Just musing:
What would have happened if bankers had been required to wear a wire and a body camera prior to the 2008 debacle?
Tom
edblysard 35 MK1500D (PTRA)locomotives, several Class 1 locomotives on unit trains and a average of 15 three man crews per shift, 3 shifts per 24 hours, several extras. Superintendent has the ability to veiw the locomotive cameras in real time, or record them, plus something like six cameras in each of our yards, one in our lunch room. Employee privacy is not a concern to the PTRA management.
35 MK1500D (PTRA)locomotives, several Class 1 locomotives on unit trains and a average of 15 three man crews per shift, 3 shifts per 24 hours, several extras.
Superintendent has the ability to veiw the locomotive cameras in real time, or record them, plus something like six cameras in each of our yards, one in our lunch room.
Employee privacy is not a concern to the PTRA management.
Maybe, A mandate for body cameras on the various 'Brass Hats' and other bureaucrats would be a fair deployment of cameras in the workplace....
With the current national love affair with body cameras at the 'Political Levels' of affairs....Body cameras mandated fir politicians (of BOTH parties) would be a good thing... Play the films taken on a Television Show...Surely, it would provide lots of Drama, and Pathos, but would also kill their abiulity to have any plausable deniability! A situation for pols, who would jump up and down, asking "...Who are you going to believe?...Me ! or your lying ears, eyes, and knowledge of reality?.."
Norm48327 A standard CVR is capable of recording 4 channels of audio data for a period of 2 hours.
A standard CVR is capable of recording 4 channels of audio data for a period of 2 hours.
Well, at least the 2 and the 4 are both there...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Norm
MrLynnI think it's a given that "last moments" are likely to be captured—that's the point. But I don't see any need to keep a perpetual record; like aircraft cockpit voice recorders, the last half-hour or so should be plenty.
AFIK Cockpit Recorders record the last 24 hours (or something) and then write over. Maybe I am wrong, but that happens when you get your information from Tom Clancy
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
wanswheel Paul, your ten90solutions guy sounds kind of cranky. He’ll be Andy Rooney in 20 years.
THAT LONG??? He sounds like he's already there or he's trying to drum up business for a law firm.
Euclid What is the maximum possible speed at which the Amtrak train could have negotiated that curve without derailing? I assume that there is a known speed at which the train would have tipped over. I don't recall seeing that tip-over speed reported.
What is the maximum possible speed at which the Amtrak train could have negotiated that curve without derailing? I assume that there is a known speed at which the train would have tipped over. I don't recall seeing that tip-over speed reported.
Some of our away from home lodging facilities are equipped with cameras in the hall ways. (The Oak Tree Inns, primarily a railroad contractor but they do advertise and take the general public.) They don't have them in the crew lounge, but the one outside it does have a microphone. These cameras are accessible by both motel and railroad management.
I think it supplies the blooper reel for the Executive Christmas party.
Jeff
wanswheel Excerpt from Associated Press, June 2 An emotional Amtrak CEO pledged to lawmakers Tuesday that safety technology that could have prevented a deadly derailment last month in Philadelphia will be put into operation, while Democrats and Republicans exchanged barbs over whether Congress or the Obama administration is most to blame for railroads not installing the technology. "We are responsible for the incident and its consequences," Joseph Boardman told a House transportation committee hearing. His voice breaking, Boardman said equipping trains with positive train control, a technology that can prevent trains from derailing because of excessive speed, is the "single greatest contribution my generation of railroaders can make." http://www.c-span.org/video/?326321-1/hearing-amtrak-train-derailment [The C-Span video of today’s hearing is too long to sit and watch, but it’s listenable as ‘talk radio.’ Several others, NTSB chairman, Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers & Trainmen president, also testified.]
With all those cameras that Ed listed - and any such other "Big Brother" type system - I usually wonder:
Who the heck has the time to watch/ read/ listen to all of it ? And/ or, the money to pay for someone else to do it ?
The sheer volume of material will likely preclude close review in most cases, unless something really bad occurred, or there's a vendetta against the employee who's the star of the show.
- Paul North.
Just remember to turn away from the camera when you have to pick your nose.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
That's just awful! Glad I'm close to retirement. I used to love my job.
23 17 46 11
edblysard Ours are digital, both the two outward facing cameras and the inward “in cab” camera, they all download via a wireless transmitter to our “down town” office, where a lot of stuff secretly and not so secretly makes the rounds. Depending on how it is stored, digital can be a “forever” item.
How many engines & crews are operating?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
MrLynn I think it's a given that "last moments" are likely to be captured—that's the point. But I don't see any need to keep a perpetual record; like aircraft cockpit voice recorders, the last half-hour or so should be plenty. /Mr Lynn
The problem with the 'last half hour' on these systems is that they don't stop when the incident happens, like aircraft black boxes do when the plane goes down. With many incidents, it will take company and/or NTSB officials several hours to potentially a day or more to get in a position to download the data - operational and video from the data recorders on locomotives. In most incidents, the electrical power on the locomotive survives and continues powering the data recorders which continue to operate.
The current video recorders on my carriers locomotives have a 72 hour cycle time - then they begin to record over the older video.
wanswheel Excerpt from The Washington Post, June 2 http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/investigators-was-amtrak-engineer-using-cell-phone-when-train-crashed/2015/06/02/eaadd24e-0947-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html Dennis Pierce, president of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, first said the cameras were “un-American” and then clarified the union’s position after coming under fire from committee members. “There are privacy concerns about the storage of [camera] data,” he said. “Nobody wants to see their last moment on earth floating around on YouTube.”
It is looking that way. One of the new sites published a link to the NTSB preliminary. They, thus far, have found no mechanical anomilies or defects in the equipment.
BaltACD http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/06/02/ntsb-report-amtrak-crash-philadelphia/28348719/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/06/02/ntsb-report-amtrak-crash-philadelphia/28348719/
So far, the focus seems to be on factors and events related to human error.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Statistics can be misused (like anything) but they are an essential component in science and other aspects of modernity. Trouble is, most people do not understand them at all.
Figures don't lie but ...
Paul_D_North_Jr In the front pages of the current (July 2015 ) issue of Trains is a "Letter to the Editor" from an Amtrak PR guy attempting to rebut a recent Don Phillips column by claiming how Amtrak has improved its safety culture and statistics . . . (talk about "jinxing" the operation and/ or "famous last words . . . ). - Paul North.
In the front pages of the current (July 2015 ) issue of Trains is a "Letter to the Editor" from an Amtrak PR guy attempting to rebut a recent Don Phillips column by claiming how Amtrak has improved its safety culture and statistics . . . (talk about "jinxing" the operation and/ or "famous last words . . . ).
The same 'figures' can be stated to prove any point one wants to make - pro or con.
What we think of as the "frame" sure doesn't look bent to me. Realize though that we're talking about a monocoque body, and that it doesn't have what we traditionally think of as a frame. Same with the ASC-64 like the locomotive in question.
What I see in that picture is the sort of damage that in past generations of North American passenger power, like an F40PH or even something as recent as the F59PH (North Carolina has one that has experienced multiple incidents that left damage that didn't look much different), would've been repairable and returned to service in fairly short order without question.
This is a heavy amount of speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if an E or F unit would've gotten through unscatched in the same incident that wrote off this locomotive, without the carbody breaking behind the cab to absorb some of the impact.
Either way, with the energy involved in a high speed derailment like this, there very well may be more in question here that just what meets the eye.
Leo,
I'm guessing here, but the NJT locomotive's frame appears bent. It also appears that the collision posts that protect the crew are deformed. There is probably a lot of hidden damage that makes repair uneconomical.
BaltACD Leo_Ames This was a very violent wreck. With how a modern passenger locomotive is designed to sacrifice itself to absorb the energy during an incident, this brand new Amtrak electric might have structual damage that's uneconomical to repair. The wreck was high speed, but except for the 1st car that wrapped around the catenary pole. not terribly violent as no 'immovable' objects were directly struck - just a whole lot of moving off the rails
Leo_Ames This was a very violent wreck. With how a modern passenger locomotive is designed to sacrifice itself to absorb the energy during an incident, this brand new Amtrak electric might have structual damage that's uneconomical to repair.
This was a very violent wreck. With how a modern passenger locomotive is designed to sacrifice itself to absorb the energy during an incident, this brand new Amtrak electric might have structual damage that's uneconomical to repair.
The wreck was high speed, but except for the 1st car that wrapped around the catenary pole. not terribly violent as no 'immovable' objects were directly struck - just a whole lot of moving off the rails
That's my assumption, as well.
But it also was when I first saw a picture of that NJT locomotive. To the untrained eye, that's nothing evident that a few days in a shop couldn't cure. But obviously, they don't retire brand new locomotives that are pushing the $10 million dollar mark lightly. The structual integrity must be shot and she's of no use beyond serving as a parts source.
So it will be interesting to see what happens here, especially now that a few weeks have gone by and it doesn't look harsh to be speculating and curious about the fate of the equipment (For some reason, some people think the two should be mutually exclusive somehow, and that it's callous to be curious about the equipment when the accident is fresh).
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