Division Point? Segragation Point? Get all the passengers on a 10 car train in one car?BTW Arlo Guthrie is doing another 18 month tour.
trackrat888 Division Point? Segragation Point? Get all the passengers on a 10 car train in one car?BTW Arlo Guthrie is doing another 18 month tour.
Fifteen cars, he said. "Ten cars" throws the meter off if you try to sing it that way. And he wanted a rhyme for "rolling down to the sea."
Memphis is about as far south as the City of New Orleans could go in Tennessee before it went into Mississippi. And Tennessee is notorious for having the very first law mandating segregation (note sp.) in railroad cars, passed in 1881. So not likely it was a Jim Crow requirement. Since the City of New Orleans was a day train, IIRC arriving in Memphis in the early to mid afternoon either way, it becomes somewhat clearer that 'poetic license' is behind much of the wording of the lyrics...
I don't know that the song says IC did it, maybe Steve Goodman wrote it because the passenger in his song wanted to change cars. It's great to hear that Arlo Guthrie's touring, but what does he have to do with City of New Orleans, or even this song about the National Limited:
Riding on the Remnant of St Louie Pennsylvania's badly battered rails 15 cars and 15 restless riders passenger slowly turning pale
and on our eastbound oddity the train pulls out of Kansas C past factories, slums and roads
being passed by trains that have no names and freight yards full of shippers claims the ghostly hulk moves onward down the road
Good morning Terra Haute how are you Don't you know me I'm your errant son I'm the train they call the Remant of St Louie I'll be gone 100 miles fore my day is done
Trading insults with the steward in the diner With yesterday's chicken ain't no use keeping score pass the alka seltzer after dinner if you don't you'll be crawling on the floor
and the sons of pullman porters and the sons of engineers wonder how their fathers bought this lousy deal
the conductor sings his song again the passengers are well restrained this train's got the disappearing service blues
Good morning Steubenville how are you Don't you know me I'm your errant son I'm the train they call the Remant of St Louie I'll be gone 100 miles fore my day is done
Nightime on the Remnant of St Louie Changing tracks in Lewistown PA Halfway home and we'll be there some morning All you gotta do is get on your knees and pray
and all the towns and people scream it's all part of a vile schemeas the train stops once again to change its crew
mothers can't keep their babies asleepthe rocking's more a crashing beat and the pounding of the rails is all you hear
Good night New York, New York where are you Don't you know me I'm your errant son I'm the train they call the Remant of St Louie I've gone 100 miles, now my day is done
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
The last time I rode the IC's City of New Orleans was in the spring of 1970, and I rode from Carbondale to Carrollton Avenue (we were a little late, leaving Memphis at nine in the evening, and losing more time all the way; I did not want to miss Southern's Crescent; anything could happen when a train is being turned on the wye before backing into the station in New Orleans). I did not have to change cars in Memphis, so when I first heard the song I thought it bore some resemblance to my experience except for the changing cars--which may be artistic license put in, as has been mentioned, to have a rhyme that scans.
Johnny
I guess Arlo Guthrie is the singer who gave the City of New Orleans song a big lift, but you're right--those lyrics (and the correct turns in the tune) came from Chicago's own Steve Goodman (may he rest in peace after a life cut 'way too short by leukemia).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Steve Goodman's 800 page biography is FACING THE MUSIC by Clay Eals, now in its third printing. I haven't read the book in a few years, but my recollection is that Steve hadn't ridden the "City" south of the Ohio River at the time he wrote the song. So "changing cars in Memphis, Tennessee" was probably a product of his very fertile imagination.
Steve was from Chicago, and he rode it a number of times as a college student before he began his "real job" as an entertainer and song writer; but he didn't write the song until after he and his wife Nancy had ridden the train south from Chicago to southern Illinois to visit her relatives. I understand he did ride the train all the way to New Orleans at some point after the song had been recorded by Arlo Guthrie and others, and had become famous. I doubt that Steve went to the trouble of counting "25 sacks of mail", and I don't think the train required "three conductors".
By the way, some of his original lyrics have frequently been changed by other singers, including Arlo. The original lines were "they ride their fathers' magic carpet made of steam (not steel); and mothers with their babes asleep go rockin' to the gentle beat. The rhythm of the rails is all they dream (not feel)". "Passing towns that have no name" has become "trains that have no name". John Denver even changed the melody, fudged the credits, and changed "old black men" to "old gray men". Sacrilege!
Check out some of Steve's other songs and you will see that he wasn't beyond stretching the truth a bit to make a good story. The lyrics of novelty tunes like "Lincoln Park Pirates", "Turnpike Tom", "Chicken Cordon Bleus", "Door Number Three" (written with Jimmy Buffet), "The Dying Cub Fan's Last Request", and "You Never Even Call Me By My Name" (written with John Prine), will demonstrate that one of Steve's great strengths was his ability to tell a story, even if the facts were a bit hazy.
A lot of his songs were written just for fun, but he was capable of writing tender love songs and introspective songs too. Listen to "Yellow Coat" or "Would You Like to Learn to Dance?" (songs Kris Kristofferson admires greatly). I can also recommend "I Can't Sleep" and "My Old Man".
For Steve's entire professional career, he lived under a death sentence. He was diagnosed with Leukemia at a time when treatment of that disease was in its infancy. He lived a lot longer than he or anybody else expected. Some of his songs, like "Song For David" and "Somebody Else's Troubles" reflect that, but I don't think he ever let that affect the joy he brought to his performances --- at least I never saw it on the many occasions when I went to his shows in Chicago.
Steve was a terrific songwriter, and he is sadly missed by his family, friends, and fans. But I don't believe "City of New Orleans" was ever intended to be a documentary.
Tom
P.S. Steve was a white kid from Chicago, so segregation probably wasn't a factor in his travel experience.
If you do a You Tube search for Steve Goodman "City of New Orleans" you can find a great live performance by Steve at an affair hosted by Johnny Cash. It's a treat to see and hear "CONY" performed by the man himself.
By the way, a young Vince Gill sings back-up for Steve.
There's Arlo Guthrie's version, Steve Goodman's version, Willie Nelson's version (done with Johnny Cash, Kris Kristofferson and Waylon Jennings) and honestly I can't say which one I like the best.
I can say: Steve's original version, preferably with no accompaniment except his own acoustic guitar. It's the first version I ever heard, & it'll stick with me till I go where he went before.
Runner up is his Austin City Limits performance with Jethro Burns on mandolin.
Gotcha all!
According to the attached link.....Cars were switched on and off the City of New Orleans in Memphis, TN. So it is plausible as a safety measure that the author of the song was asked to relocate to a car not being switched as a safety precaution? Heh-heh, Gotcha!
Read text under IC Switcher #480 coupled onto the CNO Observation....
http://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisCentralStation/IC-Memphis-Pass-Pixs.htm
CMStPnPSo it is plausible as a safety measure that the author of the song was asked to relocate to a car not being switched as a safety precaution? Heh-heh, Gotcha!
You must have missed that "previously loaded Memphis coaches" in that text you mentioned. If they were not concerned about people in the cars actually being switched, they wouldn't be concerned about people in the standing train...
The song describes a southbound trip. Number 2, a northbound train, is shown in the photos having coaches added in Memphis. If the train carried extra cars north of Memphis, normal practice on the southbound run would be to assign through passengers to the through cars and "shorts" to the cars being removed in Memphis. Since Steve & his wife didn't go all the way to Memphis on the trip that inspired the song, they would have had no real reason to be concerned with changing cars in Memphis. I repeat: That line is probably fiction.
Methinks we're assuming that the riders changed cars. Maybe the lyrics refer to the removal of the cars themselves. It would have likely made for a slightly longer than usual stop, thus a notable event.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Maybe the cars being changed were RPO cars or other mail cars?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
ACY "You Never Even Call Me By My Name" (written with John Prine),
CMStPnP Gotcha all! According to the attached link.....Cars were switched on and off the City of New Orleans in Memphis, TN. So it is plausible as a safety measure that the author of the song was asked to relocate to a car not being switched as a safety precaution? Heh-heh, Gotcha! Read text under IC Switcher #480 coupled onto the CNO Observation.... http://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisCentralStation/IC-Memphis-Pass-Pixs.htm
That is a really good collection of photos...
And I'd tend to agree with other posts that "changing cars" might refer to switching cars in and out of the train as clearly did occur in Memphis...
And there is a CRI&P TA in one of those Memphis shots.
M636C
I would have to go with "switching" cars based on the fact that back in the fifties our train waited at Durand for the train from Port Huron and we took one car from that. Then our train continued west toward Owosso.
Norm
Steve Goodman was my roommate for one semester in Urbana before he dropped out (and prior to writing "CNO"). He was a warm, funny and very generous guy as well as a talented musician. However, as I recall, he was a wee bit careless about details.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I rode N.O. to Chicago in 1963. I was in the last car, and I remember that they added cars to the rear in Memphis. The song, though, as someone mentioned was not intended to be a documentary. It was intended to convey a mood, which it does successfully.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
One more factor that supports the idea that it's fiction. It's indisputable that the song describes a southbound trip: "...out on the southbound odyssey, the train rolls out of Kankakee...." I don't have an extensive collection of Official Guides, but my January, 1971 issue (fairly close to the time when the song was written) says that I.C. no. 1, the southbound City of New Orleans, arrived in Memphis at 4:41 p.m., and departed Memphis at 6:01 p.m. I don't think we can reconcile this with "Nighttime on the City of New Orleans, changing cars in Memphis, Tennessee." It's dinner time; not nighttime. But dinner time doesn't fit, so Steve said nighttime. It fits, so he used it. Artistic license.
Incidentally, the northbound "City" arrived Memphis at 2:15 p.m. and departed at 2:35 p.m., so it wasn't in Memphis at night either.
Undoubtedly, there were more than "fifteen restless riders". I doubt that Steve bothered to count.
tree68 Methinks we're assuming that the riders changed cars. Maybe the lyrics refer to the removal of the cars themselves. It would have likely made for a slightly longer than usual stop, thus a notable event.
I also think the changing cars is reference to picking up or setting out cars. Some parts of the song (to me, anyway) sound like it's being sung from the point of view of the train itself, not a specific passenger.
And like others have said, most songs are written for entertainment. They aren't, nor are they meant to be, exact documentation of something. Even songs written about specific events often have inaccuracies in them.
Sometimes, the truth just doesn't "sing."
Jeff
Right, Jeff. He says "I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans".
Also, "I'll be gone five hundred miles when day is done". At 12:05 a.m., the southbound "City" was in Hammond, Louisiana, 867.8 miles from Chicago, and the northbound counterpart was 914.5 miles from New Orleans. Steve didn't count mileposts either. He was too busy writing a great song.
I read somewhere that the CNO never had less than 200 passengers, even during the worst times. He was definitely off on that one. Having said that, I love the song.
ACY Steve Goodman's 800 page biography
Steve Goodman's 800 page biography
The first chapter is free online. On a hot night in Kansas City in '84, Steve is always very likable and sometimes extremely funny. I wonder if ‘changings cars’ could be a subliminal metaphor or something, for ‘changing chords’ in Memphis, Tennessee.
http://clayeals.com/readchapterone.asp
He was in Memphis in July 1971, to play guitar on John Prine’s record, Flashback Blues. This was after he wrote City but before Arlo recorded it.
http://www.lpdiscography.com/?page=song&song=167186
Excerpt from Huntley, Illinois newspaper Sun Day (2011)
On a cold April Monday morning in 1970, Steve Goodman sat on a southbound Illinois Central train, gazing out the window. Beside him sat his young wife, Nancy. They were taking a day trip to visit Nancy’s grandmother, who was already in her 90’s, so that the old lady could meet the young man that her granddaughter had married…
…Guthrie made the mistake of introducing Steve Goodman to John Denver, who ironically came near to killing the song altogether…
The Lake Shore Limited was in two sections one that went to NYC and the other to Boston. So depending on which way you are going you might have to change cars. IC had two branches S one that went to NOLA and the other MOAL (Mobile AL). As trains got cut many trains had gotten combined
http://www.arlo.net/ for upcoming 2015-"till the end of the world" tour dates
trackrat888 The Lake Shore Limited was in two sections one that went to NYC and the other to Boston. So depending on which way you are going you might have to change cars. IC had two branches S one that went to NOLA and the other MOAL (Mobile AL). As trains got cut many trains had gotten combined
For a time after the City of New Orleans was inaugurated, there was a through coach Louisville-New Orleans, which was switched in/out in Fulton; this through service did not last long. The through St.Louis-New Orleans coach (switched in/out in Carbondale) lasted much longer, but was gone before 1970. I do not remember just when the practice began, but the IC stopped running the diner south of Jackson, Mississippi, in the last days of the train to reduce handling charges in New Orleans. Sad to say, I do not remember just where the diner was on my last trip on the train--and I was asleep when we went through Jackson, arriving at Carrollton Avenue about six in the morning (definitely, it was night time on the train that trip).
It is quite possible that Goodman conceived the lyrics well before Amtrak in 1971, back when he was at UofI 1965 to early 1967. After all, it says "Illinois Central, Monday mornin' rail" and "the steel wheels still ain't heard the news...This train's got the disappearin' railroad blues." That sounds like an expression of the sadness in the mid to late 60s when passenger trains were being discontinued every month. Just a thought. However, I certainly do not recall Steve playing any part of that when he would pick up his guitar and say, "Hey, listen to this." At that time he also played a lot of blues.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
schlimm "This train's got the disappearin' railroad blues."
"This train's got the disappearin' railroad blues."
And I mean this as no disrespect to your former roommate. These words were handed down to me, the story I heard was that members of the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum wrote them one day when the National Limited arrived at New York on time on the correct day, in a week in which it also arrived 24 hours late, in other words on time but on the wrong day.
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