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Qualification on a line

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:59 AM

It has alway been my contention that if rail lines were adequetely marked and signed, that any qualified engineer or conductor would be able to safely transact business over any line.

As drivers we don't need Pilots when undertaking a trip to a new destination because the route is adequately marked and signed to permit us to get to our destination safely - with or without GPS.

Pre identifying grades, curves, slow orders, sidings  and other significant railroad operating constraints would give personnel adequate warning to prepare for whatever their next operating challenge would be.  At present railroads ARE NOT sufficiently marked to permit this kind of operation.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:31 AM

To qualify on a territory, you might be placed on a training board or just given a pilot.  The number of trips required depends on how hard the territory is and if it is an initial or renewal of qualification.  If it's a new territory, they might allow 3 or 4 trips, more if it's a harder territory.  A renewal is usually two trips.  The DSLE (Designated Supervisor of Locomotive Engineers, more commonly known as a Manager of Operating Practices or Road Foreman of Engines) will determine the number needed.  You can be away from a territory for a year, five months for heavy grade territories, before needing to requalify.

Except for my initial ride to qualify as an engineer, and the required bi-annual check rides, I've never had a check ride to qualify on a specific territory.  After the determined number of trips it's "Tag, you're it."  If the engineer feels he needs more trips, then the DSLE may do a check ride.

When we've detoured over the IAIS or CN due to planned work, we've used our own pilots who qualified over those foriegn lines.  The last few times we've done this the pilots were qualified by making a trip over the route in a high-rail truck.  

Jeff

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Posted by MP173 on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 8:40 PM

Familiarity with an operating district seems really prudent, if not a requirement.

 

Ed

 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 6:00 PM

MP173

Are dispatchers required to qualify on districts?  Are qualifying trips required to gain familiarity with the territory?

The dispatchers I know do visit the territories they dispatch.  How often that's necessary/required I don't know.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by MP173 on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 5:46 PM

Are dispatchers required to qualify on districts?  Are qualifying trips required to gain familiarity with the territory?

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:46 PM

Partially correct there, Mr. Buslist.

To use your example, the name of the signal ("Clear") is the Name of the signal.

The appearance is the Aspect (Green-over-whatever), as you said.

The Indication, however, is what is meant by the signal.  In this case, it's "Proceed".

It gets more complicated with other signal Names/Aspects/Indications.  For example, an Approach (name) signal, with yellow on the top or by itself (aspect), has an indcation of "Proceed prepared to stop before any part of train or engine passes the next signal.  Freight trains exceeeding 30 MPH must immediately reduce to 30 MPH.  Passenger trains exceeding 40 MPH must immediately reduce to 40 MPH."  

Carl

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Posted by Buslist on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 9:24 AM

blue streak 1

 

 
MP173

  What is the biggest issue...proper care and feeding of signal applications?
Ed

 

 

That is one consideration of many considerations.   The same signal display may be mean a different aspect on different RRs or even different divisions of same RR.    

It is time to get one national standard of what any display means as an aspect. 

 

 

 

 

Quick lesson on signal terms. The "display" or look of the signal is called the  Aspect. Begins with the letter A which helps when you think of it as the "Appearance" of the signal.  The name of the aspect is called the Indication. Beginning with I helps to remember it's the "Information" conveyed by that aspect. So green would be a signal aspect , clear would be the indication.

Tags: signal terms
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, December 15, 2014 9:13 PM

Around Chicago the CORA book is required for any offline trips, and is to be referred to for signals, timetable restrictions, or whatever (normally, the railroad employee follows his own railroad's operating rules wherever he is, by mutual agreement).

Qualification should include familiarization with the route...stuff like "what signal will I be getting to go where I need to be?", or "what does that diverging signal mean...am I going to leave the line or just cross over?"  It takes a few trips before one can remember these things.

The wreck involving the Pere Marquette was because the relief engineer (who was allegedly qualified but came from an area where red-over-anything is a diverging signal) misread a red-over yellow Restricting signal as a Diverging Approach.
(Never heard of a "Diverging Restricting".Confused)

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 15, 2014 4:09 PM

Qualifying on a territory:  Usually several trips over the line in question, followed by a check ride.  

If an engineer hasn't been over a given territory in a certain amount of time, there's usually a check ride to retain/regain qualification.

There could be some review of rules, signals aspects, as well, although I don't know whether anyone requires a written test.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Buslist on Monday, December 15, 2014 2:49 PM

blue streak 1

 

It is time to get one national standard of what any display means as an aspect. 

 

 

 

 

Ain't going to happen for lots of reasons, and with PTC the need (if any) goes away in most locations.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 15, 2014 2:16 PM

MP173

  What is the biggest issue...proper care and feeding of signal applications?
Ed

That is one consideration of many considerations.   The same signal display may be mean a different aspect on different RRs or even different divisions of same RR.    That was just one cause of Amtrak running into a NS stopped freight. The display was red over yellow which was diverging restricting on that NS siding but Amtrak thought they would only need to stop at next signal.

It is time to get one national standard of what any display means as an aspect. 

 

 

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Qualification on a line
Posted by MP173 on Monday, December 15, 2014 1:38 PM

I often hear NS and CSX dispatchers ask crews heading into Chicago if they are "qualified" to the destination.  This is usually an offline destination, such as Proviso, Kirk, Cicero, but is often on their own line.

How does one become "qualified"?  How many trips are required?  Is there a test or familiarity issue with the ETT and rules?  How is that administered?  What is the biggest issue...proper care and feeding of signal applications?

Ed

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