In trouble because he waved.

[zugmann]

Interesting blog piece hiding in in the corner of this website:

 

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2015/01/28/railroaders-railfans-and-the-letter.aspx

 

Some interesting discussion on there that may amuse some of the people on here that don't venture to that part of the website. 

PS. for some reason I can't get the link to activate.  Power crystals must be broken.

[BaltACD]

My personal take -

Railfan interjecting himself where he didn't belong in writing the letter.

[schlimm]

zugmann

Interesting blog piece hiding in in the corner of this website:

 

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2015/01/28/railroaders-railfans-and-the-letter.aspx

 

Some interesting discussion on there that may amuse some of the people on here that don't venture to that part of the website. 

PS. for some reason I can't get the link to activate.  Power crystals must be broken.

 

 

I couldn't activate it either.  However, I read most of the thread and one phrase the OP Steve used seems to apply: "strikes me as juvenile"   but on ALL sides.   I fail to see what sensible reason there is for train crews deliberately to ruin a picture and I also fail to see why the railfan, who feels so "entitled" needed to report the incident.  Some folks need to grow up and chill.

[schlimm]

 tried to activate again and it failed.

[Deggesty]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2015/01/28/railroaders-railfans-and-the-letter.aspx

 

Highlight it, do a right click--and you can go to it.

I found it to be interesting.

[schlimm]

Deggesty

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2015/01/28/railroaders-railfans-and-the-letter.aspx

 

Highlight it, do a right click--and you can go to it.

I found it to be interesting.

 

Yes, Johnny, that's what I did, too.   Interesting, but only up to a point.  After awhile, the "equum mortuum verberans" [hopefully that will avoid the wrath of the Latin police on here] state comes into play.  

[tree68]

Ahhh, photobombing.

As was alluded to by one commenter, most folks would be extremely upset if some bozo kept inserting themselves into a photo they were trying to take, maybe a keepsake at a scenic wonder or the like.

It would appear this was one in the same.

Can't say as I agree or disagree with the letter.  To me, though, the single biggest point was made by one commenter who noted that this incident had made the company look bad.  

Every picture of a train that appears on a photo site, or in a magazine, or at a slide show is an advertisement for the company.  I'm sure the company wants those pictures to be a positive image.

Some time back we had a forum member who caused a ruckus when he posted that he didn't wave.  That's his option.  This conductor went the other way.

[Euclid]

Is the letter posted somewhere?  I would like to read it. 

Steve says he was not doing anything wrong, and I agree with him.  But then he turns around and says the conductor was harassing him and that was wrong.  Really?  Where is the law or rule that says a person is entitled to not be harassed?  How do you define harassment as it is being alleged by Steve in this instance? 

Whatever “harassment” means, I would be surprised if standing in the locomotive doorway and waving would ever amount to harassment, even if the intent is to ruin the photo.

By the same token, I do not think that writing the letter was wrong (depending on what was actually said).  Steve had the right to write the letter, and the company had a right to complain about it.  Both seem like an overreaction.  Both seem to involve a sense of entitlement.  I am actually more surprised at the reaction of the railroad.

[Paul of Covington]

zugmann

PS. for some reason I can't get the link to activate.  Power crystals must be broken.

 

   Apparently it's the "...aspx".   I always wondered why so many were complaining about links not activating when I had never had one fail to activate automatically.   After the software upgrade, they still activate except for those ending in "...aspx".

[Paul of Covington]

   Euclid, I agree.   I think some people enjoy confrontation.

[Uncle Jake]

It should be noted that the railroad, being a commercial transportation provider, is not under any obligation to provide excellent photgraphic opportunities. Purposely messing up a picture is still rude however. If it had been a tourist railroad then yes, writing the letter would have been warranted. Since it wasn't, I'd just wait for the next train.

[Ulrich]

Looks like everyone in this story needs to chill...this can be defused with too simple words "I'm sorry".. coming from any of the parties involved.  Sometimes you've got to say it even when there's enough blame to go around. The bigger man won't hesitate.. 

[Convicted One]

Could it be that the employee got in trouble for issues other than the photographer assumes?

 

Perhaps the photo simply provided documentary evidence of the conductor doing other than what his job description calls for,  and the author is mistakenly assuming that the railroad was punishing the employee for " overtly ruining" his hobby?

[Euclid]

This needs a lot more explanation now that Steve G. has brought it up.  Since the railroad and union are said to have reacted so strongly, I would like to know what Steve said to the company in his letter.  It might help put the company reaction in full context. 

I would also like to see what the conductor was doing in this photo-wrecking spree.  To conclude that a trainman getting up in the door to wave was an attempt to wreck the photo may not be accurate.  It could be the conductor standing up for some reason, and then spotting someone who needs a big friendly wave. 

But, if this was a sort of mocking or derisive waving coupled with obvious hostility, then it is probably accurate to conclude hostile intent.  Of course nobody is entitled to be shielded from hostility.  I am just wondering how it looked.  Whatever was going on there, I would feel somewhat lucky to have taken the photo.  The photo might have considerable popular interest if it portrays unprofessional behavior.  The way that it apparently has stirred up a hornet’s nest, makes it seem like unprofessional behavior may have occurred and the company found it to be embarrassing.   

So, I would say to Steve G. that he should post the photos and the letter he wrote.  Also post the letter that the company sent back to him.  I would like to see how this all went down.    

[edblysard]

One word…..

Unbelievable!

Are these adults?

From both sides….

Nothing better to worry about?.

[Andrew Falconer]

Take photos of everything that happens, not just locomotive shots.

[ricktrains4824]

Someone waved, and he got upset over it.... I get a crew to wave, I'm flat out elated... Happens so little anymore.... I just don't get it, but I also was not there, and I get the feeling there is a whole lot more to this story then what we have been given. I think we either need more information, or this will keep being a "oh my goodness" and "did you hear..." thread. All I know, is that we most likely have not got all the information that we need, and therefore am passing on giving judgement. 

[lenzfamily]

[quote user="edblysard"]

One word…..

Unbelievable!

Are these adults?

From both sides….

Nothing better to worry about?.

 

edblysard

One word…..

Unbelievable!

Are these adults?

From both sides….

Nothing better to worry about?.

 

edblysard

One word…..

Unbelievable!

Are these adults?

From both sides….

Nothing better to worry about?.

 

I have to say I agree with Ed. Nobody is a winner in this one....

Sad that railfanning has (at least in this situation) come to this petty state of affairs.

Charlie

Chilliwack, BC 

[ChrisB1962]

I suggest reading the article.  Steve didn't write a nasty letter because somebody leaned out a cab window and made a friendly gesture.  The employee in question left the cab mulitiple times to stand on the 'front porch' of the locomotive when he saw Steve's group trackside.  And since Steve presumably has the photos to back up his story, I'd say his description is accurate.

[dakotafred]

Just read the subject blog post. By the time Steve G. and his pals had descended to hiding in the weeds, the whole thing had become low, childish comedy on both sides.

The conductor is obviously a cretin whose behavior was unprofessional and probably unsafe. That he could be spared from the cab for such antics could be turned into a strong argument for one-man crews, at least on that line.

As for Steve G.: He is HOW old, and has been taking pictures for HOW many years?  

[Euclid]

If Steve is going to write a blog piece about it, I think he ought to show us the proof since he has such clear documentation as pictures and letters.  Otherwise it is just a “he said, she said.”  It is a fascinating story.  But as we all know, in a conflict, both sides tend to shape the details in their favor.

If Steve’s letter has inflamed the entire northwest railroad community, the blog piece is going to pour more gasoline on the fire.  So let’s see the photo.  What could better illustrate a conductor purposely ruining a photo than the ruined photo itself? 

[schlimm]

As I and others have said, both Steve and the conductor seem juvenile and need to chill out.  The only saving grace for Steve is that he may actually be a kid, albeit a spoiled jerk.   The conductor is simply a jerk posing as an adult.

[dakotafred]

All:

The fast way to find the subject blog is to click on "Observation Tower" in the list for "Our Community." Steve's blog is third down.

The accompanying mug shows him to be physically mature. (His byline has been in TRAINS for years.)

[wanswheel]

“To say we were upset would be an understatement. It was Memorial Day Weekend, and we had driven more than 200 miles to have some fun and pursue our hobby.”

This is where he went wrong. I’m so old I remember people were apt to be on their good behavior then. It was not the ‘unofficial start of summer,’ it was a day to honor fallen comrades. Millions of World II vets in the prime of life, thousands of World War I vets younger than I am now, elderly Spanish-American War vets and young Korea vets insisted the holiday be appropriately observed. Anybody who’s got arms, legs and eyes intact, the day off, a car and a camera should arrange to maintain a good mood and have nothing to complain about on Memorial Day.

Pardon off-topicness.

[chatanuga]

Personally, I don't believe the letter should have been written.  So a railroader waved.  Wave back and move on.  It's not like the railroader threatened him or anything.  As one poster above said, the whole thing went on too long.  The railfan is lucky he didn't get himself reported.  While he may have been on public property, sneaking around in the bushes and popping out to get a picture would spook me if I was on the train.

Kevin

[tree68]

Euclid

What could better illustrate a conductor purposely ruining a photo than the ruined photo itself? 

An excellent point, but it's possible that they didn't bother to take any pictures because the shot with the open door and conductor was not what they wanted.  Most likely by the time it occurred to him to write the letter, the opportunity to document the "transgression" was gone.

If he was shooting film, why waste the exposure?

Had their goal been "railroaders at work," the conductor would have been playing right into their hands instead of thwarting their efforts.  In fact, returning friendly waves, giving thumbs up, etc would probably have frustrated the conductor as it would then appear that his attempts to ruin their shots did anything but...

[Euclid]

tree68

 

Euclid

What could better illustrate a conductor purposely ruining a photo than the ruined photo itself? 

An excellent point, but it's possible that they didn't bother to take any pictures because the shot with the open door and conductor was not what they wanted.  

 

In his blog, Steve said he has a photo.  He said, “I wrote to the superintendent in charge of the lines we had photographed, describing the events, the open door, and the employee. The employee in question apparently failed to take into account we had cameras. I made sure to enclose a large print of the person in question standing in the doorway of No. 8895.”

So I think he ought to post the photo here.  Saying that the conductor waved, does not leave me convinced that this was done with malicious intent.  Railfans sometimes complain when the crewmembers refuse to wave. 

And if the photo does indicate malicious intent or bad will, it is a very newsworthy photo that can serve to illustrate the grievance of railroad employees resenting being photographed while on the job.      

[tree68]

Euclid

In his blog, Steve said he has a photo. 

Ahh - I missed that.

If the employee is recognizable, though, this could go beyond "face in the crowd" exemptions from getting "models" releases.

[Norm48327]

Personal opinion, but I'm disappointed Trains editors let that blog slip through. It never should have been published as all it serves to do is create aanimosity between railfans and railroaders. The letter was uncalled for. Steve should have cut his loses and not whined about it. Railfans will suffer because of it for some time to come.

[Paul of Covington]

   What happened to people's sense of humor?   Steve should have laughed it off, then set up camouflage around his gear and self and made a game of it.  Of course, I don't know how very important his pictures are.   As I said before, some people enjoy confrontation.