About 16 years ago, I took the Maple Leaf from NY to Toronto. At Niagra Falls, the train stopped and the train was searched, we were asked to move one car back while a sniffer dog went through the car including the overhead baggage racks. After we crossed the border, canadian customs came through and asked for our ID. There were no problems, and we departed for Toronto. As we rolled across Ontario, I got into a conversation with the crew and asked why as we were leaving the US did we get such an intensive search by the US. I was told that Canadian customs had found drugs on an earlier train and the US officials felt like they had been shown up and were not going to let that happen again.
Usually the customs posts are within sight of each other. You can bet that for every Canadian that is put through the ringer an equal amount of Americans are also put through and vice versa. They are watching each other. I've seen this at more than one border crossing.
[quote user="tree68"]
I would opine that in some areas/agencies, law enforcement is less law enforcement than it is a revenue source.
We've all heard of ticket quotas and how some municipalities rely on the income from traffic tickets for a part of their income. The folks who seize cash, vehicles, etc, often use the income from those seizures to buy the bells and whistles of their business.
And that right there is the problem. Take away that "benefit" and I'd imagine that such seizures would drop to near zero.
[/quote]
Larry(tree68):
There are any number of localities where 'Enfrocement activities" can be spotted on passing major highway routes (many Interstate junctioning areas). Officers just sitting in parked units 'monitoring' the passing parade of vehicles (usually they are 'profiling' the traffic on what have become 'known drug corridors'...Maybe it is the law enforcements 'successes' that have identified these routes as 'known drug corridors(?).
Memphis,Tenn has been one of those areas for a number of years, as well as Georgia in any number of rural locations. The 'success rate' is cataloged in local media, particularly when a notable 'bust' takes place. Large sums of money 'found'(confiscated) will be noted to fund local department needs in the continued "War on Drugs". The confiscated drugs (?) Who knows?
As long as the stream of Cash and Vehicles can be converted into ways to be used in the 'War on Drugs'; these activities will apparently continue to be a fact of daily life(?).
On a lighter note:
I've noticed, on this thread and others, how the advent of a certain restorative drug has changed the way many of us spell 'Niagara.'
Sam,
The last time I checked, the Fourth Amendment was still in effect.
Norm
Whoops, My error, Should have typed Niagara. Dropped an a there. I forgot that Canadians like to say "a".
Norm48327The last time I checked, the Fourth Amendment was still in effect.
Sure it is, in print anyway.
In practice the way it usually plays out usually follows one of two paths.
1) if the unmerited search yields no worthwile discovery, you are allowed to continue on your way and have a hard time proving your experience materially "harmed" you.
2) If they discover a prosecutable violation, you are cast into the posiion of "criminal" trying to explain that you are the victim of a bum rap. Not much sympathy for criminals these days. Even if the crime you are connected with ends up being something entirely different than what the investigation was originally seeking.
Norm48327 Sam, The last time I checked, the Fourth Amendment was still in effect.
Norm: You are absolutey correct!
Maybe it is just my take on the current 'situation', but it seems that our current 'Administration(s?) seem to have been able to load it into wheelbarrows and they roll it around to where ever theyseem to want to use it; dump it out, using their 'interpretations' of what they think it now means. Since as a country we are not teaching American Government ( Social Studies?), and the History that is being 'taught' seems to be loosing a lot in the translation; between what History is being taught and the "History" taught to previous generations......
Wayne:(Firelock 76)
Equally, I also have a respect for Federal Law Enforcement Officers. Many of them are efficient, hardworking, and deserve the respect their offices and commitment deserve.
Personally, I would lay much of the 'problems' with "Government". It has grown much beyond what it was intended by the Founding Father's. I may be missinformed, but I think that government service was to be a priviledge and duty for citizens to participate in; and then return to their normal lives and functions, after a period of 'Service'. It seems that it functions now as a vehicle to get those Government Employees to survive twenty years and retire to a pension after completion of their employment.
My perception is sort of showcased in the VA. The government promises all who enter the uniformed services; a 'social contract' that if injued in that service, the individual will be cared for and made as 'whole' as possible; to live as useful life as they are able. The VA does a reasonable job of fulfilling that'social contract' with Vets who need those services. Except, in my opinion, The Bureaucrats seem to adopt a megalomaniacial view of their duty...The Veterans become the means by which the Bureaucracy grows itself by strength of its employment numbers...thus requiring more money for itself....shorting the pool of funds needed to provide for the veteran's medical needs. But that is just 'my take' on it.
Sam, are you a veteran? The VA has certain problems, going beyond or outside what you are complaining about. Rather than my teling you about them, find yourself a veteran who had a dissability caused by combat. He or she may have had good service, but surely knows someone close who has had problems with the VA. Orhe or she may have had some.
I get the American Legion Magazine regularly and keep up with this sort of thing. And there are many dedicated people in the VA who are truly devoted to helping ex-service people with medical problems.
And the magazine has other items of great interest to me.
Dave:
Please check your PM's !
["...And there are many dedicated people in the VA who are truly devoted to helping ex-service people with medical problems..."]
Dave, We certainly agree on that!
samfp 1943: I found your comments about American government and American history interesting. I can assure you that American government is most definitely still taught in our schools, usually in a far more interesting way than many of us studied it. Although government is frequently a one-semester course it is increasingly being coupled to a one-semester macro economics course. As far as American history goes, it's still being taught, too. Nowadays, however, people want their version of US history to be taught, and you'd be surprised at how many interpretations of US history there are.
Although I was technically a social studies teacher for 37 years I always taught history and sometimes government, so I know whereof I speak. The quality of the teaching has improved, too. Remember the old joke: What's the first name of every social studies teacher? Coach! And don't forget to turn on the projector (or video machine these days).
By the way, what would you teach your students about Amtrak? The building of the railroads (are you going to include the slave labor that built so many in the South)? The Jim Crow railroad laws? The mangling and deaths of countless immigrants because their lives were cheaper than air brakes and other safety features? The issues in the 1877 strike and the Pullman strike? Or will we stick to safe topics like the transcontinental railroad and the land grant system?
See? Even railfans can't agree on what should be taught about our interest-area. Now imagine trying to teach this nation's history in a way that satisfies everyone and offends no one.
I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE POST. I THINK SAM, ALSO A VETERAN, WOULD AGREE ALSO. IT IS A TOUGH JOB BEING A FAIR AND HONEST PERSON IN DEMOCRACY, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY AND ONE OF THE PRICES OF FREEDOM.
This topic is sure starting to go "off the rails", but it seems to be somewhat pertinent to the line of the Thread's context.
NKP guy:
I would not argue with with you about your teaching and experiences in that field and areas of your espertise. Particularly, in your longevity of teaching the mentioned subjects ! That kind of tenaciousness certainly deserves a high respect.
My exposures to subjects being taught currently, are based on experiences with my own kids in schools, and more recently with my grand kids; mot to mention the teachers who are friends and family members. I cannot count my own education experiences which were in parochial schools.
All the areas you mentioned, have their own levels of historical interest, and as such deserve mention within their social context. A wide exposure to events which helped to shape the American society deserve some study and mention.
My limited experiences seem to indicate that educators and academics have 'stratified' the historical record to the extent that a lot of the 'history' being taught these days; while schools and teachers pick and choose the elements of the areas of history to be taught. Some students can miss the elements of the earlier periods ( pre-history, ancient, middle ages,etc.) The late modern period, will start with either WWI, with the end of WWII or the times between that time frame and the Korean War; sometimes referred to as a ;Conflict, Police Action, or even a 'civil war(?)... Just ask the Veterans who fought there: they sometimes refer to it with the adjective of 'forgotten' War(?).
ROGER ADAYUnfortunately there is no consensus on "an unreasonable search or seizure". It's up to the courts to decide in the long run. Everything has changed post-911.
I would also opine that there used to be a certain "honor among thieves" that doesn't exist any more.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Several here have responded with commentary that falls loosely along the lines of "if you're not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about"
While that may very well be true, I believe that there is a much bigger issue at play here. The bill of rights protections were incorporated by our founding fathers because they recognized the perils that absolute power poses to any free society.
Allowing the authorities to overstep their bounds, even when under the auspices of extending "protection", is still a "power grab" no matter how you dress it up.
In a free society, power should ultimately rest with the people. Not with a privileged few claiming they must do what they do because it is the "good fight" they are fighting. If the people continue to relinquish power, step by step it eventually will lead to tyranny.
Convicted One Several here have responded with commentary that falls loosely along the lines of "if you're not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about" While that may very well be true, I believe that there is a much bigger issue at play here. The bill of rights protections were incorporated by our founding fathers because they recognized the perils that absolute power poses to any free society. Allowing the authorities to overstep their bounds, even when under the auspices of extending "protection", is still a "power grab" no matter how you dress it up. In a free society, power should ultimately rest with the people. Not with a privileged few claiming they must do what they do because it is the "good fight" they are fighting. If the people continue to relinquish power, step by step it eventually will lead to tyranny.
I'm in complete agreement with you on that.
23 17 46 11
edblysardThe concept that the government knows better how to manage our lives and livelihood better that we know how to do so for ourselves is one of the most frightening concepts there is.
But to play devil's advocate: the government is us. It's not some mystical majestic force from antoher dimension. It's made of people. And god knows there are enough regular people that can't be trusted to manage anything.
Somewhere there's a balance.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
[quote user="zugmann"]
But to play devil's advocate: the government is us.
[quote]
WAS us. Now it's professional politicians.
To quote Pogo (Walt Kelly): April 22, 1970 (Earth Day):
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
[quote user="Norm48327"]
And they are elected by the members of the public that take the time to vote.
It's more complicated than that. Those who vote do so on the basis of information provided by the candidate and the news media, who might or might not give the voter an accurate view of the candidate, or his opposition, or the issues at hand. Excessive and unbalanced campaign spending throws the equation off, too. Often, two candidates have views that are so similar that the voter feels he has little real choice. Money favors the candiudate who favors money. Potential voters at the bottom of the income scale often believe that no candidate will be able, let alone willing, to do much to help them, so why bother voting?
It's way too complicated for glib answers.
Tom
Yes, Democracy seems a poor form of Government, until one realizes the others are worse.
"I've said it before, people! Democracy does not work!"
-Kent Brockman, famed newscaster
daveklepper Yes, Democracy seems a poor form of Government, until one realizes the others are worse.
It always amuses me that everyone complains about the government, but only about 20% even bother to vote. I think American Idol may have had a better participation rate.
We get the government we deserve. Period.
In the last few years... errr check that... last few decades, I have been voting for the least offensive candidates and having a hard time determining which are the least offensive.
As for "American Idiot"... ummm... I mean "Americal Idolatry"... dain'g... I mean that TV show that garners more attention than a pretzeldental debate... I wonder how many of yesteryear's stars would have even made it past the auditions to get onto the show... would Elvis have been on? How about Lawrence Welk?
Hmmmm... maybe we ought to have a TV show named "American Candidate" and get candidates for political office to come out on stage, give a speach and then get critiqued by some ne'er-do-well 'judges' and let the audience cheer and jeer and then wait through interminable advertisements for sexual dysfunction cures while people vote using their smartaleckphones.
phooey... this is all off topic, forget I posted it.
I'm all for it. Candidates run their campaigns on paid commercials and 3 30 minute debates that are moderated and scripted beyond all hope.
It would be nice to see a weekly hour-long TV show devoted to the candidates facing real questions and tests. Of course nobody would watch it, but it would be nice..
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