mudchicken rdamon I see some old discussions about the tunnel being notched for Double Stacks but the clearance was close enough that containers still hit the sides so it was never used more than a few times. Spelczech's cousin Faktczech needs to ask where this came from? (the new tunnel has never been notched for any reason - plenty large already. The old wood-lined tunnel has been courderoyed/ sealed shut for almost 65 years.)
rdamon I see some old discussions about the tunnel being notched for Double Stacks but the clearance was close enough that containers still hit the sides so it was never used more than a few times.
I see some old discussions about the tunnel being notched for Double Stacks but the clearance was close enough that containers still hit the sides so it was never used more than a few times.
Spelczech's cousin Faktczech needs to ask where this came from? (the new tunnel has never been notched for any reason - plenty large already. The old wood-lined tunnel has been courderoyed/ sealed shut for almost 65 years.)
Saw this on Tango Oscar. The czech's are good people to know
daveklepper I believe the Super-C AT&SF high-speed freight train used the route more than once. When lightly loaded, it was logical because the route is shorter. And this was before double-stacks.
I believe the Super-C AT&SF high-speed freight train used the route more than once. When lightly loaded, it was logical because the route is shorter. And this was before double-stacks.
Mileage from Ellinor, KS to Dalies, NM:
Via Augusta, Mulvane, Wellington, Amarillo, Belen: 780 miles
Via Newton, La Junta, Raton, Albuquerque: 800.5 miles
Shorter doesn't always mean faster, but the Raton Pass could have been since the route via Clovis didn't have the infrastructure it does now, and the Raton Pass line had less traffic (less interference).
mudchicken the new tunnel has never been notched for any reason - plenty large already.
the new tunnel has never been notched for any reason - plenty large already.
Plenty large for...what?
Stacks - up to at least the 9 ft sea cans. (Taller than most to start with when built in 1908)...Still can't get a stack train through the thru-truss bridges further south.
The Summer 2017 issue of Classic Trains contains an article written by Steve Patterson about the piggyback train speed tests run on both routes by the Santa Fe in the late 1960's.
A test run in July 1967 via Raton Pass was conducted to take advantage of the shorter distance, lower amount of train interference, and the 500 miles of 90 mph track. The test run, however, took an hour and 12 minutes longer than the southern route. According to the author, this was due to the heavy head winds encountered across central and western Kansas. These winds didn't affect the streamlined passenger fleet much, but caused a significant amount of wind resistance for the high mounted piggyback trailers. Even with four GE U28CG's, the test train could barely average over 70 mph over the 90 mph territory. As a result, the Santa Fe decided to route the Super C over the southern route.
Very interesting read with some nice graphics and photos taken during the actual test runs.
Vermontanan2Mileage from Ellinor, KS to Dalies, NM: Via Augusta, Mulvane, Wellington, Amarillo, Belen: 780 miles Via Newton, La Junta, Raton, Albuquerque: 800.5 miles
timz If SFe-SP had been approved, about 720 miles via Hutchinson, using RI-SP from there to Vaughn.
If SFe-SP had been approved, about 720 miles via Hutchinson, using RI-SP from there to Vaughn.
I suspect that at the time this merger would have taken place (if approved), most of the SP Golden State route east of Vaughn would have been abandoned or truncated. The Santa Fe had too much online business and of course with their major junctions at Texico, Clovis, Canyon and Avard, the Santa Fe line would have been kept in preference. Also, I believe that by 1983 or so when this was first proposed, the SP still hadn't quite gotten the railroad up to the standards we see today.
If I recall correctly when the merger application was filed, the Golden State route would have been used for boxcar traffic. I assume this meant non-preference traffic.
CSSHEGEWISCH If I recall correctly when the merger application was filed, the Golden State route would have been used for boxcar traffic. I assume this meant non-preference traffic.
You recall correctly. At the time I remember talking to a former RI employee, but not from the GSR area, about the proposed merger. He, too said after it happened the GSR would probably be abandoned-box car traffic notwithstanding.
I believe by 1983 the SP-SSW had pretty much rebuilt the track structure. It was still mostly ABS and train order territory; DTC a few years off, then TWC and later CTC once UP took over SP.
I was looking through a box of old memorabilia last night. I came across a photo copied article from Forbes from the very early 1980s, premerger talks IIRC, about the SP titled: "Doomed?" This was before the SP beginning to have troubles was talked about in railfan circles. I should reread it-it's probably been close to 40 years since I've read it.
Jeff
Distance by itself is not the factor engineers utilize when comparing routes.
Routes are analyzed by comparing grades and curvature. They are converted by engineering calculation to straight and level miles for each route.
Prevailing winds may sometimes be analyzed if there is a significant difference.
jeffhergertI believe by 1983 the SP-SSW had pretty much rebuilt the [ex-RI] track structure.
The 12/83 timetable shows 60 maximum east of Herington, 70 Herington to Liberal, 60 to Dalhart, and 70 to Tucumcari.
By the way: we can't blame people for thinking Ellinor to Dalies is shorter via La Junta. That's what Patterson's article says.
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