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The BNSF Air Force : Coming to a Railroad near you...

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Posted by carnej1 on Monday, April 20, 2015 11:24 AM

SALfan

 

 
Murphy Siding

    Yeah, right, that's the ticket, and maybe the engineer could have a lazer beam mounted to his drone and blow up the offending truck. Dead

 

 

 

Would be more fun to mount a 155mm howitzer on the front of the train and BLOW the truck out of the way.Big Smile

 

SALfan

 

 
Murphy Siding

    Yeah, right, that's the ticket, and maybe the engineer could have a lazer beam mounted to his drone and blow up the offending truck. Dead

 

 

 

Would be more fun to mount a 155mm howitzer on the front of the train and BLOW the truck out of the way.Big Smile

 

What you probably would want is a direct fire weapon such as the 120mm main gun from an M1 Abrams tank.

 O.C, any artillery would still leave enough chunks of truck on the tracks to derail the lead locomotive...and any weapon powerful enough to vaporize a truck would also catastropically damage the track and roadbed.

I'm thinking maybe a Russian M-26 flying crane chopper with an electromagnet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26

Drone spots the truck and heli swoops in. Of course if the offending vehicle is over 20 tons the 'copter won't be of much help...

  

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Posted by Wizlish on Sunday, April 19, 2015 2:40 PM

No, more like "BNSF 4432, Bismarck Tower, you are cleared to launch drone NDBX99032 at 2100 hours, and operate within envelope A* until mile 532."

(I'm using fake numbers here, as I don't know either the conventions or road details in the Bismarck area.  But it will involve some form of N-number for each device carried (here NDX being N, American tail number, D drone/UAV, X by analogy with four character private railroad car identifier); and give specific time and location information for the authorization.  Here the time would correspond to the anticipated start of the train, and the distance indication would be for some limiting condition -- a bridge, natural feature, airport boundary, or some other area.  The 'envelope' would be a code system in railroad rules incorporating things like line-of-sight, permissible altitude or distance from locomotive, use of sensor fusion or night vision augmentation, etc., and would probably be precoded into the drone control unit carried onto the locomotive by a given crew.)

I'm personally looking forward with great interest to the upcoming chapter of Don Oltmann's blog on future electrified railroading that incorporates and expands on this sort of operations.  Since il miglior fabbro I expect to learn a great deal about the practical implications of this...

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, April 19, 2015 12:27 PM

"BNSF 4432, Bismarck Tower, you are cleared for take off on track 3"

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Posted by Wizlish on Sunday, April 19, 2015 9:37 AM

The NPRM (governmentese for 'notice of proposed rule-making', which is itself governmentese for pending enforceable 'laws' as applied to people) covers just the additions and enhancements to the existing policies regarding aircraft use that they expect will be 'requirements for the safe operation of [UAVs/'drones'] in the national airspace system'.  To quote a bit more governmentese, here is the rationale as they give it:

"This rulemaking is promulgated under the authority described in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 (Public Law 112-95). Section 333 of Public Law 112-95 directs the Secretary of Transportation (1) to determine whether “certain unmanned aircraft systems may operate safely in the national airspace system.” If the Secretary determines, pursuant to section 333, that certain unmanned aircraft systems may operate safely in the national airspace system, then the Secretary must “establish requirements for the safe operation of such aircraft systems in the national airspace system.” (2)

"This rulemaking is also promulgated pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 40103(b)(1) and (2), which charge the FAA with issuing regulations: (1) To ensure the safety of aircraft and the efficient use of airspace; and (2) to govern the flight of aircraft for purposes of navigating, protecting and identifying aircraft, and protecting individuals and property on the ground. In addition, 49 U.S.C. 44701(a)(5), charges the FAA with prescribing regulations that the FAA finds necessary for safety in air commerce and national security."

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, April 19, 2015 9:16 AM

Wizlish

Resuscitating this because comments to the FAA close April 24th

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2015-0150-0017

 

 

56 pages for a government regulation. Looks a little short to me, but then it does look like it is printed in Governmentese.

ROAR

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Posted by Wizlish on Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:28 PM

Resuscitating this because comments to the FAA close April 24th

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2015-0150-0017

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, March 27, 2015 8:22 AM

Phoebe Vet

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/10/airliner-nearly-collides-with-drone-over-florida/

 The near-miss in March between a drone and a US Airways jet in the sky over Tallahassee appears to be the first time a commercial airliner nearly collided in midair, raising fear about the possibility of future close calls.

 

  I saw a 737 suck achickenhawk into an engine on it's take-off run once.   The front wheel was just about to lift when it happened.  The engine made a big *POP!* sound, and the pilot set the nose back down and hit the binders.  Two mechanics had to fly in from another city to disasemble the engine and pull out feathers and bird guts.  There's no doubt in my mind that sucking in a hobby sized drone type thingie into a jet engine could be catastophic.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, March 27, 2015 7:38 AM

"Wouldn't work in a quiet zone.  Besides, don't you think the engineer and conductor have enough duties in the cab already, without worrying about reloading and such?"

But it would create new employment opportunities because they'd have to hire a nose gunner.Big Smile

Norm


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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, March 27, 2015 7:34 AM

SALfan

 

 
Murphy Siding

    Yeah, right, that's the ticket, and maybe the engineer could have a lazer beam mounted to his drone and blow up the offending truck. Dead

 

 

 

Would be more fun to mount a 155mm howitzer on the front of the train and BLOW the truck out of the way.Big Smile

 

   Wouldn't work in a quiet zone.  Besides, don't you think the engineer and conductor have enough duties in the cab already, without worrying about reloading and such?

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Friday, March 27, 2015 6:39 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/10/airliner-nearly-collides-with-drone-over-florida/

 The near-miss in March between a drone and a US Airways jet in the sky over Tallahassee appears to be the first time a commercial airliner nearly collided in midair, raising fear about the possibility of future close calls.

Dave

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Posted by SALfan on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:43 PM

Murphy Siding

    Yeah, right, that's the ticket, and maybe the engineer could have a lazer beam mounted to his drone and blow up the offending truck. Dead

 

Would be more fun to mount a 155mm howitzer on the front of the train and BLOW the truck out of the way.Big Smile

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:49 PM

Stagehand "Unit 6-8."

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, March 26, 2015 3:09 PM

Mookie

 

 
Murphy Siding

    Two words (more or less): CB Radio. 

10-4 good buddy, see ya on the flip-flop

 

 

 

Bassett Hound here.  Don't have ears any more, but traveled w/a trucker and that was our "smart phone".  

 

 

  Basset hound?  to Mookie....dogs to cats....hmmm...I'm seeing something here, but not sure what. Huh?

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, March 26, 2015 2:54 PM

Murphy Siding

    Two words (more or less): CB Radio. 

10-4 good buddy, see ya on the flip-flop

 

Bassett Hound here.  Don't have ears any more, but traveled w/a trucker and that was our "smart phone".  

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:52 PM

Murphy Siding
I'm sure there are still HAM radio operators out there,

Yep - I just became one.  You're right, it's not a huge group, but there's more than you might think.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:39 PM

tree68

 

 
Murphy Siding

    Two words (more or less): CB Radio. 

10-4 good buddy, see ya on the flip-flop.

 

 

True.  

One must remember, though, that many folks who used CB for business or official purposes in the early days eventually migrated to commercial LMR radio, including the "itinerant" channels, and now even trunked radio for some businesses.  FRS and GMRS are also now in play for users who may have used CB in the past.

I haven't been on CB in years, but I think it's still a going concern.  Just not like it was in it's heyday.

 

  Drones, or whatever we are calling these things, may end up the same way.  I'm sure there are still HAM radio operators out there, but like CB's or drones, it's a very small slice of the hobby industry.

     45 years ago my folks were into CB radios.  We lived 23 miles out in the boonies.  My father would call home every night at 5:15 "KLU-0331 mobile calling KLU-0331 base.....over".  He called to see if she needed anything in town.  I don't recall that she ever did, but if she did......  If my folks were still alive today, I imagine Mom could use the drone to check the lawn and let Dad know it was time to mow again.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:56 AM

Euclid
Has BNSF actually started using drones?  The whole plan sounds a little farfetched to me.  The references that I have seen are always wrapped up in a lot of explanation about union contracts with the drone just mentioned in passing.  Regarding drones being a fad, gadgets sell like hotcakes, and drones fit right into that market.  But I am surprised that a railroad company would jump on that bandwagon. 
 

I am certain that they have. Not so much as a practicle work device, but more of a show-and-tell to the unions. "See, Look what we got! You wanna join in the fun?"

It is just like a push for operatorless trains, or trains with just a "rider" in the cab rather than an engineer and conductor. They *have* demonstrated this technology in a subtle way to their employees. On one run, my friend the conductor (and his engineer) were told not to touch the horn valve, and that the train would sound the horns automatically via GPS.

And the horns sounded with out any intervention.

Demonstration complet, now back to our regularly scheduled programing.

The engineers were offered the job of handling trains by remote control in the yards and at certain industries, they turned the offer down flat. Apparently they did not want to get out of their warm cabs and ditz about with heavy appliences, levers and switches.

The Conductor's Union accepted the responsibility, what the heck, they gotta go out there anyway, they may as well run the locomotive. No big deal.

BNSF is always out there looking for savings.

ROAR

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:10 AM

Murphy Siding

    Two words (more or less): CB Radio. 

10-4 good buddy, see ya on the flip-flop.

True.  

One must remember, though, that many folks who used CB for business or official purposes in the early days eventually migrated to commercial LMR radio, including the "itinerant" channels, and now even trunked radio for some businesses.  FRS and GMRS are also now in play for users who may have used CB in the past.

I haven't been on CB in years, but I think it's still a going concern.  Just not like it was in it's heyday.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:13 AM

    Two words (more or less): CB Radio. 

10-4 good buddy, see ya on the flip-flop

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:05 AM

Euclid
Regarding drones being a fad, gadgets sell like hotcakes, and drones fit right into that market.  But I am surprised that a railroad company would jump on that bandwagon. 

While the fad thing will eventually pass (thousands of "consumer" UAVs will be collecting dust in closets before too long), I think the industry will mature, and legitimate uses will be found - many of which have already been mentioned.

Looking specifically at railroad uses - the original concept of doing cursory inspections of trouble spots could be a real timesaver.  No longer would a track inspector need to get track and time for a patrol.  Just launch the UAV and run it from a safe location off the tracks.  If problems are found, then it's time to set on and take a first hand look.

As has also been mentioned, this isn't a job for my Parrot AR.Drone 2.0.  "Industrial quality" devices will be used, possibly even with satellite communications.  Parameters can be set into the GPS to keep them out of trouble (ie, aircraft conflicts). There would be little need to fly them over 50 feet or so anyhow, barring "hard" obstructions.

I'm not at all surprised that BNSF (or any other railroad) would look to using UAV's.  We know that management is always looking for a way to save a buck.  This is just one possibility.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:54 AM

Railroads have used them for bridge inspections.

One thing people seem to be misunderstanding.  The labor contrat wasn't saying that a conductor ON A TRAIN would be flying a drone, its said the CRAFT that would be flying drones would be a conductor (as opposed to an engineer or a maintenence employee).  The conductors were carving out who does the work.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:28 AM
Has BNSF actually started using drones?  The whole plan sounds a little farfetched to me.  The references that I have seen are always wrapped up in a lot of explanation about union contracts with the drone just mentioned in passing.  Regarding drones being a fad, gadgets sell like hotcakes, and drones fit right into that market.  But I am surprised that a railroad company would jump on that bandwagon. 
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Posted by Dakguy201 on Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:13 AM

It seems to me that the requirement the drone remain within sight of the operator severely limits its use.  Perhaps wreck inspection in a suspected hazardous enviroment might occur or the inspection of structural members of a bridge, but these are unusual circumstances.  

To use a non-railroad example -- these things are being promoted as a tool to inspect growing crops.  However, in my part of the country, fields of 30 or 40 acres are very common.  A drone in the middle of that field perhaps is within my line of sight, but it may not be within my range of vision.  A rail line, being long and narrow, suffers much more from that same limitation.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:59 AM

In the aviation sense, when I hear the term "drone" I usually think of an unmanned target aircraft or reconnaissance aircraft flown by remote control from a considerable distance away.  I definitely do not think of the overgrown toys that are currently being called drones.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 8:37 PM

zugmann

Apples and oranges.  A car is practical conveyence.  A drone is nothing more than an expensive toy for the majority of people.  Add in a few extra FAA regs some day, and nobody but a handful of hobbyist is going to want to bother. 

 

I'm pretty pro-drone in large scale applications, but the thing is sooooooo faddish.  Most "drones" are simply RC helicopters with a trendy name slapped on it.  If you're flying it, it's not a drone!

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:19 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
tree68

One huge factor that nobody has mentioned yet is the relatively limited flight time of such vehicles.

The current best on the market consumer quadcopter is only good for 20 minutes.  

 

 

 

 

  Ya gotta think outside the boxes- air to air refueling.  The airforce has been doing it since maybe the late 40's.  If we can imagine drones flying above trains and dodging airplanes, surely we can imagine them refueling in flight. Whistling

 

 

What about a solar powered drone? Could fly all day and then stay near a headlite by nite!

 

Thx IGN

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:18 PM

Apples and oranges.  A car is practical conveyence.  A drone is nothing more than an expensive toy for the majority of people.  Add in a few extra FAA regs some day, and nobody but a handful of hobbyist is going to want to bother. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Lake on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:06 PM

zugmann

 

 
Euclid
You can bet that every single bit of state, local, and federal government will find a need to be flying drones around.  Day will turn to night just like during the great locust plagues.
 

 

Perhaps, but I think it is more of a fad at this point.  It'll pass.

 Just like the automobile was going to be a fad. Then when it seemed too be catching on, cities were trying to ban them, but it was like trying to stop drinking with prohibition.

People will want their own drone!SoapBox

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:44 PM

BroadwayLion
This is not a hobby store quadcopter. This is an octocopter and weighs in at 55 pounds. Certainly it can carry more battery at that weight.

No doubt - but probably still not enough to follow a mainline freight for several hundred miles at 60-70 MPH.

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