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Semi-official Rochelle webcam discussion thread

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Posted by cefinkjr on Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:39 AM

WB coal at Rochelle, IL?  And in a relatively small amount.  That is a puzzler.  Might it have been some other substance?

It might also have been anthracite for some special purpose.  I was surprised recently to learn that anthracite is still being mined.  But there is very little anywhere in the country outside northeastern Pennsylvania.

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Posted by MKT Dave on Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:43 PM

cefinkjr

WB coal at Rochelle, IL?  And in a relatively small amount.  That is a puzzler.  Might it have been some other substance?

It might also have been anthracite for some special purpose.  I was surprised recently to learn that anthracite is still being mined.  But there is very little anywhere in the country outside northeastern Pennsylvania.

I watch the UP baily yard cam, and straight north from where the cam is mounted, is an area where maintenance is done on cars, for a week or so there were a number of gondolas filled with coal. Looking at the cam right now, they are gone. Observed last week where the crews with one gondola lifted using a crane, think they were replacing bogies. I also watched crews take apart a locomotive, had the cab on the ground a few days then it was gone.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:00 PM

How small an amount of coal?  I know that anthracite is shipped west through there in the middle of manifest trains, shipped in RBMN hoppers.

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Posted by blhanel on Saturday, January 28, 2017 8:17 PM

Eight full gons, Carl.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, January 28, 2017 11:46 PM

Those RBMN cars are usually in MPRCB.  I think they go to Norfolk NE.

For awhile about 15 +/- years back, we had a westbound coal move.  It came off the NS and was all NS cars.  I think they were going to a steel mill out west, but it's too far back for me to remember clearly.

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, January 30, 2017 7:56 AM

Some of the RBMN coal was going to Idaho to a company making titanium dioxide.  Something really black being used to make something really white.

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Posted by cefinkjr on Monday, January 30, 2017 10:45 AM

dehusman

Some of the RBMN coal was going to Idaho to a company making titanium dioxide.  Something really black being used to make something really white.

Strange as that sounds it would explain a relatively small amount of coal moving in an unusual direction.  That company in Idaho no doubt had a requirement for coal with some special property and it could only be secured from a limited number of sources.

I was raised in "Coal Country" and was taught very early that, besides the commonly known classifications of anthracite, bituminous, and lignite, coal varies widely within those classifications.  Bituminous can be divided for example as metallurgical (good for smelting) and 'steam' coal (good for feeding boilers).  The steam boats Dad worked on hauled some of the best metallurgical coal in the world (from the Pittsburgh Seam) but were fired with cheaper steam coal from other mines.  Going down the scale of hardness, some folks even object to lignite being considered coal; they'll call it brown coal, just a step above peat.  Old railroaders called it 'mud'.  Smile

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Posted by DS4-4-1000 on Monday, January 30, 2017 10:58 AM

There was (Is ?) an aluminum company in Canada who ordered anthracite from mines on the RBMN.  They would order 2 cars from this mine, 5 cars from this other mine, 4 cars from a third mine, etc. in order to get the exact properties they wanted out of the mix.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 30, 2017 11:08 AM

Not all coals are the same.

B&O's coal pier at Curtis Bay blended coal when it was loaded into vessels.  Depending upon which mines the coal originated from the coal was assigned a Name for each grade.  Each grade had specific metalurgical properties concerning the minerals that were in the spcific grade.  Upon arrival at Curtis Bay 'Coal Surveyors' took samples from the arriving grades and tested them to insure that the grade contracted for was actually being delivered.

When it came time to load the vessels, a loading rotation for the particular vessel was created by buyer of the coal to create the intended overall makeup of the cargo.  The loading rotation might read like -

1 Cherry
2 Blueberry
1 Banana
2 Apple
Repeat until hold is full - It was expected that the 'ocean motion' as the vessel traveled to it's overseas destination would full 'homoginize' the contents of the holds.  (note - holds would be loaded in rotation with partial contents to evenly load the vessel and not have it break in two while being loaded)

The rotation is specified in car loads.  Each named fruit is a different grade of coal.  Each different transshipper had their own naming system for the grades of coal that they handled.  It was normal for transshippers to reconsign and divert (in place) excess cars of complementary grades when the loading of a vessel was completed so as to minimize demurrage charges for excess loading.

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Posted by cefinkjr on Monday, January 30, 2017 3:12 PM

BaltACD

Not all coals are the same.

The rotation is specified in car loads.  Each named fruit is a different grade of coal.  Each different transshipper had their own naming system for the grades of coal that they handled.  It was normal for transshippers to reconsign and divert (in place) excess cars of complementary grades when the loading of a vessel was completed so as to minimize demurrage charges for excess loading.

Very interesting.  Would you happen to know who was specified on the waybills as the consignee?  I'd be interested to know specific consignees if you know any but generic information will do.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 30, 2017 4:59 PM

cefinkjr
BaltACD

Not all coals are the same.

The rotation is specified in car loads.  Each named fruit is a different grade of coal.  Each different transshipper had their own naming system for the grades of coal that they handled.  It was normal for transshippers to reconsign and divert (in place) excess cars of complementary grades when the loading of a vessel was completed so as to minimize demurrage charges for excess loading.

Very interesting.  Would you happen to know who was specified on the waybills as the consignee?  I'd be interested to know specific consignees if you know any but generic information will do.

Consignees were the transshipers.  Island Creek Coal and Consol Energy are two that I can recall - there were others.  The transshippers were subsideraries of the major coal producers.  There was no direct identification to the railroad of who the ultimate user of the shipments would be on the other side of the pond.

Once I got involved in the operation of the C&O Coal Pier at Newport News I found out on the larger ships, they would load 50-60K tons at Curtis Bay the steam down the Chesapeake Bay to load another 80-100K tons before departing for foreign ports.  Baltimore Harbor maintained 39 foot dredged depth in the channels, Newport News had 55 foot deep channels.  Baltimore was a little closer to the mine and had a rate benefit vs. Newport News, thus the transshippers saving nickles and dimes on the Baltimore loading and then filling the vessel out to it's ocean going maximum.

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Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:32 AM

Just saw a single unit EB on UP #2 trailing 198± cars moving right along at about 40 mph.  Not bad for one unit!  Of course, the two units 79 cars back might have been helping some. Confused

 

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Posted by cefinkjr on Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:54 PM

Looks like we need another Spider Web Removal Action.  The angle of the sun right now (1549) and the web makes it really hard to see anything to the left.

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Posted by Brian Schmidt on Monday, February 6, 2017 9:56 AM

Looks clear to me here on Monday morning.

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Posted by MrLynn on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 10:46 AM

Just logged in.  Lens completely occluded by water, 11:47 AM Eastern. :-(

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Posted by mloik on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 11:11 AM

We need a squeegee assist.

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Posted by trainmaster247 on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 11:14 AM

mloik

We need a squeegee assist.

 

 

Not surprising we had some quite heavy rains last night

 

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Posted by cefinkjr on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 12:24 PM

trainmaster247
 
mloik

We need a squeegee assist.

 

 

 

 

Not surprising we had some quite heavy rains last night

 

Perfectly clear at 1217.  Maybe somebody was in the process of cleaning the webcam lense when y'all looked.  If so, I thank them.Bow

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Posted by mloik on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 12:56 PM

Yes, indeed!  Thanks for the clean view.

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 11:35 AM

The Rochelle view may not show the entire signal -- something I would hope Trains remedies (hint, hint).  It is possible that there is an upper signal, which currently is out of the frame, and it was indicating "proceed".

The turnout to UP's Global III is a few hundred yards to the west of the crossing.  Trains entering that yard frequently pause with a portion of the cars still blocking the crossing.  I assume the reason for the pause is that a switch within the yard needs to be thrown before the train can proceed.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 12:29 PM

If the train truly went into emergency, it likely would have been there longer than a few minutes as the train has to be inspected.

All the images I can find of the westward signal show two heads, so an upper signal may well have been displaying a less restrictive aspect.

I don't know as the DS can talk a train through those signals.

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Posted by writesong on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 12:52 PM

Thank you for your responses clarifying what it was I thought I was looking at.

A map of Rochelle plainly shows the Union Pacific yards or sidings, so obviously, that was merely a routine train stop, and not an emergency.

I did notice that when the train started moving again, the FRED was brightly flashing, which I haven't yet seen on any other train passing through the diamond.

Is there a difference in how the FRED functions on different trains?

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Union Pacific Emergency at Rochelle
Posted by writesong on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 2:56 PM

Today, I watched a Union Pacific "Z" train run through the red light and then go into emergency, stopping with the last two cars blocking both BNSF tracks at the diamond.

After being stopped for a few minutes, the train cleared the diamond and continued on its way.

Did anyone else see this event?

What was it that I was watching?

Did I really see what I thought I saw, i.e., a train running through a red signal light?

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 2:56 PM

The new westward signals at the diamond have only one light.  What you see is what you've got for Track 2 westbound.  (The eastward signals have two heads, as they serve as the approach signal for the control point at Dement.  I'm quite surprised at the lack of any more signal heads on the westbound signals, as there should be switches into Global 3 off Track 2 somewhere.)

If there were some sort of infraction, it's virtually impossible to cover up.

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 3:21 PM

The colored panel indicates where the rotary coupler is. This spins in the rotary dumper, allowing the other cars to remain coupled. You don't want two non-rotary couplers to be coupled if you are trying to dump a car.

One car in the consist has two rotary couplers. They are more expensive than regular couplers.

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Coal Train at Rochelle
Posted by writesong on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 5:00 PM

On my computer, I just now watched a coal train passing over the diamond at Rochelle, Illinois.

What does the flash of color painted on the corner of a coal car signify?

Sometimes, there are different colors, and sometimes, the colors are painted in different shapes, with some coal cars facing forward, while other coal cars face the rear (assuming the colors indicate the front of the coal car).

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 5:00 PM

North West is correct about the end(s) with the color being the end(s) with the rotary couplers.  

The statement about every train having a car with two rotary couplers isn't accurate, though.  Plenty of the trains that go through here (and the ones that go through here go through Rochelle) don't have a double-rotary car, even when they have a distributed power unit on the hind end.  It just means that the locomotive on the end with the non-rotary coupler has to be cut away before the car is dumped.

(A long time ago, I think Trainorders.com had a shot of a CN locomotive that wasn't uncoupled from a car being dumped...it wasn't pretty.)

If you should see a train with no effort made to keep the cars with a rotary coupler next to a non-rotary car, it's a safe bet that the destination unloads the cars in some other way.

Operationally, one doesn't want two rotary couplers coupled to each other, either--the pair will likely twist in transit, becoming harder to separate should it be needed.

When you can read reporting marks and numbers (not on this webcam, unfortunately), and have available a list showing whom the marks are assigned to, you can begin to grasp where the cars are going.  Most of the UP coal trains these days go to what used to be the Wisconsin Electric Power Company's plants in Pleasant Prairie and Oak Creek, Wisconsin.  Their cars usually have yellow rotary-coupler ends, on cars with aluminum or black (also aluminum) sides.  A few cars with red ends are showing up, leased to fill out the consists.

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Posted by blhanel on Saturday, February 11, 2017 4:04 PM

Very interesting- just saw a one-unit wonder pulling 80 tanks plus one buffer up front (ethanol?) headed west at track speed on UP #1.  No buffer or DPU on the rear...

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Posted by cefinkjr on Saturday, February 11, 2017 5:45 PM

blhanel

Very interesting- just saw a one-unit wonder pulling 80 tanks plus one buffer up front (ethanol?) headed west at track speed on UP #1.  No buffer or DPU on the rear...

I saw the head end of that train but had to do something else before the train had passed; I assumed it was fewer cars or had one or more DPUs.

That says as much for UP's minimum ruling grade / curvature and their maintenace as it does for the power's TE.  Even empty, 81 cars is a pretty good load; using 20 tons for an empty, that comes to 1,620 tons. (On the PC back-in-the-day, nobody ever let a train, even a local, out of a yard with only one unit; failures were too common.Embarrassed)

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Posted by MrLynn on Saturday, February 11, 2017 6:29 PM

cefinkjr

 

 
blhanel

Very interesting- just saw a one-unit wonder pulling 80 tanks plus one buffer up front (ethanol?) headed west at track speed on UP #1.  No buffer or DPU on the rear...

 

I saw the head end of that train but had to do something else before the train had passed; I assumed it was fewer cars or had one or more DPUs.

That says as much for UP's minimum ruling grade / curvature and their maintenace as it does for the power's TE.  Even empty, 81 cars is a pretty good load; using 20 tons for an empty, that comes to 1,620 tons. (On the PC back-in-the-day, nobody ever let a train, even a local, out of a yard with only one unit; failures were too common.Embarrassed

What does that say about PC maintenance?  Back in the steam era, you wouldn't see two engines on a local.  And I always heard diesels were more reliable. . .

/Mr Lynn 

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