zugmann Ulrich For the most part this is because we've learned not to spot equipment at unsecured/unmonitored locations. Railroads spot cars where the customers want them.
Ulrich For the most part this is because we've learned not to spot equipment at unsecured/unmonitored locations.
Railroads spot cars where the customers want them.
And that's fine... but who pays when the equipment is vandalized on the customers' premises? Nobody.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
UlrichAt what point does it become a problem?
It becomes a problem if they get injured and successfully sue the railroad company.
Ulrich Railroads need to beef up their security, especially for cars containing hazmat...they are now sitting ducks for any type of terrorist activity.
Railroads need to beef up their security, especially for cars containing hazmat...they are now sitting ducks for any type of terrorist activity.
What in the world would possess you to post this?
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
SALfanPut a drone with a laser in each yard, and zap the vandals into Hades as soon as they are detected. Hang the corpses next to the nearest public road with a sign attached saying "This is what we do to taggers.". Word would get around pretty quickly.
That might work!
Around here the vandals don't hide...they're in plain view for all to see. They're not afraid of detection because they know that the police are overwhelmed with more serious crimes. I see them often. I even witnessed one spray painting a control box as a railroad hi railer drove by on an adjacent service road. The vandals seemed unphased and didn't miss a beat. At what point does it become a problem?
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Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Yeah... because switch crews really have the time to sit there and paint up an autorack from top to bottom.
I have my RCO box, my lantern, my switchlists, and my brakestick. Yeah sure - let me carry around a few cases of paint on the ballast.
Real easy to paint these cars that I am moving all around. While being watched by cameras that are in most every yard anymore. And with the trainmasters hanging out in the weeds.
Sure.
Awesome.
PS. and like most "normal" railroaders, after I'm off duty, seeing a railcar usually makes me want to vomit. Sorry, it's just a job for about 99% of us. Are there some vandals in the ranks? Maybe. But the majority of these idiots tagging cars probably couldn't handle a job like we have.
zugmann dakotafredRailroaders also have the advantage of unchallenged access. Not much room in a grip for 56 cans of spray paint, though.
dakotafredRailroaders also have the advantage of unchallenged access.
Not much room in a grip for 56 cans of spray paint, though.
Is it possible that much of the tagging is an inside job? Done by railroaders?
After all, a lot of the "art" is pretty, well, artful; also original and sophisticated. All characteristics that have been associated with railroaders.
Railroaders also have the advantage of unchallenged access.
I worked for the railroad 45 years ago, in the days of "Pedro" and other boxcar artists. (Then, the medium was chalk.) I remember (dimly) a news story of the day, perhaps in the Labor newspaper, claiming Pedro -- of palm tree and sombrero fame -- was probably a yard hand in Kansas City.
Most tagging occurs at private industries, remote sidings way out there and in places that, short of a guard standing watch, can’t be protected…trust me, the taggers have been at this a long time and are well aware of when and where they can do their thing.
Besides, other than here, it really isn’t much of an issue, as long as we can read the car info.
23 17 46 11
edblysard So, short of placing an armed guard on each and every one of these cars, or fencing the entire ROW and placing guard towers every ½ mile, what exactly do you suggest we do to “kept them safe?”
So, short of placing an armed guard on each and every one of these cars, or fencing the entire ROW and placing guard towers every ½ mile, what exactly do you suggest we do to “kept them safe?”
More security at yards, team tracks, and at shipper/receiver locations where cars are left unattended. Yes, that costs money, but so does leaving security to chance (which appears to be the status quo).
We in the trucking industry are not as affected by graffiti even though a nice white 53 ft box trailer also presents a welcoming canvas for would be vandals. For some reason you don't see every second tractor trailer vandalized with a spray can the way a freight train is. For the most part this is because we've learned not to spot equipment at unsecured/unmonitored locations. No guards or fenced in highways required. Sure that doesn't completely eliminate any terrorist threat, but at least its better than nothing at all!
edblysardPainting over the old graffiti just gives the tagger a brand new canvas to work.
Besides, I understand some of the taggers have gotten "smart," (that being a relative term) and have discovered that if they don't obliterate the important data on the car, their creations will last longer.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wow! I will just leave it at that. Wow!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
And who is going to “guard” these same cars as they pass over public crossings, where any half -wit wack job can plant an IED?
Or, for that matter, has available a home- made RPG?
Most TIH cars are, in fact, kept in yards until delivery, (we actually have to sign a receipt for them from the delivering carrier) and by rule, have 24 hours to place the cars in the industry.
When not static in yards, these cars and most haz-mat cars are part of trains known as “Key” trains, and receive priority dispatching and priority yard slots most of the time, the idea is to keep them moving.
We also have to keep a list of where in the yard such cars are, track number and sequence order, and the time and date we received them, the TSA checks these list daily.
While in our possession, TIH cars may not be left in areas that cannot be kept under surveillance and secured.
When we deliver the loaded TIH cars to the industry, they have to sign a receipt for them also.
I mean, the fleet of chlorine cars alone is huge…the LPG fleet is bigger, so…..
Well,
Painting over the old graffiti just gives the tagger a brand new canvas to work.
Balt has most of the answer, it doesn’t pay, plus, besides the railfans and taggers, no one really cares in that it makes no difference to how the car is used or performs.
And, as was pointed out, most taggers work at night or in areas where they are out of sight both from the public and the carrier…providing security in a private industry would cost the carriers way too much, and the plant/industry isn’t going to provide anything beyond the minimum, so…
Last, I don’t think this was a thread started to open the debate as to whether tagging is or is not “art”…that is solely up to the viewer, but more along the lines of “how come this happens and can it be stopped?”…both questions seem to have been answered.
Why are the forum/hosts' policies so hard to locate? One could legitimately claim that there appear to be no policies readily available to either newcomers or old hands to look to for reference or argument.
Why are the policies placed in a sticky in the model fora, but not here where there is at least as much traffic?
DeggestyBut graffiti on objects that move? Does the "artist" think that his work is so good that it should be seen all over the country?
That's the point.
Graffiti anywhere is a sign that the taggers have no respect for other people or their property. In some places, graffiti is used to mark the territory that this or that criminal group claims as its own. But graffiti on objects that move? Does the "artist" think that his work is so good that it should be seen all over the country?
Johnny
Nothing will happen until someone plants a fertilizer bomb under a tank car .Apart from being ugly, graffiti is a sign that there's a serious security problem that needs to be addressed.
The moderators may lock or delete this topic, since forum rules say grafitti is not to be discussed.
dakotafred Would that railroads were as alert to trespassers with paint cans as they are to trespassers with cameras!
Would that railroads were as alert to trespassers with paint cans as they are to trespassers with cameras!
Why we photographers are easy to catch is that not only are we, on average, probably less skilled at hiding, but we do not even want to hide; we want to be in the open where we can see the trains and perhaps photograph them.
Those lower forms that do the tagging are likely much more experienced at covert activities.
They try to be, however, taggers will normally perform their 'art' in out of the way locations - in many instances at customer sidings after business hours. Railfans and their cameras tend to be in accessible and visible areas.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
By painting over the taggers 'art' - how much money does that bring to the carriers bottom line? Carriers will do what is necessary to increase their bottom line financials. Painting over tagging, just to paint over tagging doesn't help the bottom line.
There is no doubt in my mind that if a challenge was made for vandals to "tag" every locomotive in the country it could be done and finished surprisingly quick.
While it is understandable how graffiti has attacked the rail industry it is difficult to understand why nothing meaningful has been undertaken to combat or at least discourage the blight. The railroads have literally become the "poster boy" for promoting graffiti. Its a disgrace.
Solutions? 1) Only paint over a portion of the graffiti. This is called "buffing" and it deflates lots of "tagger" ego. 2) When reapplying data paint down to the sill. Many times it appears the data is reapplied in a manner to preserve graffiti. 3) If coatings are expensive apply on alternating or every third panel of the car. 4) Design a four wheeler with a paint gun allowing a carman to quickly deface graffiti. 5) Design autoracks with bottom panel perforations too large to spray paint, yet, still small enough to stop rocks. 6) Develop car side sensors that send an alert when covered in paint.
There. In six minutes are six ideas....... More than I am aware of being brought forth in the last decade. Surely, with the available resources and knowledge, the industry can match wits with these trespassing vandals. The railroads have been content to be helpless spectators for far too long. I am sick of it as I am sure is the case with many others.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
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