WizlishI can't help thinking that this is a situation similar to the 'Pennsylvanian' controversy we were discussing last winter. There is no question an east-west link through Memphis would be a significant contributor to Amtrak service ... but as long as the whole route essentially runs through Tennessee, its cost of provision would likewise depend upon Tennessee state funding (or at least a very significant contribution of state money would be required even if 'through' connections to other Amtrak or state services were provided). I'd vote for it. And if it were established, I'd ride it in far greater preference to the current alternative for Amtrak travel from Memphis! But I don't see any way the current (or presumptive) state leadership would find the money to subsidize it. How can we convince them otherwise?
Jim: Wizlish has it right. If Tennesseeans want a cross-state service, then an advocacy group needs to publicize it and help them to express that to their state legislators, since funding is probably going to have to include state funding. Take a look at state/regional groups' websites. A good one is the Midwest High Speed Rail: http://www.midwesthsr.org/ Pretty slick, informative and also lobbies.
Also calling out those five objectors to your post with terms like "dimwit" is NOT an effective response. It's just taking it down to a lower level focusing on personalities and process and away from the substance.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
jimnorton Remember, Nashville is at the epicenter of the largest Amtrak less area in the nation. Then and now efforts to remedy this have gone nowhere
I can't help thinking that this is a situation similar to the 'Pennsylvanian' controversy we were discussing last winter. There is no question an east-west link through Memphis would be a significant contributor to Amtrak service ... but as long as the whole route essentially runs through Tennessee, its cost of provision would likewise depend upon Tennessee state funding (or at least a very significant contribution of state money would be required even if 'through' connections to other Amtrak or state services were provided).
I'd vote for it. And if it were established, I'd ride it in far greater preference to the current alternative for Amtrak travel from Memphis! But I don't see any way the current (or presumptive) state leadership would find the money to subsidize it.
How can we convince them otherwise?
Wizlish: Thank you as I think you undertand my intent. The reverse would have been to state "I love Amtrak in its current state do you?" I am sure that would have generated the same jabs as well.
My intent here was to compare and learn from other's sucess and failures. I defaulted to failure as this is so much more common in advocay then successes.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
The Railroad Passenger Association of Alabama based numbers (I can't recall) on the multitude of cities lacking rail service. The original intent was to partner with Virgina's future efforts and a connection with the east coast trains. Remember. Tennessee is only served on its etreme western border. That leaves about 15/16 of the state Amtrakless.
The cities of Memphis, Corinth, Huntsville, Chattanooga, Knoxville and Bristol project good ridership potential. Also, the nearest east-west route skirts the great lakes! Chattanooga is a large tourist destination, Knoxville hosts Universty of Tennesee and Huntsville, through its space and military concerns, generates much travel to and from DC.
Also, at this time...the late 1990s, Norfolk Southern's Memphis to Bristol line had greater capacity then today. Remember, Nashville is at the epicenter of the largest Amtrak less area in the nation. Then and now efforts to remedy this have gone nowhere. The closest we came was Amtrak's Kentucky Cardinal being extended to Nashville. And we know what happened to the Kentucky Cardinal.....Hence more frustration.
jimnortonI thought we had nine replies spurring discussion on the difficulty of wanting increased passenger service. Instead, its about me.
To be fully fair -- let me quote from the original post:
While I support Amtrak I have given up [on?] being a part of any expansion. Anbody else?
That's about you. And, as worded, it calls for 'anybody else' to agree that they've given up, or have no more interest in being a part of Amtrak improvement.
On the other hand, I (at least) am trying to keep the discussion as you think you meant it, about how/why Amtrak does not implement plans that people have spent blood, toil, tears and sweat developing, even when they may make compelling sense. In my opinion, starting a thread which is explicitly negative about something, and then calls for expression of similar opinions, is dangerously close to a call to no few of the resident 'trolls' and troll-wannabees we have on the Forums.
I'm a bit disappointed that the objection to this topic has so often been to the poster, rather than to the opinion he posted. Shouldn't we be 'better than that'?
Thanks Schlimm. So refreshing to hear support for criticism and analysis. And you are right, the whole Amtrak issue is worthy of such which I thought might make for good conversation here......sans the dimwits.
Wow. How about if you don't want to be a part of the discussion move the hell on? I thought we had nine replies spurring discussion on the difficulty of wanting increased passenger service. Instead, its about me. I want a dimwit filter on the forum.
In my opinion -- never give up.
No, there's 'nothing' to show for all your advocacy. (And, I suspect, that's because until more fundamental things about Amtrak's whole LD operating model are changed for the better ... and I don't see the important fundamental things being changed any time soon, or even within a predictable time frame ... adding new LD services, or new services requiring state or multi-state financing, is just throwing more money down an already gaping hole.) But that isn't any reason to 'quit' -- or go negative. (It's fun to be a curmudgeon sometimes, but there are too few people, I think, who keep 'fighting the good fight' even at the darkest hour...)
While there are places to have the 'political' dimensions of Amtrak discussed, I don't really think comparisons to other frequently-disliked Federal agencies with a public reputation for bureaucratic lack of human interaction is particularly fair in the context of Jim's thread. That's not to say that a great many of Amtrak's policies, particularly its perceived customer service policies, don't need some massive revision ASAP, but that discussion ought to be in its own separate thread. (A thread framed as constructive criticism, with specific alternatives that work in Amtrak's context and would change its culture for the better, and not a whine tasting...)
Out of curiosity ... what would the ridership numbers be for the Memphis-Bristol segment, what communities would it serve, where would the Tennessee money to provide it be sourced, and what connecting services in the east (isn't Chattanooga either via Nashville or Knoxville 'off limits' due to freight traffic?) would need to be set up as connections to make the service viable?
jimnorton I spent a good ten year period of my life advocating Amtrak and the need for national expansion. More specically, trying to garner support for reinstating The Floridian or a route similar. Another project was linking Memphis to Bristol (via the route of Southern's Tennessean) and a connection with Virginia's rail passenger efforts. Saving the Gulf Breeze, Calling for the resumption of the Sunset east of New Orleans and bringing Amtrak back to Nashville to name others. Despite all the time and work......nothing. I have never been involved in anything more un-rewarding. It finally occured to me that I might as well be advocating OSHA, the EPA or the IRS. While I support Amtrak I have given up and being a part of any expansion. Anbody else?
I spent a good ten year period of my life advocating Amtrak and the need for national expansion. More specically, trying to garner support for reinstating The Floridian or a route similar. Another project was linking Memphis to Bristol (via the route of Southern's Tennessean) and a connection with Virginia's rail passenger efforts. Saving the Gulf Breeze, Calling for the resumption of the Sunset east of New Orleans and bringing Amtrak back to Nashville to name others.
Despite all the time and work......nothing. I have never been involved in anything more un-rewarding. It finally occured to me that I might as well be advocating OSHA, the EPA or the IRS. While I support Amtrak I have given up and being a part of any expansion. Anbody else?
Perhaps you were advocating the wrong routes? I dunno. However, I'm not going to condemn what you say because you are "negative" or "whining." Many folks on here will whine about your posts because they do not like critical analysis. But with Amtrak, for sure, it is hard to see how it can progress unless it is examined critically, both the good and the not so good alike.
Apparently, the OP rues the fact that time moves in only one direction.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I agree with the above responders.
This is very old and tiresome.
Make that 3 in a row....
23 17 46 11
What Mookie said. It has become old and tiresome.
Where's that "Ignore this user" button I asked for? You would be the first to be so honored.
Norm
Amtrak, I don't have a problem. It is the constant posting of the "whine & cheese" parties that are a real drag. Is there anything you actually like re: trains? I sure get tired of opening each of your subjects only to find that you are still ranting. But being the eternal optimist, I keep hoping you have something positive to discuss. So until I find one, I will keep ignoring your posts after the initial opening.
I am sure you are crushed....
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
In the last 10 years thier have been many Amtrak victories and improvements. Ridership numbers prove thnis. I remember the Floridian well and the Mia to LA sunset. Times have changed. The millions required to restore these services can be better spent elsewhere in the system.
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