was in eigth grade science class, learning about airplanes. The teacher mentioned all the types of piston engines and then I said, "What about rotary engines?" He did not accept that there was an engine that spun with the propellor. My old man told me all about them and the first time I was at Rhinebeck, I gently turned the prop of the Sopwith and, yep, the engine turned just like dad said. My teacher was a jerk.
54Light, it's amazing how fast those WW1 types get off the ground, the one's I mentioned earlier were all airborne in less than a football field's length, they were STOL before the term was even invented!
Interesting you saw the D-7 painted all white. The only German ace I'm aware of who flew an all-white D-7 was Hermann Goering, he called it "The White Stag."
I can't imagine why they'd try to replicate Goering's D-7 unless they were reflecting the heroic, hard charging fighter pilot he was long before he turned into the fat, rapacious Nazi SOB he became.
About 30 years ago there was an airshow at the Poughkeepsie airport. There was a PBY, a bunch of AT-6s and several P-51s. The real thrill was the Fokker D-7 from the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. It was painted white and it took off from the grass next to the runway because of it's tailskid. It was airborne in about 200 feet! Then the pilot pulled it straight up and it hung motionless on it's propellor. My father was a WW1 aircraft buff and he told me they could do that and I saw it with my own eyes. That was something!
By the way, I did meet Cole Palen one time to see if he wanted to sell the 3-wheel Matchless-powered Morgan that was in one of the hangers and he wasn't interested. There were a few interesting old cars there including a Packard moving van with an ornately painted body from about 1915. Most of the aircraft from the film "Those Magnificant Men in their Flying Machines" were there too.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.