jcburns I'm waiting for the drones that can touch down on a high-tension power line and charge up in 3 seconds...or fry to a crisp.
I'm waiting for the drones that can touch down on a high-tension power line and charge up in 3 seconds...or fry to a crisp.
Be more fun to watch the latter.
Norm
Paul of CovingtonThe current best on the market consumer quadcopter is only good for 20 minutes.
This is not a hobby store quadcopter.
This is an octocopter and weighs in at 55 pounds. Certainly it can carry more battery at that weight.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Murphy Siding tree68 One huge factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the relatively limited flight time of such vehicles. The current best on the market consumer quadcopter is only good for 20 minutes. Ya gotta think outside the boxes- air to air refueling. The airforce has been doing it since maybe the late 40's. If we can imagine drones flying above trains and dodging airplanes, surely we can imagine them refueling in flight.
tree68 One huge factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the relatively limited flight time of such vehicles. The current best on the market consumer quadcopter is only good for 20 minutes.
One huge factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the relatively limited flight time of such vehicles.
The current best on the market consumer quadcopter is only good for 20 minutes.
Ya gotta think outside the boxes- air to air refueling. The airforce has been doing it since maybe the late 40's. If we can imagine drones flying above trains and dodging airplanes, surely we can imagine them refueling in flight.
I was thinking of putting little heli-ports on the locomotives. The drones can come back and re-fuel or re-charge every 20 minutes.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Murphy Siding zugmann Knowing Amazon, they probably have 737s on their site. With free Prime shipping, too. And in the future, they'll ship them to your door with a drone.
zugmann Knowing Amazon, they probably have 737s on their site. With free Prime shipping, too.
Knowing Amazon, they probably have 737s on their site. With free Prime shipping, too.
And in the future, they'll ship them to your door with a drone.
That'd be one awesome drone.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
dehusmanIf I was going to fly one in conjunction with a train I would do it behind the train in high fire risk areas by about 15-20 minutes with an infrared camera looking for hot spots.
And this could be done from fixed locations as well.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Primary railroad drone uses are by the engineering dept and emergency response. Bridge inspection, ability to look under a bridge without a "snooper" lift. Drones could also survey track before/during/after flooding conditions. Drones can survey an incident scene where there is suspected hazmat releases or there is restricted access.
If I was going to fly one in conjunction with a train I would do it behind the train in high fire risk areas by about 15-20 minutes with an infrared camera looking for hot spots.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Also remember the drone that landed at the White House.
According to news reports the operator(who had been drinking at the time) was flying it inside his apartment when it got away from him.
Thx IGN
zugmann Euclid I have a feeling that every sort of business is going to be buying drones and trying to figure out why they need them. It is just too gee whizz to resist. Everybody is going to need a drone to keep up with their competition. Until somebody brings an airplane down with a drone (not a matter of if but a matter of when, I'm afraid). Then that will be the end of the drone experiment, except for very limited uses.
Euclid I have a feeling that every sort of business is going to be buying drones and trying to figure out why they need them. It is just too gee whizz to resist. Everybody is going to need a drone to keep up with their competition.
Until somebody brings an airplane down with a drone (not a matter of if but a matter of when, I'm afraid). Then that will be the end of the drone experiment, except for very limited uses.
Rgds IGN
Norm48327 The FAA has not yet finalized rules for operating drones and are notorious for taking their time.
The FAA has not yet finalized rules for operating drones and are notorious for taking their time.
While this is OK for track inspection under limited circumstances (10 minutes out and 10 minutes back at 30 MPH equals five miles), it's hardly suitable for chasing a train for 8 hours.
Never mind the requirement to have the drone in sight at all times, I would envision an employee going to one of several set locations known to need such inspection, uploading the planned route to the quad copter (it would have to be capable of autonomous flight based on GPS), then launching it and waiting for it's return. If the quad copter is capable of transmitting video for the entire trip, then the employee simply watches on his computer screen. If not, when the drone returns, he downloads the video and observes it then.
Larger autonomous flight vehicles exist - at a larger price.
Murphy Siding Wizlish Seeing as drones are currently not licensed for most 'business purposes', and aren't allowed legally to fly above 500 feet or out of line of sight of the operator, and can't be flown near airports unless the operator specifically informs the tower... I'd be much more concerned with where that 737 would have to be to ingest the drone! Otherwise the insurance just wouldn't pay -- and the fun would be getting any sort of damages out of whatever deep pockets a clever lawyer could involve. In our city, one of the main flight paths overflies the rail yard. The other 3 flightpaths overfly active rail lines. There are railroad tracks on three sides of the airport property. If euclid's drone follows a train, there's a chance it will be in conflict with an airplane sooner or later. As far as simply not paying, once a drone takes down an aircraft, is that realistic thinking? I've seen where Amazon wants to try home deliveries via drone. Do you think Amazon can get away with not paying when they take out a 737?
Wizlish Seeing as drones are currently not licensed for most 'business purposes', and aren't allowed legally to fly above 500 feet or out of line of sight of the operator, and can't be flown near airports unless the operator specifically informs the tower... I'd be much more concerned with where that 737 would have to be to ingest the drone! Otherwise the insurance just wouldn't pay -- and the fun would be getting any sort of damages out of whatever deep pockets a clever lawyer could involve.
Seeing as drones are currently not licensed for most 'business purposes', and aren't allowed legally to fly above 500 feet or out of line of sight of the operator, and can't be flown near airports unless the operator specifically informs the tower... I'd be much more concerned with where that 737 would have to be to ingest the drone!
Otherwise the insurance just wouldn't pay -- and the fun would be getting any sort of damages out of whatever deep pockets a clever lawyer could involve.
In our city, one of the main flight paths overflies the rail yard. The other 3 flightpaths overfly active rail lines. There are railroad tracks on three sides of the airport property. If euclid's drone follows a train, there's a chance it will be in conflict with an airplane sooner or later. As far as simply not paying, once a drone takes down an aircraft, is that realistic thinking? I've seen where Amazon wants to try home deliveries via drone. Do you think Amazon can get away with not paying when they take out a 737?
I believe the concept of strict liability would be applied there and the corporation would have to pay damages.
Murphy Siding In our city, one of the main flight paths overflies the rail yard. The other 3 flightpaths overfly active rail lines. There are railroad tracks on three sides of the airport property. If euclid's drone follows a train, there's a chance it will be in conflict with an airplane sooner or later.
The 'simple' answer is to keep the drone strictly out of the glideslope or whatever actual approach volume has to be controlled-- this falls under the 'alert the tower when drone flying is anticipated' (and it was my understanding that the tower would at some point have the authority to forbid the activity during active takeoff and landing operations, rather than just tell traffic to avoid the area...)
This would of course require active separation measures, at least some of them built into the drones. Since we're talking about 'legal' railroad-owned and -controlled drones, there shouldn't be a problem with coordinating a temporary shutdown or strict spatial separation by whatever procedures are deemed appropriate; this presumes there is no required railroad reason for having the drones flying continuously in active aircraft approach areas. A potential problem is that spoofing such a shutdown signal would be comparatively easy for someone interested in interfering with or compromising railroad operations, perhaps at a critical time, so there would have to be some common interaction protocol between tower and drone control (I don't think this would be insurmountable to arrange, but it would have to be arranged and standardized).
If in doubt: the drones land (or perhaps hover) in known locations. I suspect there will be some pressure to get aircraft to divert or hold under some circumstances ... especially general aviation traffic, which might take a back seat to well-enough-heeled 'business' drone users. We'll doubtless see how it plays out.
Be interesting for sure to see how the 'extraordinary' circumstances develop -- planes with declared emergencies, planes with electrical malfunctions, drones subject to unexpected trouble or perhaps active malicious interference.
Murphy Siding As far as simply not paying, once a drone takes down an aircraft, is that realistic thinking? I've seen where Amazon wants to try home deliveries via drone. Do you think Amazon can get away with not paying when they take out a 737?
Oh assuredly someone will be paying -- it just won't be the insurance company. Or the probably paper entity actually buying and flying the drone ... few assets, no deep pockets, technically only under contract to whoever wants the industrial espionage. I strongly suspect that this is a major contributor to the very restricted 'commercial' permitting for drone technology so far.
Perhaps you could establish 'new legislation' making businesses responsible for drone use on their behalf ... but that opens up more potential problems than it solves. Much the way that flying cars would if they became at all popular... or self-driving cars doubtless will as soon as they're not maintained to aircraft-level standards...
My own opinion of the Amazon 'delivery drone' idea is that it's a plaintiff's-bar bonanza just waiting to happen, a bit analogous to using pulverized coal for locomotive firing. So many things that could happen, so many damages... so little incremental revenue generation over what could be achieved safely with normal methods.
Murphy SidingWhat kind of liability insurance coverage do you suppose *every business* is going to need to cover the risk of their drone being somewhere it shouldn't be, and getting sucked into the engine of a 737?
Now, I look for specific business licensing of the more widespread use of this technology soon, with civil engineers and railroads being some of the first areas that can use them responsibly and reliably.
My own supicion is that, at the rates even cheap consumer drones like the Parrots are evolving, it won't be long before cost-effective, basically OTS devices are 'aware' of their surroundings and proximity to developing dangerous situations, and are capable of autonomous self-stabilization, avoidance of hazards like bridges or wires if the operator is distracted or has 'tunnel vision', etc. I think each unit should have a transponder, and be required to squawk it whenever requested -- just as any CB user is supposed to provide his FCC license number upon valid request, except now it's actually enforceable. That also gives you, at least in theory, the same location and proximity ID that transponders can provide on aircraft, so that multiple drones can avoid each other ... or any other traffic, including birds, that might otherwise cause crashes.
I'd be interested to see if tethered drones could be used to augment crossing safety -- or enforcement.
The Burlington Route Air Force.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7_LbdL4PNXEC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=Burlington+Route+passenger+helicopter&source=bl&ots=Fty1vWqyZ1&sig=8kcAR7BUf_M00C_7_N7X8m3h4EE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6egSVf3UGoukyASppYCgBQ&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=Burlington%20Route%20passenger%20helicopter&f=false
A feeder service that with a west wind would zip you to your Zephyr connection.
What kind of liability insurance coverage do you suppose *every business* is going to need to cover the risk of their drone being somewhere it shouldn't be, and getting sucked into the engine of a 737?
Euclid You can bet that every single bit of state, local, and federal government will find a need to be flying drones around. Day will turn to night just like during the great locust plagues.
Perhaps, but I think it is more of a fad at this point. It'll pass.
EuclidI have a feeling that every sort of business is going to be buying drones and trying to figure out why they need them. It is just too gee whizz to resist. Everybody is going to need a drone to keep up with their competition.
Yeah, right, that's the ticket, and maybe the engineer could have a lazer beam mounted to his drone and blow up the offending truck.
Murphy Siding Two thoughts- If you can come up with the technology to have a drone flying above a train that can avoid airports, flight paths, military installation, powerlines, radio towers, bridges, other drones, and tunnels without any attention by the train crew, it seems you could utilize that same technology to run the train itself, with the engineer sitting in an office somewhere (like India?).
Two thoughts- If you can come up with the technology to have a drone flying above a train that can avoid airports, flight paths, military installation, powerlines, radio towers, bridges, other drones, and tunnels without any attention by the train crew, it seems you could utilize that same technology to run the train itself, with the engineer sitting in an office somewhere (like India?).
Two thoughts- If you can come up with the technology to have a drone flying above a train that can avoid airports, flight paths, military installation, powerlines, radio towers, bridges, other drones, and tunnels without any attention by the train crew, it seems you could utilize that same technology to run the train itself, with the engineer sitting in an office somewhere (like India?). About everybody needing drones because the competionion has them: I think the first time my competitor overflew my business' airspace on a spy mission is the first time I scramble interceptor drones to take down his spy drones. Suddenly , we just entered Spy verses Spy territory in a Mad Magazine.
We need an article that explains what the drones will do and why it is a good idea. Why take the conductor off of the train to watch the drone?
With the kind of drone I was describing, the engineer could have better vision of the whole train, which would seem beneficial, but he would not have to be flying it. He would not have to even monitor it.
I have a feeling that every sort of business is going to be buying drones and trying to figure out why they need them. It is just too gee whizz to resist. Everybody is going to need a drone to keep up with their competition.
ericspWill they play "Ride of the Valkyries"?
I love the smell of synbit in the morning...
Will they play "Ride of the Valkyries"?
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
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