Laughing while black

[tree68]

dakotafred

Women, white or black, with a wee drop taken can get very shrill. (OK, call me sexist instead of racist.) But this is the Wine Train, right? If you want to go to church, take the Church Train. (Or is there one of those?)

We've done some wedding trains, but those tend to morph from "church train" to "party train" pretty quickly.

Methinks part of the problem here is that some folks regard wine very seriously - something to be partaken of and enjoyed, in moderate amounts.  They know their reds from their whites, about clarity, bouquet, nose, etc.  For them, an event involving wine should be sedate - "this isn't a bar..."

And there are others who simply regard wine as a carrier for the alcohol within.  These folks don't care if it's Boone's Farm or some rare, vintage wine.  They just want the buzz.

From what I read (and as I noted before), it appears that the railroad recognizes this difference and placed the reading club in the wrong car/section.  

One might presume that there was no space left in the party section, and that the railroad personnel felt it necessary to get the group out of the sedate section, leaving no option but to put them off the train.

[SSW9389]

Women were drinking wine on a Wine Train?

[jimnorton]

Lets just face it.  Through the rose colored glasses of political correctness standards and truth have no meaning.  I wish, when I feel slighted, I could play the "bald card!"

[selector]

Hmmmm....dunno here.  I do find it very hard to swallow that no other sizeable groups of any description have been put off the train in recent memory, and that the police have not been involved to their recollection.  What would make this one group different from other loud, boisterous, happy, in-their-cups, celebratory, giddy, tight (socially), and energetic passenger groups?  Was it language, volume, accent, tone, coarseness,...?  Skin colour? 

I think Schlimm's reference suggests either a higly disingenous CEO reacting to potentially disastrous fb/twitter feedback/backlash or a very contrite one who frankly admits that his train crew screwed up royally.  I simply don't know because I wasn't there.  I find myself leaning on the side of the admission from the boss.  The buck has to stop there.

[schlimm]

dakotafred

Women, white or black, with a wee drop taken can get very shrill. (OK, call me sexist instead of racist.) But this is the Wine Train, right? If you want to go to church, take the Church Train. (Is there one of those?) 

 

I have to say, many (self included) aren't especially fond of being around loud, somewhat tipsy to lit up folks.  But if so, then riding on a booze train is a pretty dumb idea.  And even dumber to complain as though it is a surprise.

[dakotafred]

Women, white or black, with a wee drop taken can get very shrill. (OK, call me sexist instead of racist.) But this is the Wine Train, right? If you want to go to church, take the Church Train. (Or is there one of those?) 

[ouibejamn]

schlimm

I guess you know more about what happened than the NVWT CEO.

Hey now, if we were only allowed to comment on things we actually know something about, the internet would fall suddenly very quiet  ;)

[BaltACD]

Just like some parents getting upset that kids are making 'too much noise' at a playground.  It's what kids do!

A group of grownups sharing a good time amongst themselves make noise.  It's what they do!

 

[schlimm]

jimnorton

I have no doubt the staff made the right call here.  Loud and disturbing knows no color. 

 

 

Interesting that you are so sure of that.  I guess you know more about what happened than the NVWT CEO.  

 

CEO Tony Giaccio said unequivocally that his staff should not have kicked off the club's 11 female members on Saturday…

He also said the train company "made a bad situation worse" by initially posting a Facebook message that erroneously accused the book club members of giving train staff "verbal and physical abuse."

In fact, the company's Facebook post "was not reflective of what actually occurred," Giaccio said. "We quickly removed the inaccurate post, but the harm was done."

[wanswheel]

Lisa Renee Johnson sure knows how to get even. I think she’s beautiful.

[jimnorton]

I have no doubt the staff made the right call here.  Loud and disturbing knows no color. 

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from Napa Valley Register

After several miles of “chitchatting” among the club members, Johnson said, the train’s maître d’hotel told the group, “Your noise level is a little loud, and you have to tone it down so we don’t make others uncomfortable."

“We thought the purpose of the Wine Train was to have a good time and enjoy being with a large group. No one told us of any noise ordinance. If you get a group of 11 women talking and laughing, it’s going to be loud,” Johnson said.

Later, the maître d’hotel came by a second time, warning the women they would be ordered off the train if they didn’t quiet down, Johnson said.

“She said people were complaining and I said, ‘Who’s complaining?’ And she said, ‘Well, people’s faces are uncomfortable,'” said Johnson. “At that point, one passenger nearby said, 'Well, this is not a bar.' We reacted, 'Yes, it is a bar, a bar on wheels.'"

Lisa Renee Johnson: “Facebook Family, we have a problem!”

“We sipped wine, enjoyed each other's company but our trip is being cut short...this women said our laughter annoyed her because this is "not a bar"... We are a group of 12...if we all laugh at the same time it's loud! When we get to St. Helena they are putting us off the train.”

[rrnut282]

Slow news day?  sounds like a mis-understanding that escalated, afterall, alcohol was involved. 

Barring evidence to the contrary, chalk it up to a learing experience in customer service. 

[BaltACD]

tree68

This sounds like a "you had to be there" type of thing. 

What's offensive behavior to one is not to another.

Back in the early days of our wine/beer trains, we ran three in a row - one on Friday night, one late Saturday afternoon, and one Sunday afternoon.  The difference in the clientele was very noticable.

We only run those trains on Friday nights now, and it's definitely an end-of-the-week, blow-off-steam crowd.  The well-heeled would not be happy.

I recall seeing in one of the reports on this incident that the RR suggested they had placed the group in the wrong car - apparently they have cars for the more boisterous groups.  I can see why a "reading club" might be thought of as a rather sedate group when making such assignments ahead of the event.

Unless someone can step up and show a pattern of such behavior on the part of the RR (or certain RR personnel), I'm leaning toward this being a one-off event.

 

The group that delights in reading 'Wuthering Heights' is not the same group that delights in '50 Shades of Gray'.  Those groups will have 'fun' at different sound levels.

[schlimm]

Sounds like the expected reactions on here as well.   However to seek the truth look at wanswheel's post.  It included remarks by the NVWT CEO that confirm that the reactions of the train staff were excessive, contrary to the rail spokesman's comments.   

[tree68]

This sounds like a "you had to be there" type of thing. 

What's offensive behavior to one is not to another.

Back in the early days of our wine/beer trains, we ran three in a row - one on Friday night, one late Saturday afternoon, and one Sunday afternoon.  The difference in the clientele was very noticable.

We only run those trains on Friday nights now, and it's definitely an end-of-the-week, blow-off-steam crowd.  The well-heeled would not be happy.

I recall seeing in one of the reports on this incident that the RR suggested they had placed the group in the wrong car - apparently they have cars for the more boisterous groups.  I can see why a "reading club" might be thought of as a rather sedate group when making such assignments ahead of the event.

Unless someone can step up and show a pattern of such behavior on the part of the RR (or certain RR personnel), I'm leaning toward this being a one-off event.

[gardendance]

Paul3

Also, the St. Helena PD has publically stated that the railroad has never called them for help in escorting passengers off one of their trains before.

Not quite according to the most trusted source in news

Wine train spokesman Sam Singer...

On average, Singer said, individuals or groups are asked to get off the wine train once a month for various reasons.

Police spokeswoman Maria Gonzalez said it was the first time IN MEMORY that the wine train had sought assistance from the department escorting off a LARGE GROUP.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20150825_ap_ca23d5cebe5d417084a5f5ed3123534a.html#uIzSTPYLV5DevR2j.99

[gardendance]

Paul3

But, according to eyewitness reports, other folks were behaving in the same fashion yet they were not thrown off the train.

Convicted one, if we believe the eyewitness reports to which Paul refers, then whatever action the railroad took against this group that they didn't take against the other folks who were behaving in the same fashion, if those other folks were a different race, could be racially motivated.

I remember a conductor in a semi old fashioned business class, that is an Amcafe with 2-1 seating, not a REAL old fashioned business class-club car-parlor car heritage equipment with galley and 1-1 seating, telling me someone had complained because the conductor had allowed laughter.

[Convicted One]

So where exactly was the racially motivated action? Are they claiming that if the group had been predominantly white, that there would have been no objection to their excessive exhuberance? Or are they saying that a white group would have been reprimanded, but allowed to continue the journey?

 

And what proof, beyond their own racially motivated accusations, do they have that race was a factor?

 

I have white authority get all snooty with me all the time, and I'm not black. Some people are just power tripping control freaks, if they're not making some person's life miserable, they are unhappy. Why  so many blacks seem to think they should be immune to this just because of their skin color?  if we are truly all equal, then this priviliged victimology crud needs to go away right now!!

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from Contra Costa Times

In a written statement released Tuesday morning, CEO Tony Giaccio said unequivocally that his staff should not have kicked off the club's 11 female members on Saturday…

Giaccio has invited the book club members and their guests to return to the wine train, in which they could fill 50 seats "as my personal guests in a reserved car where you can enjoy yourselves as loudly as you desire."

He also said the train company "made a bad situation worse" by initially posting a Facebook message that erroneously accused the book club members of giving train staff "verbal and physical abuse."

In fact, the company's Facebook post "was not reflective of what actually occurred," Giaccio said. "We quickly removed the inaccurate post, but the harm was done."

As of Tuesday afternoon, an online petition demanding an apology from the wine train executive had garnered more than 14,200 signatures from people all over the world.

Giaccio said he had apologized to Johnson in a Monday evening phone call. He added that he will take her advice and will join the wine train staff in taking extra cultural diversity and sensitivity training in hopes of avoiding similar incidents.

[Paul3]

But, according to eyewitness reports, other folks were behaving in the same fashion yet they were not thrown off the train.  Why is that?  This is not a black tie dinner train, it's tourist train serving wine and sold as a good time.

What I find interesting is that, according to reports, just one person complained about the book reading group.  A group that was not intoxicated and had not physically abused anyone (which was, the NVWT admits, a false accusation by the railroad; why'd they post that?).  So to satisfy that one person, 11 others were marched off the train through six occupied cars into the apparent arms of the police (they were not arrested nor charged with any crime).  Also, the St. Helena PD has publically stated that the railroad has never called them for help in escorting passengers off one of their trains before.  Why now?

Perhaps the NVWT should have a quiet car where somber stick-in-the-mud folks can drink their wine in absolute silence.  But no slurping noises or out you go!

Paul A. Cutler III

[csxns]

tree68

group lacked the civility to respect their fellow passengers

Thank you.

[tree68]

If the group was so loud that they had to be asked to tone it down, they were too loud.  I don't think Napa Valley markets the train as a party train.

That the group lacked the civility to respect their fellow passengers reflects badly on them.  

Once again, the perpetrator becomes the "victim."

[schlimm]

Initially the Wine Train put out quite a different message on FB, later removed it.  Bad PR led to their apology.

"Soon after the incident, the wine train posted a statement on Facebook asserting that the women had become unruly once the conflict escalated.“Following verbal and physical abuse toward other guests and staff, it was necessary to get our police involved,” the statement said. “Many groups come on board and celebrate. When those celebrations impact our guests, we do intervene.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-black-women-kicked-off-napa-wine-train-20150824-htmlstory.html

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from Napa Valley Register

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/wine-train-ceo-apologizes-to-women-booted-from-train/article_8b8a4f56-c4d9-5e49-a27d-1e2e6a6151aa.html

The apology was released as the news spotlight has increasingly shone on the Wine Train. After the Register and other media outlets reported on the dispute Sunday afternoon, readers shared the story extensively – often using the hashtag #laughingwhileblack – and many viewers attacked the women’s removal as racially motivated.