Deggesty Concerning a Bristol-Memphis train, Wizlish mentioned funding by the state of Tennessee. However, we must remember that about 40% of the 552 miles of route is not in Tennessee, but in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. Also, there is talk of extending service from Lynchburg to Roanoke and to Bristol. I, for one, would be glad to be able to reach Bristol by rail again, so that I could get to my college reunions by rail. As it is, I rent a car at a convenient railhead and drive to and from Bristol.
Concerning a Bristol-Memphis train, Wizlish mentioned funding by the state of Tennessee. However, we must remember that about 40% of the 552 miles of route is not in Tennessee, but in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi.
Also, there is talk of extending service from Lynchburg to Roanoke and to Bristol.
I, for one, would be glad to be able to reach Bristol by rail again, so that I could get to my college reunions by rail. As it is, I rent a car at a convenient railhead and drive to and from Bristol.
Euclid tree68 Euclid Their real grievance is they don’t want those ideas to be read by others. So wrecking the thread is their button. I simply try to debunk what I see as erroneous information, although I can see where some folks would consider that "wrecking the thread." I agree. I don't see basic disagreement or correcting erroneous information as being capable of "wecking the thread." Usually when people disagree in a thread, they want the thread to keep going so they can come to some resolution. So they don't want to wreck the thread.
tree68 Euclid Their real grievance is they don’t want those ideas to be read by others. So wrecking the thread is their button. I simply try to debunk what I see as erroneous information, although I can see where some folks would consider that "wrecking the thread."
Euclid Their real grievance is they don’t want those ideas to be read by others. So wrecking the thread is their button.
I simply try to debunk what I see as erroneous information, although I can see where some folks would consider that "wrecking the thread."
I agree. I don't see basic disagreement or correcting erroneous information as being capable of "wecking the thread." Usually when people disagree in a thread, they want the thread to keep going so they can come to some resolution. So they don't want to wreck the thread.
Posts like this one, for example, are hardly correcting any erroneous infromation:
SALfan edblysard Make that 3 in a row.... Four.
edblysard Make that 3 in a row....
Make that 3 in a row....
Four.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
One would think that there ought to be enough ridership history that one could, using actual historical data, project the ridership of a route based on the population density through which it travels and then determine if its realistic or what subsidy would be required to maintain the service.
Just because somebody "wants" service on a particular route doesn't mean its economically viable. If a city wants service, figure out how much it costs and then then let them pony up the bucks to make it happen. If the proposal is between City A and City B, find a half dozen similar sized cities on existing AMTK routes and see what originating and terminating traffic there is at those cities. That should give a rough idea on what the actual usage wil be. Get data on the operating costs. Then figure out between the state, the cities, AMTK and the passengers, who is going to pay what part of the operating costs.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I am going to state for the record one time, then I am letting this thread alone.
I said nothing derogatory on this thread. I also said nothing to warrant an attack against me by Schlimm.
Knock it off Schlimm.
EuclidTheir real grievance is they don’t want those ideas to be read by others. So wrecking the thread is their button.
Meanwhile, back on thread, Amtrak should be part of our national transportation solution. One might wonder if those who seek to destroy it don't simply see Amtrak as siphoning off funds from their favored solution...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wizlish(May I make a suggestion? If anyone here has a complaint about a post, or a poster, make it directly TO THEM via the private message/start conversation utility, and don't clutter up the thread with ad hoc comments ...
schlimmPerhaps you should add #4. You need good media contacts in order to publicize your plans and bring that vision to the public. In a state like TN, it has been so long since most of the state has seen passenger service, most folks there have never seen one.
Very good point. And something that might be of particular interest is that Nashville does have passenger trains, and did take the time and spend the money to put the service in place. Admittedly this isn't LD service (and note that the 5th largest conurbation in Tennessee is the Clarkville area, on the Kentucky border, which few people have actually heard of, so the effective market for rail 'commuter' and perhaps even regional traffic is somewhat limited), but does show that many people in Tennessee understand the value of railroad passenger transportation when presented.
(May I make a suggestion? If anyone here has a complaint about a post, or a poster, make it directly TO THEM via the private message/start conversation utility, and don't clutter up the thread with ad hoc comments ... regardless of how many people subsequently 'agree' with you when you do. I'm participating on this forum to discuss ideas, not people ... and particularly not what people think of other people on the forum. That doesn't mean we can't have threads that discuss people: just be sure if you start one to mention in the title that it may contain judgmental comments and I'll be pleased to avoid it...)
Please discuss railroad topics without calling each other names.
Thanks.
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
"Hey, if you don't like a thread, go post on your Eleanor thread. You may get away with your and the others' personal vendettas against Jim Norton now and others, like Euclid earlier, but it is noticed and will be met. You want to continue your merry ways, but perhaps you need a dose of your own disruption?"
And that comes from the biggest forum policeman on the block.
Norm
RRKenFolks in Northern Iowa/Southern Minnesota have not seen passenger trains in as much time. Yet plenty of Iowans supported Amtrak and were willing to expand operations in Central Iowa. It all depends on how you promote them and who you have to promote them.
Certainly!! The essence of good marketing, as former poster henry6 would say. I'm curious. Ken. What happened in Iowa to expanded services? Seems like not much is happening beyond maybe some service extension beyond the Quad Cities to Iowa City.
schlimm Hardly. There have been few passenger trains through TN with the exception of the City of New Orleans through Memphis in the western portion since 1971 and the Floridian 1971-79 by way of Nashville. Of course the residents know what passenger trains are or were, but when you never see something on a reasonably frequent basis, much less have ever ridden one, it "out of sight, out of mind."
Folks in Northern Iowa/Southern Minnesota have not seen passenger trains in as much time. Yet plenty of Iowans supported Amtrak and were willing to expand operations in Central Iowa.
It all depends on how you promote them and who you have to promote them.
RRKen "In a state like TN, it has been so long since most of the state has seen passenger service, most folks there have never seen one." Are you just guessing? Do you think they as citizens are ignorant? Or is it you want them to be ignorant because it is your paradigm?
"In a state like TN, it has been so long since most of the state has seen passenger service, most folks there have never seen one."
Are you just guessing? Do you think they as citizens are ignorant? Or is it you want them to be ignorant because it is your paradigm?
In the first place young man, I said NOTHING to you.
Secondly, you need to edit your comment to address the posters previously to me who posted in a similar vein regarding the OP.
Murray They can't put the "ignore" button" on here fast enough for me.
They can't put the "ignore" button" on here fast enough for me.
They can't put the "ignore" button on this site fast enough for me.
oltmannd jimnorton While I support Amtrak I have given up and being a part of any expansion. Anbody else? A really good question to ask! My take is that we have to be very careful what we advocate - and have to be careful to define what winning looks like. Otherwise, we'll just be modern day Don Quixotes. Do the majority of people want it? Do they know what it will cost and cost to run? Do they care enough to do anything about it? Do governments at all levels have any inclination to fund any real work (or is the state DOT just throwing study money to their buddies in the consulting business)? If you can get a solid "yes" to all these, then it's probably worth pushing for. If you live in VA, NC, MI, IL, CA, you have a shot. Elsewhere, it's Don Quixoteville.
jimnorton While I support Amtrak I have given up and being a part of any expansion. Anbody else?
A really good question to ask!
My take is that we have to be very careful what we advocate - and have to be careful to define what winning looks like. Otherwise, we'll just be modern day Don Quixotes.
Do the majority of people want it?
Do they know what it will cost and cost to run?
Do they care enough to do anything about it?
Do governments at all levels have any inclination to fund any real work (or is the state DOT just throwing study money to their buddies in the consulting business)?
If you can get a solid "yes" to all these, then it's probably worth pushing for.
If you live in VA, NC, MI, IL, CA, you have a shot. Elsewhere, it's Don Quixoteville.
Perhaps you should add #4. You need good media contacts in order to publicize your plans and bring that vision to the public. In a state like TN, it has been so long since most of the state has seen passenger service, most folks there have never seen one.
Where's Bucky?
Hey, if you don't like a thread, go post on your Eleanor thread. You may get away with your and the others' personal vendettas against Jim Norton now and others, like Euclid earlier, but it is noticed and will be met. You want to continue your merry ways, but perhaps you need a dose of your own disruption?
jimnortonWhile I support Amtrak I have given up and being a part of any expansion. Anbody else?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Its a conflict of interest with me. An east west route through the heart of Tennessee would serve my hometown of Cookeville as well as Nashville in lieu of my current home of Huntsville, Alabama. What we have there is the well maintained Memphis to Nashville mainline of CSX. But once to Nashville the route would be the Nashville & Eastern. The NERR has commuter rail (the Nashville Star) to Lebanon and is very well maintained as well. But past Lebanon its 30 mph freight and past Monterey the line is removed.
However, the route we advocated was the well maintained NS all the way from Memphis to Bristol. That could happen with little infrastructure improvements vs. rebuilding 2/3rds of the NERR, relaying 18 miles of track and then running over the Franklin Industrial Railroad from Crab Orchard to Harriman and the NS connection. While RPAA's proposal dives down into Mississippi, Alabama and a bit of Georgia it does offer great sercvice to East Tennessee.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
DeggestyQuoting wizlish: "Hey, and not only is he right, but the ex-Southern route does not go anywhere near Nashville, and IIRC misses metro Knoxville too (but does give relatively good access to Chattanooga). " But the NS still goes right through Knoxville...
Yes, I was wrong, bad wrong, but in my partial defense I had corrected it before you had to finish responding to it. (See the map in the quoted report, I think on about page 17, that shows the southern end of the NS improvements; this clearly establishes where Knoxville is in relation to the Bristol to Chattanooga routing Jim was discussing.)
Note that for better or worse, the Tennessee report is advocating a route with minimal interference from freight traffic -- they see the 'missing link' as an opportunity (perhaps to put in higher-speed rail with minimum possibility for traffic interference), and meanwhile from what little I know about NS traffic congestion on the line out of Memphis (they didn't want even a crossing by a Memphis airport-access transit route) there may be problems supporting Amtrak service that can run 'on time'. This is predominantly a single-track route with a considerable traffic in heavy DPU-equipped coal trains mixed with intermodals.
Quoting wizlish: "Hey, and not only is he right, but the ex-Southern route does not go anywhere near Nashville, and IIRC misses metro Knoxville too (but does give relatively good access to Chattanooga). " But the NS still goes right through Knoxville; the Southern station is right at the intersection of West Depot Avenue NW and North Gay Street NW. Is this not in metro Knoxville?
I had not considered a route from Knoxville through Nashville to Memphis, but using a route that is in existence--just as another poster, who mentioned the cities in North Alabama and North Mississippi, did.
Johnny
DeggestyConcerning a Bristol-Memphis train, Wizlish mentioned funding by the state of Tennessee. However, we must remember that about 40% of the 552 miles of route is not in Tennessee, but in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi.
Hey, and not only is he right, but the ex-Southern route does not go anywhere near Nashville (but does give relatively good access to Chattanooga). I was implicitly thinking of the 'northern' route that reaches Nashville via CSX/ex-L&N) and then goes over the plateau -- would it use the TC ROW for part of this? -- and is fully within Tennessee.
Interesting to see whether some joint contributions by the several States involved in the southern route would be 'do-able'. Problem is that I don't think there are very many population centers in all that intermediate distance between, say, Corinth and Huntsville, so there might be a problem with getting Mississippi to pay a 'proportionate' share of the overall cost, particularly when they are already comparatively well-served with Amtrak service to more meaningful demographic regions...
Be interesting to see what would be involved in getting NS to improve their 'corridor' from Knoxville down to Chattanooga... although I have more than a sneaking suspicion that if they're spending all those millions, a very strong claim will have to be made for them to enjoy more Amtrak trains complicating their dispatching. An implicit point about at least some of the 'vanished' link in the north is that it could be more optimized for passenger traffic than the NS 'corridor' improvements are likely to be (e.g., with respect to superelevation and vertical-curve spiraling) ...
If the TDOT plan proposed below were implemented, Bristol to Memphis would be a corridor entirely in the Volunteer state. (see page 20)
http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/publictrans/RailPlan/tasks/task04.pdf
Jim Norton and I live in the same area of the country(mid-southern Tennessee, north central Alabama). It is difficult to watch other places have Amtrak trains when we cannot have them. We do, after all, pay taxes for other people to have this service. Shouldn't something be done so that we can have it too? I rode on the Floridian several times before it was discontinued in 1979(and the Pan-American before that). It was late a lot of times coming south because of Penn Central and later Conrail's bad track of the early seventies.I think it could have been a good service had it's problems been addressed. I think it still could be if it were well run. Chicago to Florida is a lucrative travel market.
Concerning a Bristol-Memphis train, Wizlish mentioned funding by the state of Tennessee. However, we must remember that about 40% of the 552 miles of route is not in Tennessee, but in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. Another poster did note that there are cities in Alabama and Mississippi on the route.
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