Trains.com

Can the railroads get back into package delivery?

4204 views
49 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, October 27, 2014 8:43 AM

Overnite Transportation was a truckload (and LTL?) hauler when purchased and later sold by UP.  As mentioned above, it was sold to United Parcel Service where it continues to operate under the brand name of "UPS Freight".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Monday, October 27, 2014 10:34 AM

Railroads used to say truck it. "Complete transportation for the heart of America."

http://www.rits.org/www/histories/RIMT/RIMT.html

Rock Island Motor Transit used to offer truck service. Check the links in the above and you will find a map that nearly mirrors the Rock Island's rail routes. This was in days when the I. C. C. controlled almost everything for hire crossing state lines. 

Does anybody know if Rock Island Motor Transit and other rail owned trucking operations were government restricted to markets the railroad already served? 

If any trucking company tried to expand their operations before deregulation it was hellish to do so. Proof of service need, other motor carriers with authority in the targeted market expansion would protest, endless hearings, etc. etc. Add to those hurdles a trucking operation owned by a railroad trying to expand its territory. 

The strategy back then may have been to retain business that was going to trucks with the railroads own trucks. I believe there was a Burlington motor freight operation similar to Rock Island Motor Transit.

The Rock Island went broke. Burlington Northern did not. I believe Burlington Northern sold off its legacy motor freight operation not long after deregulation. 

Been there. Done that. The railroads have shown little inclination to run their own motor freight operations. Selling haulage to motor carriers set up to handle pick up, delivery and small package and LTL marketing has been the trend.  

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, October 27, 2014 12:03 PM

Yes, Overnite offered LTL. Once, I received a shipment that came in by Overnite, and I did not see anything else in the van.

We were needing a certain inhalation hazard gas, and our supplier had none at its Boise distribution point--so the supplier shipped us two cylinders (about 15-18 inches tall and 4-5 inches in diameter) from Research Triangle Park, in North Carolina. When our buyer for chemicals and cylinder gases was told that they were being shipped Overnite, she wondered how they would reach us so quickly, knowing no inhalation hazard is shipped by air. Someone told her that they were coming by truck. I am certainthat the supplier paid the freight, and charged it off as a business expense.

Johnny

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, October 27, 2014 12:05 PM

Victrola1 wrote: [snipped]"...The strategy back then may have been to retain business that was going to trucks with the railroads own trucks. I believe there was a Burlington motor freight operation similar to Rock Island Motor Transit.

The Rock Island went broke. Burlington Northern did not. I believe Burlington Northern sold off its legacy motor freight operation not long after deregulation. 

Been there. Done that. The railroads have shown little inclination to run their own motor freight operations. Selling haulage to motor carriers set up to handle pick up, delivery and small package and LTL marketing has been the trend..."  

I am not wanting to get out in the weeds and argue this point, but at one time or another, a number of American RR did get into other forms of transportation, by way of enhancing their own services, and potentially their bottom lines (?).

The Missouri Pacific operated not only as a motor carrier, but in other areas as well. Here are a couple of videos they produced ( the first couple of minutes are 'slow')  @http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaSf9_Ez-eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56EZXSSXAjk

As was also mentioned the Burlington Northern had its own motor carrier, and then its own cargo airline ( based in Ft. Wayne,Indiana)

Also mentioned UPRR purchased the assets of Overnite Transportationaround about 1999(?) IIRC.    Overnite Trans. was a carrier based out of Virginia at the time, and was embroled in disputes with the Unions, as a primarily, non-union operator. Union Pacific then sold Overnite Transportation to United Parce Service. 

Southern Pacific Transportation was the motor carrier arm of the Southern Pacific RR.  SPRINT was also started by the SP Corporation, as well. 

AT&SFRR ( Santa Fe RR)  had its own motor carrier system operation. Santa Fe Trails was its Motor Bus Operation ( later sold to 'Trailways' )  And then there was the Santa Fe Skyways, An airline started after WWII to be an adjunct to its long distance trains ( Passengers were swapped to and from the trains in (IIRC) The area of Avard,Okla.(?) it utilized 4 engine Douglas(C-54/DC-7) aircraft based out of Wichita,Ks.  It only lasted for about three years(?).

A number of other railroads used their own short haul trucking operations to service "Pool Car', and captive LTL Freight Car business; via their own Company On-Line Freight Houses to handle their LTL Business.

Pennsylvania and New York Central were also in their own LTL motor freight operations, I am sure their fans in their areas can attest to what those railroads did to support those operations.

 

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, October 27, 2014 12:31 PM

Did Rio Grande Trailways and Gulf Transport carry packages?

Johnny

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • 599 posts
Posted by azrail on Monday, October 27, 2014 2:30 PM

Santa Fe Skyways was forced out of business by the CAB (Actually the airlines that that controlled the CAB)

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Monday, October 27, 2014 2:59 PM

Railroads set up bus operations when the automobile made unprofitable the every stop local passenger train. The bus was more efficent at stopping every few miles to drop off and pick up a few passengers. The bus did the same with packages.

Railroad bus operations used existing passenger stations. Buses could replace and/or reduce passenger rail service on branch lines. The bus would take travelers to the railroad's mainline.

Railroad bus service also parelled mainlines. Passengers from small towns along the mainline could get off at the next small town. Passengers could change from the bus to a train at the next larger city station where the limiteds stopped. 

Passenger service was at the forefront of shifting from pick up and deliver everywhere by rail to long haul by rail. Freight followed the same trend. The LCL business heavily into local pickup and delivery went away entirely. 

How much of a role regulatory agencies played in railroads not becoming total intermodal transportation service providers is a what if.

Freight railroads getting back into less than carload anything is as likely as their re-entering the passenger business. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Monday, October 27, 2014 5:13 PM

Victrola1

 

Freight railroads getting back into less than carload anything is as likely as their re-entering the passenger business. 

 

 

 

I hope you're right! That way guys like me can continue to cream 10% to 20% off the rate for simply setting up the consolidation and the distribution... no assets beyond a phone and computer required. 

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: Cape Coral, Florida
  • 412 posts
Posted by billio on Monday, October 27, 2014 8:06 PM

Re:  Thread title query: No.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, October 27, 2014 9:41 PM
  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 76 posts
Posted by railtrail on Thursday, October 30, 2014 7:37 PM

What I am looking at is a Railway Postal System where trains would stop at special platforms and there would be mini containers that would be automaticaly pushed on and off in seconds--rather then unloading a entire Trailer at the Intermodal Ramp and draying it to/from the UPS Package Terminal.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 76 posts
Posted by railtrail on Thursday, October 30, 2014 7:40 PM

If I understand NS owned Mayflower Lines and UP owned Overnight and was sold a couple of years later. Overnight did very little if any buisness with UP and was thus never intragrated

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 455 posts
Posted by aricat on Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:28 PM

I don't believe that Rock Island Motor Transit was ever in the package delivery business. I remember seeing Rock Island trucks in Minneapolis/ St.Paul area used in local cartage in the late 1960's. These trucks were gone a decade before the RI demise.

Package delivery is a tough way to make a buck. Fedex and UPS already  have the cream of the business. They also have the infrastructure; like warehouses, the trucks, and drivers.The other package delivery business is done by independent contractors who go after the rest of the business that UPS and Fedex doesn't want. Warren Buffet isn't going to sell popsicles at the North Pole and he is not going to get into the package delivery business either

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • 288 posts
Posted by CNSF on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 12:37 PM

Santa Fe Skyways was a freight-only venture, post-WW2. As noted by another poster, it was shut down by the government. The air-rail transcontinental passenger service you refer to was an earlier experiment, in the '20's or '30's I believe, and the airline involved was the predecessor to TWA (not connected to either the ATSF or PRR).

Also, a poster mentions that LTL/package companies such as UPS or FedEx are national, whereas no one railroad covers the entire country.  In fact, UPS and FedEx are now global.  If you're asking whether UP or CSX should consider buying one of these companies, how about trying it the other way around?  Should global freight handling companies buy one or more US railroads?

  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 88 posts
Posted by dmikee on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 1:06 PM

First of all, they would draw the opposition and ire of all the truckers. The only difference today is that you can get a truck to bring the delivery right to your doorstep instead of a REA office where you have to pick it up yourself. In some cities, REA also had local delivery service (for an added charge) so the item, especially smaller items, could be quickly delivered. But for larger and heavier items, there should still be a place for REA to compete with the trucking companies that use our free roadways.

  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 88 posts
Posted by dmikee on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 1:09 PM

Just as they do in Australia and to some extent in Britain. Using a small 20 ft container means a small truck can pick it up and deliver it to the customer's site and even negotiate tight streets and alleys.

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,139 posts
Posted by Gramp on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 2:39 PM

railtrail

What I am looking at is a Railway Postal System where trains would stop at special platforms and there would be mini containers that would be automaticaly pushed on and off in seconds--rather then unloading a entire Trailer at the Intermodal Ramp and draying it to/from the UPS Package Terminal.

 

Might there be an opportunity transporting PODS and the like by rail?

http://www.pods.com/

 

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 1,097 posts
Posted by Buslist on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:38 AM

railtrail

The railroads want to get back with the public would station to station LTL and package delivery.Back to the 1940s. I know that Railway Express Agency was rife with corruption and was very sick in its last see-Turtles to Tucumcari: A Personal History of the Railway Express Agency. But now UPS and and the Post Office trys its best to avoid rail. Nothing under 500 miles. But railway express was very efficant and even had same day service. The rements of the warehouses had pull tracks and a small army of workers. No town was not served by them. However I have noticed in Europe and Canada rail mail has gone too.

 

 

Why would they want to? There are two very efficient and competitive and a third not quite so efficient, out there doing an excellent job. The railroad's approach has been to partner with them. Let them do the retail end and the railroads do what they do best, the line haul. 

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 11:07 AM

The railroads are still involved in the business. They are Major partners with fed ex and ups.

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,103 posts
Posted by ValleyX on Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:32 PM

railtrail

If I understand NS owned Mayflower Lines and UP owned Overnight and was sold a couple of years later. Overnight did very little if any buisness with UP and was thus never intragrated

 

Actually, it was North American Van Lines.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy