Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
This is the 21st Century - nothing is simple. Buckle up Buttercup, it is going to be a wild ride and will challenge your brain cells - 1st to last!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I used to be able to distinguish among lots and lots of models, and at least four or five locomotive builders. Nowadays, "EMD", "GE", and "Genset" usually take care of things.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
When I was a kid I knew every model and who owned what and variations in models. As I grew into adulthood my interests shifted somewhat... I still like trains but I'm nolonger fixated on all the details of the different models. It should be easier today... each builder only has one or two models. Back in the 70s there were more builders, and each builder had more choices.
Doesn't help that with steam, the wheelset was sometimes given a different name depending on the railroad.
For example -- the 4-8-4 "Northern" type was referred to as a "Niagara" on the NYC.
Though, really, it's just a name, and referring to the type by it's Whyte notation (4-4-0, 4-8-4, 2-8-2, etc.) works just as well.
Not really sure about (modern) diesels though ... my knowledge of them runs out somewhere around the FM H-16-44 (and even then, is spotty).
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Johnny
Most of the builders have rathers small product lines, with only a handful of models. The real issue is with the various and sundry rebuilding programs over the years, starting with the IC at Paducah in 1966. Most of them have come up with their own model designations which are similar to the original model.
Meh...as far as I am concerned, out west here we only have two different freight locomotives:
This thingy-wingy:
And this thingy-wingy:
Painted in either orange or yellow or occasionally black, because thats ALL I ever see out here.
Its quite a sad thing for railfanning when the commuter trains offer a wider variety of motive power.
Have fun with your trains
You younguns oughta appreciate improvement. In my day "...out west...commuter trains" meant San Francisco Peninsula service. You now have San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose-Sacramento, Altamont Commuter Express, Albuquerque-Santa Fe, Salt Lake City, Portland, Seattle, Dallas.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
BoydGE C44W-OU812
it used to be simpler like SD40-2 (my favorite)
The Whyte system and individual railroad names for types of locomotives notwithstanding, many roads also had "alpha-numeric" designators for their steam locomotives.
The Pennsy K4s (and its predecessor K-2, K-2a, K-2b and K-3) was a Pacific. So was the CP "G" class, and the Southern Ps4.
The railroads did a similar thing with Diesels. NYC called the RS3 a DRSP-6a (when configured for passenger service).
The designations can really tell you something once you decipher what they are saying. ALCO's Century series locomotives contained the series, horsepower, and number of axles (C-424 - Century, 4 axles, 2400HP).
The "F" in the F3, F7, and F9 originated with the horsepower as well (fifteen hundred). The "E" in the E units meant eighteen hundred (two 900HP prime movers). Of course the HP changed later, but the letter was set by then.
As has been noted, at one time, you could pretty much tell one locomotive from another - there were distinctive "spotting features," although some could be pretty arcane. Where was the sight glass again? \
I liken that to the day when you could tell what make of automobile you saw driving down the road. There might be some minor differences between "sub" models of a certain make, but there was no mistaking a Ford for a Chevy for a Chrysler.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD This is the 21st Century - nothing is simple. Buckle up Buttercup, it is going to be a wild ride and will challenge your brain cells - 1st to last!
Well, I SUPPOSE all those complicated designators make sense if you understand them. Certainly they make sense to the people who come up with them.
Personally, they make no sense to me at all. So I look at it this way...
There's big diesels, bigger diesels, bigger-bigger diesels, dirty diesels (common), clean diesels (less common), smelly diesels (VERY common), ugly diesels (all too common).
Oh well, better than no trains to watch at all.
Same thing with computer chips... used to be simple... 8086, 80286, 80386, 80486, 80... oops change that to Pentium. then Pentium 2, Pentium 3, Pen... oh wait it is now an I2, I3, I4, I5, I7... but is that a dual core, triple core, quad core,... does it have hyper threading or not... is the I7 more powerful than the I5? Depends, by what measure is "powerful" measured in? ARGH!
As for the Whyte system for Steam Locomotive designators... Americans count wheels, Europeans count axles... thus a 2-8-4 is the same as a 142. But how do you list one that has an idler axle between drivers on the same set of cylinders?... I have seen it listed as a 2-2-2-2-4, the first 2, the 3rd 2, and the 4 are the unpowered trucks and the 2nd and 4th numbers are connected by side rods driven from forward mounted cylinders, but you cannot tell from the "Whyte" nomenclature. The Whyte nomenclature also does not give any information as to size, shape, power, or capabilities (or does it have a booster built-in to the trailing truck... what about a booster in the tender truck?.
You can only guess that no leading truck is probably a switch engine, a 2 wheel leading truck is probably a slow freight engine and a 4 wheel leading truck is probably a fast passenger engine. But depending on the age of the loco, it might have been built for nearly any purpose or it might have been pressed into a service it was not designed to do, because the RR was short of the appropriate power, or found out that it worked well in the other service, or was repurposed to some other service because it was still usable, but not needed for the service it was purchased to do.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
I don't know if it's that complicated...an SD-70 is just the grandson of the SD-7. Sometimes the designation will include AC or DC to tell what type of power the traction motors use.
For many GE models, the first letter tells you if it uses two-axle (B) or three-axle (C) trucks. Then there's two numbers, the first two numbers of the engine's horsepower. Then a "dash" designation telling you what generation electronics it's using. A B-30-7 would have two two axle trucks, have 3000 hp., and use 'dash 7' generation electronics.
Starting in the 90's a W designated a 'wide' cab rather than the older narrow cab/nose typical of low nose diesels. So a C-44-9W is a "dash 9" generation GE engine with two six-axle trucks, 4400 hp, and a wide or 'comfort' cab.
chutton01 BoydGE C44W-OU812Well, what did you expect when you use locomotive designations developed by "Van Hagar" it used to be simpler like SD40-2 (my favorite)So you did NOT like the SD40 locomotive then? You do realize that the "-2" designator was applied by EMD to existing models to indicate they had upgraded internal components. Marketing ploy, more or less.
There's some truth to that but, a Dash 2 locomotive has a vastly different electrical system than non Dash 2 units and if EMD had not applied a suffix to the model number many railroads probably would have on their own due to the differences in maintenance procedures and parts ordering....
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
And then there's "Diesel" from the "Thomas the Tank Engine" stories, who introduces himself simply as "Diesel".
"Hell-o, my name is Diesel", he said with an oily voice...
And vsmith, I saw three of those "thingy-wingys" here in Richmond VA today. The second "thingy-wingy" you've got pictured. Those "Great Pumpkins" were a nice change from the CSX "thingy-wingys" I usually see.
Heritage I Dash 9-44CWs aren't a rarity here, but are nice to see.
vsmith, do you mean an SD70ACe? My understanding is that BNSF SD70MACs are rare in the LA basin, mostly sticking to coal trains. UP has a lot of the SD70Ms, though.
Regarding the complaint by the OP, I think that steam locomotives are actually easier, following a common (Whyte) classification, unlike diesels, which has a different naming convention for each builder.
NorthWest Regarding the complaint by the OP, I think that steam locomotives are actually easier, following a common (Whyte) classification, unlike diesels, which has a different naming convention for each builder.
With the same specificity that applied to the Whyte system of classification for steam engines, todays diesels are ever easier - A1A - A1A; B - B; C - C
Anybody got a link to dale's (nanimo73) breakdown from a few years back? it covered this quite well.
(Yes, it should be *have* not *has* in the last post, I made it more concise and failed to proofread.)
Balt, that is true, but you won't find the exact model. This is true with steam, as well, but I think an uneducated observer would have an easier time telling a 4-8-4 from a 2-8-4 than a modern C-C from an A1A-A1A.
Firelock76And then there's "Diesel" from the "Thomas the Tank Engine" stories, who introduces himself simply as "Diesel". "Hell-o, my name is Diesel", he said with an oily voice... And vsmith, I saw three of those "thingy-wingys" here in Richmond VA today. The second "thingy-wingy" you've got pictured. Those "Great Pumpkins" were a nice change from the CSX "thingy-wingys" I usually see.
I wouldn't go too far in extoling the simplicity of the Whyte system. An ATSF 4-8-4 was quite a different locomotive from a TP&W 4-8-4, CV 2-10-4's could not perform like PRR 2-10-4's, few 0-8-0's came close to an IHB U-4a 0-8-0, etc. On the other hand, NKP 2-8-4's from Alco and Lima were almost identical.
Very true.
Back in the day when I was a late teen chasing trains in the mid 70's, GE classification was so simple back then "U-boat on the point!" By the sound and the smoke, it sure sounded like a Pocono and we wanted to be clear among us what was a-coming (yes chasing the EL through PA down through NJ was fun!)
Semper Vaporo Same thing with computer chips... used to be simple... 8086, 80286, 80386, 80486, 80... oops change that to Pentium. then Pentium 2, Pentium 3, Pen... oh wait it is now an I2, I3, I4, I5, I7... but is that a dual core, triple core, quad core,... does it have hyper threading or not... is the I7 more powerful than the I5? Depends, by what measure is "powerful" measured in? ARGH!
You're misremembering how complicated it was.
It was never as simple as Pentium 2 or Pentium 3. There were 14 different Pentium II processors! Then individual chipsets had their subvariants, like the five different kinds of i810. Celeron, P II, and P III were all subsets of the same family and those names were mainly marketing devices. The rat's nest of Intel chipset names, families, and heritages makes the simple EMD and GE naming schemes downright elegant.
Wow I forgot I posted this topic. I don't know why when I start a thread with my Iphone 5c I don't get replies emailed to me?
tree68The Whyte system and individual railroad names for types of locomotives notwithstanding, many roads also had "alpha-numeric" designators for their steam locomotives.
I think most roads had an alphanumeric class system for steam locomotives and, later of course, Diesels. This was another of many differences between NYC and PRR that I noticed when I hired out on the Central a few months before the PC merger.
Although alphanumeric classes were defined, NYC people hardly ever used them; Niagaras, for example, were 6000s -- not Class S-1a, S-1b, or S-2a or even Class S. PRR people always used classes (e.g., K4) or names (e.g., Pacific) and never locomotive numbers to indicate a group of locomotives. Of course, PRR numbering was so chaotic, using numbers would never have worked.
ATSF seems to have always used locomotive numbers for steam locomotive types. Did they even have an alphanumeric class system?
ChuckAllen, TX
cefinkjrAlthough alphanumeric classes were defined, NYC people hardly ever used them; Niagaras, for example, were 6000s -- not Class S-1a, S-1b, or S-2a or even Class S.
With Diesels, it appears the Central wasn't too worried about using engine numbers for classes - The first RS3 (DRSP-6A) was 8223 - probably the next number after the last RS-2.
They might have done better with other models.
tree68 With Diesels, it appears the Central wasn't too worried about using engine numbers for classes - The first RS3 (DRSP-6A) was 8223 - probably the next number after the last RS-2. They might have done better with other models.
Not being a big fan of Diesels, I really can't say much about them. I do remember very clearly though that GP-40s, the hottest power on "The Water Level Route" at the time, were all numbered in the 3000s.
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