"people can lick hands too" aah Urban legends around the campfire just in time for summer...Gotta go hit the rails this weekend and get out from behind this computer maybe listen to Coast to Coast while at same campfire.
When I read Randy's first post, I was horrified to think that such things are done. But, I am not surprised, for there are many people who think little of doing damage, especially when they can get away with it. I do not doubt that there are urban legends about such activity, but when someone such as Houston Ed tells us of such, I believe it. Why should warnings be sent if they are not founded on reality?
Johnny
Here is a thread on TRAINORDERS forum about this topic. People say it is a hoax / urban legend:
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,408442
There is a feeling that it is a hoax spawned from the razor-blades-on gas-pump urban legend:
http://kfyo.com/box-cutters-hidden-inside-handles-of-gas-pumps-in-lubbock-its-a-hoax/
There is a whole genre of stories about razor blades, box cutter blades, and HIV needles hidden on gas pump hoses and handles.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/mayhem/gaspump.asp
Try 10 cars in a row with the cotter pin removed from the cut lever pivot…excellent way to break a wrist or worse.
Have found wire wrapped around the lower stirrup in the right place to get your foot hung up.
Hand brake wheels wired down, lots of fun stuff like that.
Doubt most of this is a railroader, trust me, we are a pretty creative lot, and if sabotage was the intent, there are a lot of other ways to accomplish it, (none of which I will explain, so Bona’s hobo buddies will have no new ideas) most of this strikes me as stupid crap kids with too much time and too little parental supervision would come up with.
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I'd go along with Boyd on this one. It definitely sounds like a variation of a tactic known as monkeywrenching. Some years ago, a bunch of eco-terrorists took to driving spikes into trees, which had the result of severely injuring several lumberjacks.
I'm not trying to make this thread political. Another group to consider doing stuff like this would be extreme treehugger activists. Not too many years ago there was a small group going around the country setting fire to Hummer vehicles in dealer lots. One of those activists is brother to one of the actresses in the TV show Baywatch. He got life in prison for all the stuff he did.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
I googled "razor blades on railroad cars" and found an incident from last year. An Exxon-Mobil employee found a razor blade taped to the bleed rod in at their facility in Baton Rouge, LA.
Sorry, no hobo verification and I will concede it could've been staged by the same people that staged the moon landings.
Jeff
Such incidents are "hardly reassuring" that the physical security around rail facilities is all that it could - or should - be.
While I don't minimize at all what Randy has described, it does raise the question of, "What's to prevent a more serious form of sabotage ?"
- Paul North.
I would need to know specific instances of these acts of sabotage before I would believe that such acts have occurred. I would not believe an alert published by a railroad company if it only alleged that such acts were happening, but gave no specific details of time, location, and who discovered it; even if it included a photograph of the alleged authentic booby trap.
I find it hard to see any motive if these acts are occurring as frequently, and as widespread, as is claimed. Typically, disgruntled employees target their animosity toward the company, not the fellow employees. And if an employee does have a grievance toward another employee, setting indiscriminate booby traps seem like an unlikely way to target a specific person. And it also seems that grudges rising to that level of retaliation would be infrequent. Trespassers could set these types of traps just as malicious mischief, or even retaliation against trainmen, but again, I would not expect it to be that common.
I find it easier to see a self-serving motive for a safely or security organization to stage these sabotage acts for photos and then offer them as examples of acts that are implied to have actually occurred and/or occur more frequently that they actually do.
Obviously these acts of sabotage would documented by a police report. Let’s see the police reports, so we can judge how often and to what extent this is happening.
We get those safety notices, too. I'll have to look at them to see which alphabet agency is putting them out.
I wonder at times if these are actual incidents, or staged photos to keep us on our "safety, vigilant, awareness" toes. Maybe I'm just the skeptical type... who knows. Not like the pieces of railroad equipment being targeted are any secret.. all used by both RRers and industry personnel. Also anyone with any interest in railroads know (or can find out) which pieces of apparatus are essential for the proper operation of the railroad equipment utilization process... uh...yeah.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Bonas We don't have verification of this. This post is almost as bad as CP buying Iowa Pacific or Iowa Northern Railway. My hobo friends would have reported this on other forums.
We don't have verification of this. This post is almost as bad as CP buying Iowa Pacific or Iowa Northern Railway. My hobo friends would have reported this on other forums.
Yes, you are quite right. Just because I work for a railroad, have seen safety alerts (with photographs) of some of the things described, and Randy works for a railroad doesn't mean these things are verified until your hobo friends say it is so.
While it is most likely that it is a disgruntled railroader (or former railroader) or someone connected with the industry, it could also be a disgruntled/misguided railfan. There is an awful lot of information on all aspects of railroading available out there. Enough available that someone wouldn't have to have a connection to railroading to know where trainmen grab or step.
Except that this post is from someone in the industry not an outsider or a writer of fiction . These are not events that are local , the railroads DO share information about issues like this , I get safety alerts on a regular basis and they are posted for ALL employees. I do not need to provide verification to you or your hobo friends who are on my list of possible suspects.
Randy Stahl In the last few years there has been an increase in freight car and locomotive vandalism. Much of the vandalism is designed to injure railroad workers. Some examples include single edged razor blades taped to a bleed rod, stiff wire wrapped around a coupler designed to put out the eye of a brakeman coupling hoses, stiff wire wrapped through grab irons and ladders designed to ensnare an unsuspecting switchman, grab irons cut through 95% designed to break and make a switchman fall off a car and razor sharp steel hammered into the tops of car knuckles designed to rip open the hand of a switchman that reaches in to open a knuckle. (ad infinitum) I cannot believe that these are the actions of a untrained vandal (s)... I am beginning to believe that other professional (albeit disgruntled) railroaders are doing this. The fact that other railroaders may be responsible bothers me to no end. Randy
In the last few years there has been an increase in freight car and locomotive vandalism. Much of the vandalism is designed to injure railroad workers. Some examples include single edged razor blades taped to a bleed rod, stiff wire wrapped around a coupler designed to put out the eye of a brakeman coupling hoses, stiff wire wrapped through grab irons and ladders designed to ensnare an unsuspecting switchman, grab irons cut through 95% designed to break and make a switchman fall off a car and razor sharp steel hammered into the tops of car knuckles designed to rip open the hand of a switchman that reaches in to open a knuckle. (ad infinitum)
I cannot believe that these are the actions of a untrained vandal (s)... I am beginning to believe that other professional (albeit disgruntled) railroaders are doing this. The fact that other railroaders may be responsible bothers me to no end.
Randy
Randy,
Like BaltACD, I'm curious if this is a local phenomenon. I've not heard of such from any of my rail friends that this is occurring in my area. I'm under the impression this is being done by people who know just where to place such things in a way they will cause injury to the unsuspecting. I wouldn't think vandals (taggers) would know where to place these objects to cause the most damage.
Could well be someone with a grudge against either the railroad or the union.
Heaven knows the job is hazardous enough without booby traps being strategically placed.
Norm
Yes,it bothers me too. I hate to see vandalism, especially when the intent goes beyond damaging equipment to injuring people who are simply trying to earn a living.
How closely are railroaders tracked? Are they pretty much free to roam wherever on the property while on duty, or are they required to remain within limits? How closely are they supervised while on duty? Are their surveillance cameras at yards?
The rampant spread of graffiti over the years is a pretty sure indication that all railroad equipment is readily accessible to anyone, even for extended periods. Some of the "murals" I've seen can't be done in 20 minutes or even in an hour. Maybe that needs to change..
As an ordinary guy there is nothing I can do about these acts, Randy.
But the things you describe are clearly designed to injure innocent people. Furthermore, they are done by people who have learned how railroad equipment is used. This does suggest people who do have some connection with railroading. And it is also genuinely sociopathic behavior. Objectively, if a dismissed employee believes he has been treated unfairly he has no reason to try to harm other employees. But who ever has done these things has learned to do them.
Both railroad companies and railroad unions have a common interest in finding whoever has done these things and bringing them to justice. I sure hope it happens. After all, the victims really are just like me. Although I've never worked for a railroad I am still a human being who can be injured in the same way these victims can.
John
PS. I would call these things booby traps: Devices intended to kill or harm innocent people.
Every so often we receive safety alerts to be on the look out for the things Randy has described. I don't know of anyone in my area who has actually come across anything. I haven't seen one of those notices in a while, but I don't recall that ours mentioned any specific areas, or even specific railroads, where it was happening at. Just watch out so you don't get hurt.
When I was a conductor, a couple of times I did find a car with a broken stirrup when climbing on. Both times were when yarding a train. I reported them to the yardmaster, so they could be repaired. I just assumed they broke because of normal wear, but now I wonder after reading Randy's post.
Is this vandalism generalized around the country and occuring in a localized area? To date I have not heard any mentions of these kinds of vandalism in my area of responsibility.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I would opine that most of the vandalism that we can see from trackside is done precisely so we can see it from trackside. The vandals want to make a name for themselves and do so with spray paint. They've even learned (in some cases) to leave dimensional and other important information untouched because their "artwork" will last longer that way.
On the other hand, Syracuse just had an incident where a "kids" game went awry. The game is called knockout, and the idea is to ambush someone and knock them out. In the incident in question, a ten year old delivered the punch, but wasn't successful, so his friends helped him. The victim died of his injuries.
One concern with charging the kid is that in some circles such charges/convictions/etc actually increase streed "cred." In fact, the publicity surrounding the attack has probably elevated the kid's status already.
So, while the disgruntled employee angle deserves investigation, we can't rule out gang members and the like looking for some street cred. That someone suffers as a result apparently is of no consequence to them.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
If I were conducting the investigation, I would obtain a list of recently discharged or disciplined employees and disgruntled union organizers. Co-ordinate that list with recent locations where the sabotaged stock has been parked, unattended. Where those two lists intersect is a good place to start.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
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